DAY 1 - Question 1: The Fear of Counting Days.

[Terra_48]

Hi everyone-


First, I want to thank the folks here for providing a fantastic website, and a safe forum for those of us trying to become better people. I told myself that I would try on my own - and if I don't succeed, I'll start a journal here. I managed 17 days, which to me was remarkable. But now, here I am - back at Day 1, and starting a Journal.


I'm a guy in my 30's with a lot to be thankful for: a loving family, an incredibly sweet and supportive SO, and a great career. I love hiking and traveling, I care deeply about people, I'm pretty outgoing, and I know how to laugh and enjoy myself.


But all is not as it seems. There is a hole inside me. Despite all of the above, I spend a lot my time feeling empty, even hating myself. For me PA is all-consuming and absorbing; when in its grip I feel numb, a strange sense of safety. The irony is that it hurts me more than anything else.


And I'm ready to let it go. My goal is no more P, and I think for a while that will mean no more MB as well.


So I'd like to start by posing some questions, so that I may learn from those who have been through it.


QUESTION 1: How do you overcome the fear of counting days? I think one of my fears with stopping PMO is the weight of counting days. One the one hand, it seems necessary, and it's a great motivator as the days build up. But at the same time, it also seems like a burden - falling from 17 days seems a lot less painful than falling from 100 days, or a year. On top of that, with time I start shifting from "I don't want this in my life" to "I may never have it again," which feels like a shift from freedom from something to deprivation. I wonder if a major reason we sabotage ourselves is that we fear the "Burden of More Days" and the sense of "Indefinite Deprivation." Please don't get me wrong - it's MUCH more of an accomplishment than a burden, and the sense of deprivation is nothing more than an addictive circuit in panic mode. But still these things seem to take their toll, for me. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!


Again, thank you, all of you who make this place what it is.


The journey begins!


Neil

[still_trying94]

Hi Neil. Sounds like we're very similar people. I too am in my 30's with a great family and career and for some reason, I have this addiction too. I love the way you describe it as a hole inside you. That really nails it.

I have gone back and forth with counting days. I did it at first and then decided to quit counting. Falling back to zero from 30 was very discouraging. I recently just fell from 20-something. Its very hard. I decided to try and count again this time around. I thought it would motivate me more. I also try to look at the big picture when I get discouraged. If I go 30 days free, slip up one day, and then go 10 days, I look at that like 40 out of 41 days free. It works for awhile. I'm starting to learn that whatever you do, you will get discouraged if you slip. You have to figure out what works for you and know that it will probably only work for awhile. Be ready to switch up your philosophy. Whatever works to keep you going!

By the way, welcome to TTF!

[fightingdefeat]

Welcome to TTF!
I know what you mean about hurting ourselves through PA. It amazes me that I have been able to rationalize so many times that it won't affect me or hurt me, but it does. I hope that you can find the support you are seeking here and best of luck as you start this next step in recovery! I just found this site a few weeks ago and have found lots of strength and support.

QUESTION 1: How do you overcome the fear of counting days? I think one of my fears with stopping PMO is the weight of counting days. One the one hand, it seems necessary, and it's a great motivator as the days build up. But at the same time, it also seems like a burden - falling from 17 days seems a lot less painful than falling from 100 days, or a year. On top of that, with time I start shifting from "I don't want this in my life" to "I may never have it again," which feels like a shift from freedom from something to deprivation. I wonder if a major reason we sabotage ourselves is that we fear the "Burden of More Days" and the sense of "Indefinite Deprivation." Please don't get me wrong - it's MUCH more of an accomplishment than a burden, and the sense of deprivation is nothing more than an addictive circuit in panic mode. But still these things seem to take their toll, for me. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

Honestly, the fear part? I do not know. I would say, weigh the pros and cons as to count or not to count. Then if the pros outweigh the cons for you, go for that. Reasoning it out in that way can be fear busting.

In regards to day counting in general... I was just asked this question in a PM yesterday as a matter of fact. Right now I am on the "counting days" method. Not sure if it a method or not, but I find it helpful personally. Here's the way I see it. Ultimately, it is not really the days that matter, it is the daily and progressive victory not calculable. Recovery is such a tangled process that is not as simple as "staying clean"... We end up working through a lot of our character flaws and dig up past events and emotions. Victory is not achieved a magical "day" such as at day 100, 365, 730 or some other mark. So if in counting days you are somehow waiting for a sense of completion, I don't know if that day will come and day counting might not to be helpful for you. Maybe those who have been very successful would say otherwise, but to me, it's a daily battle. So, day counting might somehow create a false sense of completion and lead to failure eventually.

Also, like you say, day counting perhaps is not wise in that it may create a burden. In this case though, I would say it is individual. For me, it is a burden in that, if I were to crash tomorrow, that would be nearly 20 days of "progress lost" -- and that hurts. But would it hurt if I wasn't counting the days? Most certainly it would! As to infinite "deprivation"... Well, that is tough. Like you say, it's our addictive circuit going into panic mode! But I don't know if day counting necessarily would trigger that. Maybe individually it could.

For me, it is not burdensome or necessarily fear inducing. Rather, it is the constant and daily reassurance that I can visibly see days and time growing between me and what I once was pursuing. It is a safety net of sorts that I can come on here when I feel tempted and see my progress. I can see how on that one day I was tempted, but made it through. I can see how on the one day I gave into MB even though I told myself I was abstaining. What did I learn from those moments, on those days? How did I end up implementing them in the coming days? What is my day to day struggle? I know you can get this without directly counting days, but I think it is helpful in most regards. I'm a type A personality and like numbers, dates, and keeping track of things... so maybe this is more helpful for me than some.

Ultimately, I say go with your gut instinct on how it will help you/hurt you. My personal experience has been that it's been helpful though. Hope that all makes sense! :)

Stay strong!

[Terra_48]

Thanks, StillTrying!

I think that's very true - the "be prepared to switch up your philosophy" part. A strange thing in life is that moods and interests can change rapidly. It's why so many people have a piece of dusty exercise equipment in some hidden corner of their home. I guess if you really want something to happen, you need to be prepared for things to change and have multiple approaches ready.

I'm still thinking about the Counting Days thing. Part of it may be denial on my part - like the recovering drinker who thinks he can have a beer on July 4th. You know, part of it may be that we've been able to get away with it for so long (and still have a career, friends, and loved ones). We know this is hurting us, we know this can hurt those around us, and we want it behind us. But it's so easily accessible that it's hard to protect from the shifts in moods. I'm guessing that you don't feel this way, but I think you deserve a lot of credit for holding onto your resolve despite the setbacks. Do you think rebelling against a sense of "indefinite deprivation" is a part of it for you?

-Neil / Terra_48

[Terra_48]

Thanks, FightingDefeat -


I really like what you say here:


"Ultimately, it is not really the days that matter, it is the daily and progressive victory not calculable. Recovery is such a tangled process that is not as simple as "staying clean"... We end up working through a lot of our character flaws and dig up past events and emotions. Victory is not achieved a magical "day" such as at day 100, 365, 730 or some other mark. So if in counting days you are somehow waiting for a sense of completion, I don't know if that day will come..."


We like to think about completing things and putting them behind us, checking off the "To Do" list. But perhaps, like many of the most important things in life, this is not about completing something but about process. Love is not about what we did for someone in the last 30 or 60 days, but about a process that lasts indefinitely - it's inherently never complete. We can check off writing a letter to a friend from the To Do list, but what's important is not the letter itself but the long-term renewing friendship. To the extent that what we are doing here is about loving ourselves and becoming more whole, it's also about process. Counting days may be necessary because a slip-up can lead to really hurting the process of loving ourselves, as in any addiction.


Regarding my original question, interesting that I didn't really think of the question as being whether to count days, but rather, how to keep the burden of counting days from subconsciously sabotaging us… realizing that counting days is not the goal but the strategy may really help.


-Neil / Terra_48

[AnxiouslyEngaged]

"not the goal but the strategy" - I really like that. You could actually say that about a whole lot of pieces of this process of recovery. I was going to say that the only essential reason to count days is that it helps you see patterns. For instance, when I first started coming here and posting, I had over 40 days clean, then relapsed. Then I had something over 30. Then 20, then 10, then just a week. Finally, I went back and looked at that pattern, and realized that all the time I kept telling myself, "I'm doing better, I'm fine, my efforts are good enough because I'm improving overall"--those were becoming lies. And seeing that helped me get back on track to make some progress again.

You're right. There is no task you can check off your to-do list. It is a process, a goal of changing deep down and permanently, of improving and healing your actual character. PA, after all, is not the problem, it is a symptom of deeper problems. Addiction simply prevents us from rooting out the true problems. We fight it to gain enough sobriety to start exploring those buried beliefs and experiences that are the real problems, and begin to adress them.

Good luck, Terra_48. You're in a good place here. Don't ever think you have to do this yourself, because you can't. That's what we're here for.

AE