Teemo's Journal

[maggie]

Teemo,

I haven't followed your journal for a long time, but I remember that you were quite successful in conquering this problem.

I just read your response to BestShot about his recovery ( Jan ) and had to comment on how meaningful your post is.

You bring up a tricky problem with p: We can actually find some "benefit" in it, when it becomes connected to our real sexual relationship in our marriage. Yes, it contributes to arousal, and, yes, arousal is good. But it is poisonous to our loving relationships with our wives. It puts the images and the lust at the center of things, making our physical relationship more and more selfish. The stimulation we find in p may send us looking for satisfaction with our wives, but it cheapens our lovemaking terribly.

I know you have made the decision that p is wrong and freedom is what you want. I think you will find along the way to recovery that the good we may see in p is a product of our own effort to rationalize our use of it.

I wish every single psychologist & therapist that considers giving pornography use a ' limited pass ' could read your post. I've read about a few that will give a limited 'ok' for a couple to use photos or material to rev up their physical relationship!! I doubt there are any psychologists who completely approve of... or recommend making pornography a part of any relationship, but the few that give it a limited ' ok ' have always confused me.

I couldn't understand how something so raunchy, that degrades females and turns intimacy into a voyueristic performance.. could ever help in building any close and loving relationship. If something is wrong.... it is just wrong. Whether it's used a little or a lot.

Thank you for your wisdom and for the concise way you explain this emotionally confusing dilemna.

[Mac]

Teemo
The peice of your post that Maggie mentioned here is just so bang on. Thanks Maggie for bringing this to my attention.
I think all of us here have learned that there is absolutely no place for P of any kind in a healthy intimate relationship. To bad a lot of the professionals weren't up to speed on this subject. It is actually pretty scary how people are being guided by some therapists.
Great thoughts guys.

Mac

[Teemo]

Thanks, Maggie. Thanks, Mac. I don't think I have a real understanding of this whole question, but I sure have experience. Has my use of p and mb contributed anything to my life, to my my marriage, to my well-being? Nope. Nothing. The stimulation I experienced was completely selfish. It did nothing for me except isolate me from others, and teach me to keep looking to sexual stimulation for a sense of comfort, safety, and satisfaction. It never gave me what I really needed. And now, with all I know about the twisted path I was on, I still crave it.

What a losing game! What a cheap substitute for real life! Yes, the experts can debate how bad p really is. I say let them fight about it all they want. For me, it's poison. It made me sick. If I want to be healthy, and live my life fully, I need to stay far away from it.

[no_excuses]

Interesting subject. I actually have a caveat that is a differing opinion. For addicts like us, porn is poison, pure and simple, because it separates us from our partner and takes us out of the relationship, not to mention a slew of other damage. However, for someone who is not an addict, I can see how erotica could bring a couple together sexually due to the shared experience of watching something "naughty", the lessening of shame about sex (from watching others doing it), seeing sex explored in new ways, etc. So a healthy couple could potentially gain benefits from the occasional image/video that they both found erotic. Where it goes awry is when one person starts having sex with the fantasy rather than the partner. And since few people are going to be honest about crossing that line, I think psychologists are maybe being disingenuous in calling it safe and helpful.

[burnedout]

for someone who is not an addict, I can see how erotica could bring a couple together sexually due to the shared experience of watching something "naughty", the lessening of shame about sex (from watching others doing it), seeing sex explored in new ways, etc.

As far as addictive behavior goes, I just wonder if my brains have been scrambled by adverse experience, or if I was born this way. I am still having a hard time accepting the fact that I can't do something "normal" people can do, if it is indeed a fact. However, I have watched people in bars transform into Mr. Hyde while I'm still the same old same old at the end of the night. With that experience behind me, I can see that I'm not alone, and that there's more than one way to fall into the rabbit hole.

[no_excuses]

As far as addictive behavior goes, I just wonder if my brains have been scrambled by adverse experience, or if I was born this way.

That's a whole second interesting subject. I've thought about that too. Why can I take or leave a drink, yet an alcoholic goes right off the cliff? Why can many people watch erotica or porn without it turning into addictive behavior, yet I couldn't? I don't think we're born this way, I think events happen in our lives early on that create needs, and when we start to fill those needs in the wrong way, it sends us down the path of reinforced behavior. I personally don't feel that bad about not being able to do something someone else can. I don't feel abnormal, after all everyone is unique. This is our particular challenge, born of weakness and bad decisions, but slowly being rectified. ;-)

[HopefulsRock]

Wow Teemo, this statement you made is so sad and so true...

I don't think I have a real understanding of this whole question, but I sure have experience. Has my use of p and mb contributed anything to my life, to my my marriage, to my well-being? Nope. Nothing. The stimulation I experienced was completely selfish. It did nothing for me except isolate me from others, and teach me to keep looking to sexual stimulation for a sense of comfort, safety, and satisfaction. It never gave me what I really needed. And now, with all I know about the twisted path I was on, I still crave it.

I want to change just a few words to show how closely it parallels another addiction...

I don't think I have a real understanding of this whole question, but I sure have experience. Has my use of cocaine and crack contributed anything to my life, to my my marriage, to my well-being? Nope. Nothing. The stimulation I experienced was completely selfish. It did nothing for me except isolate me from others, and teach me to keep looking to cocaine & crack stimulation for a sense of comfort, safety, and satisfaction. It never gave me what I really needed. And now, with all I know about the twisted path I was on, I still crave it.

Sometimes the truth hurts but it hurts more if we don't learn from it...!!!

Thanks Teemo for teaching me just a little more.

[Teemo]

Acceptance. I have never liked the word. When someone talks about how we should learn acceptance, it always sounds like giving up, or settling for things the way they are, instead of hoping for something more or something better.

I think there is a better way for me to understand acceptance. It is more like receiving something. When a package is delivered to my door, I accept it. When someone gives me praise or advice, I accept it. When I get my paycheck, I accept it.

What I need to learn is to accept my life that way. It is given to me each day, and I need to receive it. When life gives me good things, I am grateful. When life gives me bad things, I receive them, too. I accept them. They came to me, and they are mine.

The people in my life give me pleasure and they give me pain. I receive it all. I accept it all.

I can learn to accept myself, too. This is the person I am. I accept all of me, what I like and what I don't like. I reject nothing.

I think perhaps this is what acceptance is supposed to be. I know there are people I admire who seem to do it easily, while I feel like I struggle with it.

[Letting Go]

Acceptance. I have never liked the word. When someone talks about how we should learn acceptance, it always sounds like giving up, or settling for things the way they are, instead of hoping for something more or something better.

…

I can learn to accept myself, too. This is the person I am. I accept all of me, what I like and what I don't like. I reject nothing.

I think perhaps this is what acceptance is supposed to be. I know there are people I admire who seem to do it easily, while I feel like I struggle with it.

Teemo,

I agree with you that accepting acceptance has always been hard for me. I don’t want to accept pain, and because of my upbringing, I have a difficult time accepting pleasure sometimes too. Accepting what life has to give you with equanimity is very difficult for me, but now in the past year or two it has become easier for me to do. I admit to some of my family and friends that I have had this problem of accepting what happens, so now I can make a joke and about it with them “yes, I am trying to accept this fun vacation … I am trying to have fun!”

We both know that acceptance is not about accepting life the way it is without trying to change it. The difficulty is knowing what you can change in your life, what you can’t change, and what is going to be too much of a hassle to change that it is just not worth it. This is one of the most difficult things for me about acceptance, knowing when it is worthwhile to try and change things. Many times I have caught myself trying to do something that nobody else would care or see, and I, or my wife, has to point out that I am simply chasing my tail over something that doesn’t matter. I just need to accept that this is the way it is and perfection for this little thing in life is not necessary.

Anyway, good post.


Letting Go

[Teemo]

Thanks, Letting Go. I like what you said about perfection. Why do we feel this need for things to be perfect? Why can't we accept things - and people - as they are? Why can't we accept ourselves as we are? Life is too short to waste our time being upset about things that are not perfect and don't have to be perfect.