never really felt that I am a PA

[JohnnyD]

So.. As requested by my SO, here I am. It was less of a request and more of an ultimatum; but nevertheless, I am here. I have never really felt that I am a PA, but as she says "If I am not, than I could only have hurt her in this way as an evil person". The last nine years have flown by and now most of our time is consumed with bitterness from baggage past and pain from fights of old. Friends have moved on and careers have not come through as planned. All of the good things in our life have been tarnished and degraded because of our (my) problems. Our love for one another remains underneath, and our three children have us unconditionally; but this battle is a losing one for everyone involved. My wandering eye has destroyed her and our happiness. Insecurity and Jealousy consume her and the backlash of anger usually falls upon my head. Most often I just want to say **** it, this isn't worth the strife. I don't even like to watch porn anymore. She makes it a guilty pleasure; so I almost never do. But there are times when I have been beaten up so emotionally that I will use it to feel better; and the vicious circle continues. But this circle has come to encompass everything in her eyes. MB doesn't even matter. PG-13 movies, music, festivals, friends.. at every corner I am bombarded by her backlash to the point where I can't even go out with her without having to anticipate other women and make sure that I am not even able to look in that direction. I understand the P, but %$#&! I am ****ing sick of this &%$#! The ideal of a family has always outweighed my being able to leave mine, but how can this ever be resolved? What now? Keep a web journal for a support group(TTF)? get a consoler to get better? The past will always be there and the pain will remain. There has been so much pain dished out from both of us.. Is this really an addiction? Is every person that looks an addict? Are we destined to live with this forever? WTF! We're in too deep. I am here for her, but do I really want to live like this? I love my family, but I am not happy here. I have read others sappy &*%$ and she expects me to do the same, but thats not me. I try to do all the little things for her and I gave up porn for her, but it is always in the back of her head and mine. Trust is gone and nothing will ever change that. There is always something to find, or some disclosure I haven't made. Or some lie that will never be forgiven. This isn't much of a confession. I haven't vented in a while. I know I have hurt her immensely in her mind (Porn is Cheating), but I have never actually been with another woman, or chased other women. There have been others I have talked to, but I was always talking with them about her. I feel I have given up so much for her. Everything. Even now, I have started to pursue some of my old dreams and desires, and even that has turned her anger to chose desires or her. Leave or Stay. I have allowed her to control my life and now I feel empty. shame. defeat. lonely. lost. angry. hurt. vengeful. defiant. but mostly sadness... for her, myself, and my children... I want to stay, and she wants me to change, and I will do everything for her that she asks or requires; but I don't know anymore. I am not in a position to leave. but I no longer know for sure that I can stay.

[chasman62]

I am just going to tell it to you straight as I see it. You don't have to accept any of it, maybe you don't want to hear it today, or tomorrow, or next month...but maybe just maybe something will penetrate through that wall of anger that fills every word of your post.

So.. As requested by my SO, here I am. It was less of a request and more of an ultimatum; but nevertheless, I am here.

Let's start there. You are here under duress. You don't want to be here, you don't think you need to be here. She made you do this and you resent it. Hell, this place is full of saps and losers right (you say it yourself in your post). No place for you. That my friend is what is called DENIAL. DENIAL is the enemy of all addicts and it takes many forms, all of which are expressed in that vitriolic screed that you wrote.

RATIONALIZATION/MINIMIZATION: Basically there is nothing wrong with what I am doing, or I deserve this:

I have been beaten up so emotionally that I will use it to feel better

I have never actually been with another woman, or chased other women

BLAME: Shifting responsibility to other people. It's your SOs fault that you behave this way. In AA they say "You would drink too if you had a wife like mine":

at every corner I am bombarded by her backlash

life have been tarnished and degraded because of our (my) problems

I don't even like to watch porn anymore. She makes it a guilty pleasure

ANGER/HOSTILITY: Pretty self-explanatory. Used to push people away or to avoid dealing with the real issues:

&%*$! I am ****ing sick of this $%#&!

**** it, this isn't worth the strife

I have read others sappy %$&# and she expects me to do the same, but thats not me

SELF-DELUSION: This isn't really a problem. I can handle this and stop/start whenever I want:

I have never really felt that I am a PA

Is this really an addiction?

Simple fact is only you can decide if you want to accept that you are an addict, that you are powerless to control it, that you want to be free of it....FOR YOU. If you dont believe that and dont want to deal with that you will never ever succeed. That is ACCEPTANCE. Step 1 in recovery.

Perhaps your relationship is too destroyed to be repaired, but perhaps not if you really want it to be. There are many of us on here who reached the brink and were able to step back from it. I dont believe that any case is hopeless. It has to come from within you though...a desire to change...I hope you find that.

You wont find judgment here just a group of people who have walked in your shoes and who want to help people walk that journey.

Again it is your prerogative to reject every word I have written but I hope you wont and I wish you the best in reaching the first step towards a better future.

Chas

[JenMac]

Hey JohnnyD!
Welcome to TTF! It seems you may not be happy to be here but it really is a great place to be for PA and for the recovery of your relationhip! There are many here who have experienced what you are experiencing both in the P and in the unravelling of your marriage.
I am sorry that there has been so much hurt in your relationship. It is sad and frankly, rather tragic, when there are 3 children involved.
If you are serious in your attempt to save your relationship, then you will read what others post and try to learn from it. If your wife has found it helpful to be here, then it seems only respectful for you to at least try to understand what it is she might be gaining from being here.
As an SO, I can tell you from my own experiences that this situation we find ourselves in is so very hurtful. I can't begin to explain to you the depth of the sorrow we experience. If you read the other SO journals here, you will see that everything your wife is experiencing is what all of us have experienced and the feelings are common to all. That is very telling. This is not just your wife who feels this way, it is all of us! Doesn't that say something to you?
If you do decide to committ to trying to save your relationship, you are right, it will be a long hard journey. There are many here who can attest to that. But we can also tell you that we are reaching for a better relationship, a better connection and a happier life. It is up to you to decide if you are up to it!
All the best!
Jenn

[Missingus]

JD,
Just wanted to drop in, I noticed that your journal finally posted... I wanted to tell you thank you. I know this was hard for you and you don't want to do it, that's why it means so much to me. I know at times, all we have been through feels overwhelming. I know because I feel it too. There is hope, I love you, but I do hurt. Regardless, I just wanted to welcome you here and I pray that you are able to find some encouragement here, there are so many examples to learn from ... It really has been a godsend for me. So thank you for taking this step, thank you for taking a chance.

[JohnnyD]

So I'm still here, and I am still angry. I got the first post back from chass straight as he sees it full of my quotes. If I wanted to disect my words I would have.. but it was a rant. It pissed me off. I am generally pissed off. You don't know me or what I've been through, but hey; lets just generalize here and say your an addict! Rationalization.. Blame.. Anger.. Self-Delusion.. Well Chass, You're right in the fact that I don't want to be here. And whether or not I am an addict is not really a concern. what is a concern, is that I have let down my wife in the past, lost her trust, and have generally been unhappy for some time now. But whats worse is that she is even more unhappy with me and makes sure that I know it; usually by putting me to the grindstone. If you really took a look at what I said, you might have seen that I am here honoring her wishes because I love her and don't want to leave her behind. I want to be here for my family, not just selfishly run away from my pain for my own happiness. I know my words were full of anger; but giving me the textbook definition of it for the sake of Acceptance into step one of recovery doesn't help me. but that's just me.
On a lighter note, thank you jenn for your response. I do understand how difficult and painfull relationships can be. I will try to push my anger aside and learn and share with others. Until then..

[mell]

JD,

I can understand Chas's points. I felt much the same when I read your first post, only because I saw myself when I first started my journey to recovery.

Whether an addict or not, we have done things that have hurt our partner. The only way to move on is to accept and start the healing. This is the opinion shared by most of the PA's here.

I hope you get some positive value out of your time here. Wishing you the best.

[astander]

You sound like my husband, and Missingus sounds like me. :)

So I will say, that you guys need to find a skilled counselor as soon as possible. My husband and I just went to our 2nd session together with a therapist he's been seeing since July (one I arranged for him, and he is going to "for me.") After the session was over, he sarcastically said "well, that was productive." And I'm sure it doesn't seem productive to him, but there's alot of crap between us and it will take time to wade through all of it. And he acknowledges that.

What came out of our session today was the therapist asking us how we interact about other issues besides the porn. And all these issues came out, ones we have had the exact same scripted argument about 10,000 times we re-enacted for the therapist, and the therapist took it all in and that was about as far as we got today. But I would imagine next time there will be something productive to say about how we can be better together, and get past some of the things that have never been resolved.

Anyway I really think that you will need help getting past all this. Don't try to argue through everything by yourselves, it's just too much.

And one final thing -- clearly none of us know the two of you but I feel like maybe your wife is trying to take a step towards you and will try to let go of the anger and resentment. So maybe you could try to take a step towards her too, and forgive her also for the arguing and the "putting you to the grindstone." You are both only human and make mistakes. So if she can forgive you a little, and you can forgive her a little, then it's a first step.

Don't give up. I think that if you both try, in time you can both be happier than you ever thought you could be. I really believe that. And I believe it for me too, so just try to focus on positive things and keep fighting for your marriage. It is worth it.

[FoolishMind]

Hello JohnnyD,

It is clear you very angry right now, and why shouldnt you be.

Your wife has asked you to join this forum "throughtheflame" designed to help people with addiction to Porn. but why the hell should you be on this site if your not addicted right?

Yes you view Porn, but its not like youve cheated on her. You dont have to view Porn either, you can stop whenever you want. And would she prefer it if you were gay? Its natural after all, your a man, and your attracted to women. If anything it is your wife that should have a little bit more understanding and realise there is no real harm. She only doesnt trust you because she has set a rule, that you have chosen to break. But if that rule didnt exist, there wouldnt be an issue.

Why on earth should you come on this website poor out your 'sappy shit' to complete strangers, your business is your business, and you are not an addict because what really matters is that you love your wife, you provide for her and your children, and if she didnt have this jealousy, and need to keep an eye on everything, you would pretty much be the perfect man in her eyes right?

So what you dont want to hear right now is strangers telling you how your wife feels, and why you are an addict or what we term here as a 'PA'.

As one stranger passing by another stranger I will just say one thing.

If you can honestly and really honestly say to yourself that what you do does not:-

a) disrespect your wife
b) make you distant
c) make you more lethargic
d) make you grumpy and moody
e) make you more aggressive and snappy

Then quite simply you are who you are, and that wont change.

If you think there is a small possibility that perhaps what you do, might make one of the points above be a factor, it is worth while, actually not posting, but just reading a few of the posts from members when they have first started, and see if you can relate to any of the traits of PA's, and see where that takes you.

You may be suprised to know that many men here will be able to read your opening post and think Gosh, thats exactly how I was x time ago.

Either way, I applaud you for respecting your wifes wishes to join here and make somewhat of an effort, in the same way im sure you wife will give you the respect to take some time out to give yourself a little chance to absorb whats on here and see if you can relate or not.

Whatever choice you make, I wish you both the best.

FM

[DudeWaffle]

Welcome, Johnny.

95% of what you say I could have written a year and a half ago. I had all those same feelings, as many of us did. But you're probably not going to believe that, insisting that your situation is so very different than ours. That's fine. You were guided here, kicking and screaming, at a point much earlier than most of us were. And frankly, I don't think you are going to get too much out of this forum until you come to some level of acceptance. To that end, have you taken a look at the survey on this site :
Survey link
or any of the countless others on the net? Maybe check out some (all) of the other sites listed here :
Porn and sex addiction resources .

Regarding the sappy **** posted by some PAs here: I hear you 100% there brother! I felt exactly that way! But now what I feel when I read those posts is actually a bit of jealosy. I wish I could write that sappy ****, because reading it usually expresses exactly how I feel or have at some point. I know if I could write that way it would be a tremendous help to my SO, but I just don't have the ability to write like that.

[boris]

Welcome JohnnyD,

You've said the reason you are here is for your wife. That's noble, especially if you don't think you have an addiction to porn. I realize that much of your first post was highly charged, and that you aren't looking for your every word to be analyzed. Sometimes we just need to vent our frustration, with our mates, our situations, ourselves.

The fact that you are willing to change (even if at this time, kicking and screaming lol) also speaks volumes about how much you value the ideal of a unified family. How you label it makes no difference. The fact that you are willing to try eliminating porn from your life to save your marriage is all that matters.

None of us are perfect here. Not everyone is going to rub you the right way. We all don't agree on everything. Eventually people fit into their own groove, with others they gel with. From personal experience, some of the pricklier comments in my own journal did me the most good. In retrospect, I can appreciate some of them now.

Use your journal how you see fit. If you want to vent, or rant, do it. Better than keeping it jumbled up in your head. If someone's replies are really bugging you, just Private Message them and ask them not to comment on your postings. It's your journal. You get to control it.

I wish you the best,
Boris