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    1. #11
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      Default

      Benedict,

      It's good that you're coming clean about this. I too understand the frustration of a relapse. Everything is going great and then two hours later I'm slapping myself for being so stupid. A relapse can either bring us down or it can be a stepping stone to improvement.

      Take the time to review what happened, it seems like you have, and then make changes to prevent that from happening again. It's like we have to have a plan to follow our plan to stay away from porn. These are some more drastic measures but if you find that whiskey is contributing to mb then throw it all out. If getting on the internet at certain times leads to trouble then you should install a filter, like K9, that will block all internet use during that time. If certain tv channels are triggering for you then try to block them out. I'm not saying that you have to do these but I think that it is sometimes necessary to take drastic measures to "detox". Good luck.

    2. #12
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      Default Another relapse

      Another relapse last night after only 3 days. The trigger again was feelings of rejection. A major problem. I realize I stayed PF for 9 days on the first attempt because SO was away and opportunity for me to perceive rejection and use it as an excuse was missing.

      I have known for some years that I need to address this issue, but I had not really been aware of how much of a trigger it was. So if I can learn from this, I need to figure out (1) a better set of strategies for dealing with this trigger in the short-term and (2) really try to address the rejection issue.

      So Day 1 is today - 7 December. Will think hard about more drastic measures.

    3. #13


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      Benedict,
      Have you spoken with your SO regarding your feelings of rejection? As the SO of a PA, it's helped me to better communicate with my H when I understand what he takes as signs of rejection and on the other side, acceptance.

      It doesn't even need to be a PA based conversation but a open, honest dialog so you both can understand each other. Some things I took as rejection from my H, were not. Other things he took as rejection from me, were not. But we both made bad assumptions because, together, we had never discussed the signals and signs of rejection.

      Just some thoughts.

      Keep moving forward!
      ~C~


      "Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.” ~ Unknown

    4. The Following User Says Thank You to Crisodian For This Useful Post:

      Vorlan (01-18-2010)

    5. #14



      is working
       
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      Quote Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
      The trigger again was feelings of rejection.
      Benedict,

      Once you've crossed the threshold of wanting to be free, you learn how many emotions have a negative feedback mechanism to your PA.

      Rowlf has used the phrase of "blanking out" the emotions that we want to run from; there are a number of ways to describe the ways us PAs employed P to hide from the real issues.

      But now the real issues demand attention lest they derail our efforts.

      And the first step is recognition, the step you've already taken (the good news!) and now the step to figure out how to deal with it.

      One more lesson learned, ready to continue...,

      Hang Tough,

      Daniel
      My Journal
      Staying Clean, Free Advice
      Need a plan to win? By FoolishMind
      Stages of PA & Recovery

      "Sometimes it is not enough to do our best; we must do what is required." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

    6. #15
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      Default Thanks for these comments

      I appreciate the comments and the support. SO and I have talked about my rejection issues, but I find it very hard not to interpret certain behaviours as rejection, which she says are not rejection. Intellectually I can accept that, but emotionally they trigger feelings of rejection anyway. Not helped by our very different styles of communication and a difficulty staying out of blame territory (assigning it and perceiving it in what the other is saying).

      But I clearly have to do better, not only to improve our relationship, but also because these feelings are a trigger, and then the PA exacerbates emotional distance.

      Thank you for your comments. Certainly helping me to look much more closely at what is going on, and hopefully to make changes.

    7. #16
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      Benedict,
      Like everyone has already said, whether or not MB and other factors that aren't exactly P are a problem is up to you, but in a way it's the same pattern of justification we all fall into. I'm not sure what you think about MB, but the habit of indulging in and justifying something sxual in any way can only hurt. As I'm in the beginning stages (and honestly I might as well keep it this way later on), I've decided to eliminate MB and anything remotely suggestive on TV and the internet. It all just has too much potential to remind me of P.
      I know it's not just me that has a problem with P and MB in the same instant. They go together. Whether or not MB is of itself wrong isn't the question; rather the question is whether or not there is any link at all in my mind between MB and P. If there is, I can't afford to touch either. Just some food for thought.
      David

    8. #17
      is feeling the pressure
       
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      Default Second relapse

      After 3 days on second attempt, I relapsed on 7 Dec. Used feelings of sexual rejection as an excuse. Feeling really bad, and what the heck I might as well indulge, so it went on for three days. And I did not come here to post as I was so ashamed and depressed. Thought I could not admit how I had failed. But eventually I realized if I was not going to be honest in this journal, there was absolutely no point to it.

      I am now really thinking through what went wrong and what I need to do to modify my strategies. Have been reading other posts and plans and looking deeply at myself. More on that later.

      So on first attempt I was free for 9 days. Second attempt for 3 days. Now on my 3rd day free again, and intending to really do better this time. And overall, the last nearly 3 weeks have been much more PF than usual, I have actually improved level of intimacy with SO, and done other things I have been procrastinating on. As well as gaining much more insight into what is going on in me. So its been well worthwhile even though I have have had 2 relapses.

      Working on a revised strategy, based on more insight!

    9. #18
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      Default Obsessive behaviour - my choice

      Have realized that while porn is a REAL BIG problem for me, causing all sorts of bad outcomes in my life and family, it is only the most extreme symptom of a much deeper underlying problem. I basically do not feel good about myself deep down, and use all sorts of obsessive and compulsive behaviours to block out that feeling, and the chronic mild depression that results from it. These include overeating (particularly quick snacks during the day and late at night, as well as pigging out from time to time at main meals), mindless reading of thrillers and SF late at night into the early hours of the morning until I fall asleep from exhaustion, channel surfing on TV and watching escapist stuff and silly reality competitions, getting into series like Lost with DVD and watching episodes back to back most of the nights, (more recently) drinking too many glasses of alcohol most evenings and following up with a whisky in bed, and of course PA. All this sounds extreme, and in a way it is, but I remain a reasonably productive and respected person professionally. It is my family and finances who lose out, mainly because I am not spending the time to sort out various financial and legal issues.

      This whole pattern of behaviour has become more extreme in last few years, particularly the PA and alcohol. In some ways, the payoff of PA in terms of arousal and trance and the easy availability of infinite amount of material has fuelled a habit that has got quite out of control. But looking back, I had similar behaviour patterns from adolescence but with milder obsessions, like reading SF endlessly. In those days, I would try to go cold turkey and pull myself out of the chronic mild depression by brute will. My friends thought I had a mild form of bipolar disorder because I would go from lying around depressed for days to fairly manic activity addressing all my priorities. And that fuelled the cycle, because when I felt good I would make huge to do lists and then the weight of what I had to do would become overwhelming. My only strategy for getting out from under the weight of the tasks I set myself was to again become depressed.

      And recently I have been doing the same thing using PA. When I feel the stress of my work and personal tasks become pressing I have been turning to PA to procrastinate. The problem has been getting worse because PA has escalated so much. And since joining this forum, and seriously trying to be PF, I have also realized for the first time how much the PA has reduced intimacy with SO and also created sexual attitudes that are causing problems in our relationship.

      So I am really serious about beating this. While I recognize that everyone is different and respect the paths and strategies of others, for me the AA approach of acknowledging powerlessness over the PA does not seem right for me. To beat this addiction, I feel I need to finally understand that I do have power over it, in the sense that I do have the capability to make alternate choices when confronted with triggers. My magic phrase (or affirmation for use when urges arise) reminds me of this

      “I am entirely responsible for cutting through my own laziness
      and addictions. There is nothing to wait for and no-one to
      blame.”

      All the techniques and strategies and recovery plans are in the end just worthless unless I am fully committed and really realize that I CAN change my life. PA is something I do, by compulsive decisions when confronted with triggers (to look at something arousing) followed by repeated compulsive decisions. So I CAN make different decisions, and respond differently at ach step of this chain. Of course, best if the first decision breaks the chain of compulsion. And that is my aim.

      A post by Stanley said it so clearly>

      And even though I'm now having to deal with a compulsion, I still have a choice - a series of choices, actually - that I can make or not make before I allow the compulsion to pull me down again. (02-27-2008)

    10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Benedict For This Useful Post:

      Daniel (12-16-2009), Vorlan (01-18-2010)

    11. #19
      is feeling the pressure
       
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      Default Four days now

      Four days PF now. SO and I got into a big fight about some fairly fundamental relationship stuff today. Each felt the other did not listen, disrespected them, was not pulling their weight, did not address the others sexual needs and preferences. Realized that I was not paying as much attention to her and what she was expressing about her needs as I should. And perhaps the distraction of PA has been a factor in that. When I joined this forum, I did not actually explicitly do the recommended steps of writing about triggers etc. Although I thought about them a lot, did not write it down. So now I spent some time doing it:
      I want to get rid of my PA because
      1. It is wasting my life. I-ve spent an hour, sometimes 2 or 3, per day on this mindless activity. Life is short, and this takes me away from what is important to me.
      2. It makes me feel inadequate and weak, I feel bad about myself, unworthy of love, inauthentic as part of me is hidden.
      3. I live with a low grade background fear that I will get caught, people will know, I will do something that gets me into trouble and my family will suffer and despise me.
      4. It reduces intimacy with SO, or more precisely, it causes me to not pay attention to SO and her needs.
      5. It exaggerates fantasies and keeps me from being truly engaged with real sexuality, but rather oriented towards fantasies and unreal expectations.
      6. It deprives me of sleep and then I get into alcohol and food to cope with chronic tiredness.
      My biggest triggers are
      1. Feeling rejected sexually. Usually when SO ignores my overtures, or fails to initiate or respond after I have already gone into rejection. Or offers sex later, then forgets about it.
      2. Feeling depressed or stressed, either by SO behaving harshly and nagging me, or by the overwhelmed feelings around work and other tasks that need doing.
      3. Needing some downtime after working too hard late at night, to let the brain stop racing. Generally as part of a ritual to get to sleep too late. Overtired as a result, and then that in turn is a trigger.
      4. Alone in the house – and a long to do list of things I really don’t want to do
      5. Travelling and alone in hotel room at night.
      6. Seeing sexy images in movies, or in fact sexy women in real life. Wanting to fantasise about other women, feelings that I have missed out on sexual variety.
      7. Bad sex. When I get slapped down for doing things she does not like, and then I feel constrained, and not allowed to get really excited and passionate.
      8. Driinking too much, eating too much, feeling bad about myself as a result.
      9. Sickness or pain. When I get allergies or asthma and body parts start to ache. Feel like I am decaying and best days are behind me. Selfpmedicate through PA>
      10. MB then needing a visual stimulus to get excited enough
      To counter this I will
      1. develop a third draft of my plan, much more explicitly addressing these triggers. Will post this in next few days.
      2. Total abstinence from solo use of written, auditory or visual material for obsessive seeking of sexual excitement or trancelike states. Day 1 of this was 10 December 2009.
      3. In bed by 12.30 am and lights out by 12.45 except in exceptional circumstances.
      4. Express what I want sexually verbally and not interpret responses as rejection. If it is rejection, don-t over-react, let it go.


      With all my newfound free time, I will.......
      1. Really progress some work projects that I want to do, but that are not real priorities for work time.
      2. Complete the draft book that has been in limbo for 2 years.
      3. Become more committed about training.
      4. Spend a lot more time with children helping them with learning, and also just reading to them and exposing them to lots of things including more physical activity.
      5. Pay more attention to SO in all ways. Particularly as a person. Communicate better with her, and open up about things I think about
      6. Sort out financial and legal situation
      7. Clean up the house. Throw out, file, back up, digitize, organize.
      8. Travel more for fun
      9. Do some intensive retreats and meditation.

    12. The Following User Says Thank You to Benedict For This Useful Post:

      Vorlan (01-18-2010)

    13. #20
      is feeling the pressure
       
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      Default Day five and just hanging in there

      Plagued by temptations to go online. SO home very late and tired, went straight to bed. Would have been enough in the past for me to run to the web and surf. I've been struggling with that urge all evening. Was writing a letter on the computer, and started reading a news webpage, then googled for photos of a news story and the next thing I knew I was starting to look down the page for photos with females in them (clothed). Stopped that immediately and came here to write in journal. Then I will go straight to bed and make it through day 5.

      Tried to do some work this evening, but mind would not settle. Quite on edge, wanting to blank out with some stimulation. Watched a show on TV instead, but really procrastinating and holding back from PA by a whisker. This thing really has a grip on me.


     

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