Dave42's Very Gay Journal of Recovery

[Crisodian]

I guess I need to hear from people who are successfully dealing with p over the long haul. How do we balance the fact that like a beautiful flower or a beautiful mountain or a beautiful painting, these images are beautiful? Do we say, "Tough luck, Dave, you can drink a glass of wine and enjoy its beauty, but your friend can't 'cause he's alcoholic. Same with you. Some people can look at soft or even heavy-duty p, because they not addicted, but you can't. You know you can't. You've known this for 80 days, plus during other periods of being clean..." So do I have to give up such a central part of being human?

dave,
I can't speak for PA, but I can speak as an addict. I've been in recovery for my addiction for a long time now. 15 years this year to be exact. And to be honest, I think every addict is different.

There are different levels of what each person can handle in their recovery. For me, it took me years and years before I could even talk about my addiction or even let myself think about what I was addicted to. I think in the last 2 years I was finally able to even talk about the subject. It took me, personally, that long. Even sharing this now is very hard.

I know, for myself, that were I ever to come in contact with what I am recovering from, I would slide right back down into the pit. It was that strong for me. So I stay away... From people who I know will take me places I do not ever want to go again. From triggers that I know will fuel the urge. From situations where I know I will put my recovery in harm's way. But at the end of the day, things are so much easier now. Now I know what I can and can't handle. I know what I can talk about and what I can't. And... I know what works for me.

Again, every person is different. Every addict is different. IMO, it depends on what you identify as your triggers, and if you feel what you are doing is going to help, or hurt, your recovery. It's a very personal decision. Unfortunately, one only the addict can make for themselves.

IMO, and it's just my opinion, you didn't relapse. But you did see that where you were going was not the right path for you. That alone is extremely important and great for your recovery! One more piece of the puzzle. Find strength in that, as you find what works for you and what doesn't. And even if you do relapse, learn from it and go forward. The more you learn, the stronger you become.

You can do this. Recovery fom any addiction sucks. It can be brutal, unfair, painful and so, so hard. But you already have the courage and strength to do this. You've come so far already. Try not to take it out on yourself. You are important! And, as castaway said in his post, I agree ... things are not as bad as they may seem at the moment.

Just my thoughts. I hope sharing this with you helps.

Find peace.

~C~

[Daniel]

Dave,

One thing that Castaway said and Crisodian referenced is the time aspect.

In my own journey I've had things happen both by accident and occasionally on purpose, and like Crisodian said, I could immediately feel the rush and the 'hurt' and also had an instant sense that I could harm my long-term recovery by continuing.

Like I've pointed out, the trade-off is simply not worth it thus I decide to stop.

And the Time Aspect (my original main point!). Let some time clean go by, re-focus your efforts, understand your highly personal boundaries as to what you can handle and what you should stay away from, and you will see this event is not as big as you originally thought, much like an earthquake and the decreasing aftershocks -which you can understand I know!

Peace,

Daniel

[artguy34]

Hey Dave, I think you are courageous to write about your difficult situation. But I agree with Daniel, Crisodian and Castaway with what they stated.

I think what you did is remarkable. You identified a trigger and you fought it and won. Its THAT simple! You may find that beautiful people are triggers and as much as that may hurt to give up, I think you understand that it may potentially lead you down a path you dare not to travel.

BUT... that choice was yours and you decided not to travel down that path! Do you see what I am getting at? You were at the first stage of relapse and you got yourself out. You should be proud of your courage and strength not feel shame or depressed because you have thoughts. Good lord you're only human!!!!!!!

But no worries buddy, we're all behind you no matter what!

By the way, my sex life with my partner is practically non-existent. Maybe I should channel all of my sexual energy into my relationship with him.

In fact I think you're right. He is your partner right? Then you should work on healing that part of your life too! You need a balance on the inside. You need to dismiss your urges for sexual release via P or any type of media that enhances your urges, but focus on what is real and true. Your partner is real, true and deserves to have your love, affection and yes, sexual energy! He is the one who deserves it, not Porn!

Good luck Dave, and keep fighting the battle!

[Athenon]

...I saw a picture of a guy in a swimming suit: very athletic and cute and I said to myself, "That's beautiful" and then, "How can I NOT look at this? This is such an important part of my life." it's weird...I know that I'm playing, dangerously playing with fire, but I have to acknowledge that I can't imagine living for the next 4 to 5 decades without enjoying looking at guys who are cute! Am I crazy? I'm not being very articulate.

You're not crazy and you are articulate enough my friend.

You are raising a very interesting question. It's a question I've been struggling with for a long time.

It's only human to enjoy seeing beautiful and sexy people. It's a natural instinct inside of us and I doubt getting rid of this is healthy in any way. This is part of us as humans and there's nothing we can do about it and neither should we.
I think the challenge with this addiction is to redefine your relationship with this aspect of yourself. In our addict mind such images of beauty and sexyness can trigger a need to be sexual and to satisfy this need by acting on it alone and mainly in the realm of our brain. This is just ourselves using the beauty and sexyness in our selfish quest for a chemical rush in our brain. Even if we don't act on it it's in our relationship with these images that define wether or not we are contemplating beauty or using images as a stimuli for our addiction.
Be carefull to what kind of eyes are laying on the picture. You know that there's big chances that your addict eyes may take over. My trick for this kind of situation is to try and relaxe and get out of my mind by focusing on the now then think about my relationship with the image. I know my addict mind is being solicited and I know that this is not what I want. I can then take another look and see that yes this is beautiful and I like what I see but looking at it more is obsessing, I don't need this in my life. I can have beauty in my life for real and not only in the form of an image that is only real in my Oh so fallible mind.

Don't beat yourself up Dave you are resolving crucial issues and learning everystep of the way.

[Vorlan]

Hey Dave,

Thought I'd throw my two pence in here too. I totally agree with what people have been saying here. This sounds to me like a momentary slip rather than a full relapse. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it.

One thing that you need to address head on though is this distinction between apprieciating beauty and lusting over potentially dangerous material. I must admit I've got a similar problem atm of not being totally sure of what is OK and what is not and it's a dangerous place to be even after over a year clean.

I think the key has got to be being totally honest with yourself here. The key things to consider are time, intentions and likely results.

1. Time:

Time is a big factor here, there's a big difference between spending hours lusting over a photo and glancing at it for a few seconds. You know deep down how much is normal and OK and after how much time it starts to feel wrong. You can tell when this is because you start to feel guilty. If you start to question whether what you're doing is OK then likely deep down you know it isn't good.

2. Intentions:

Again here it's important to be wary of your thoughts. Looking and apprieciating the beauty is fine but if you begin to feel excited, guilty, lustful or reckless then you should stop straight away. If you are just admiring the beauty then you should be in a similar state of mind to that when you are listening to music or looking at paintings. If on the other hand you are getting sexual pleasure out of looking then that's something to be avoided, particularlly as you have a partner.

3. Likely Results

Even with the best of intentions and the smallest planned timeframe sometimes (and you usually know when) this sort of thing is still going to lead you down the wrong path. This is another trust your instincts thing because you're a smart guy and you know when you are feeling vulnerable. Think HALT - Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. If you are feeling any of those it is a dangerous time for you and you should be extra careful.

In the end you've got to do what works for you mate. I find a good rule of thumb that usually works is simply if you have to try to justify what you're doing or you feel guilty about it dont do it. That's a sign that deep down you know you shouldn't be doing it.

I hope that helped buddy. Sorry if it was a bit ranty! :P You know me!

Best wishes,

Ben

[dave42]

Thank you everyone!

Castaway: treating this as a wake up call -- thanks! I hadn't thought of it that way. And also, your feeling that I was making too much out of this: thanks! I think it was partly because I'd just hurt my partner's feelings and I was, to use Vorlan's helpful framework: angry, lonely, and tired. (not hungry though -- I'd just binged on pasta! Ha!)

Crisodian: Thank you very much for sharing your personal struggles. I really appreciate it, especially since you mentioned that it was a tough topic to share. 15 years of recovery: that’s inspiring to me. Thanks. I think everything you wrote helps a lot but, given your long period of recovery, this is the most useful part: “It [recovery] can be brutal, unfair, painful and so, so hard.” I guess just hearing it from you—someone who is doing it successfully. Thank you very much.

Daniel: Thanks for all your words of encouragement. This helped me: ‘I could immediately feel the rush and the 'hurt' and also had an instant sense that I could harm my long-term recovery by continuing. Like I've pointed out, the trade-off is simply not worth it thus I decide to stop.” You have talked a lot about the trade off, and that is very helpful. The “true cost” of p, you’ve said elsewhere is different from the idea that free p “costs nothing.” Thanks!

Artguy: Thanks for re-framing the issue: “You were at the first stage of relapse and you got yourself out. You should be proud of your courage and strength not feel shame or depressed because you have thoughts.” Also, your ideas about directly attention toward my partner. Yes! I need to make time. We both are so busy and stressed out, it’s hard to get in the mood. I can’t believe that I’d be saying that, given that I’ve always had a strong sex drive, but it’s true. I guess slowing down and maybe just lighting a candle and putting on some music would help. Thanks!

Athenon: Thanks for this: the notion that it’s necessary to ‘redefine your relationship with this aspect of yourself. In our addict mind such images of beauty and sexyness can trigger a need to be sexual and to satisfy this need by acting on it alone and mainly in the realm of our brain.” So true! I think that it’s crucial: “Alone and in the realm of our brain” rather than with someone you love. Also this was very useful to me: “I can have beauty in my life for real and not only in the form of an image that is only real in my Oh so fallible mind.” It’s kind of the same thing, but not so much about sex. Enjoying people in general in a face to face, real and holistic way rather than just in my head.

Ben/Vorlan: Thanks! I think this really helps: 1. time 2. intentions and 3. likely outcomes. So, I’d say glancing at a picture of a beautiful person for 5 seconds, especially if I happen on a picture unintentionally and saying, “Wow!” and then moving on to the next activity is a lot different from 4 hours of lusting on purpose that will lead to 4 more hours tomorrow or later today. Yes, this makes sense. Also, this is very helpful: “Think HALT - Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. If you are feeling any of those it is a dangerous time for you and you should be extra careful.” I’ve seen this in other places from you and in regards to anger management, too. I’ll try to remember to focus on this.

Finally, this was great: “I find a good rule of thumb that usually works is simply if you have to try to justify what you're doing or you feel guilty about it don’t do it.” It’s up to me to decide, and I have to decide carefully. This is a great rule of thumb not only for my p addiction but for other areas of my life.

Thank you everyone. I’ve stayed clean since this episode. I’m very, very grateful for your support. My partner and I are thinking about getting some counseling, too – not related to PA specifically, but more around our relationship, communication patterns, and sex life in general. It’s very helpful to be able to share all of my problems with you all. Thanks.

[dave42]

Crisodian: I feel this so strongly, too, about my p addiction: "were I ever to come in contact with what I am recovering from, I would slide right back down into the pit." I feel that is exactly my situation with p. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, especially since it's hard to talk about it.

[Crisodian]

A little discomfort goes a long way when when it helps others. :)

I'm glad my sharing helps. Besides, if I have learned one thing (and I've learned a lot more than that...) during this journey with AG and his PA, opening up and talking about addiction, any addiction, is better that carrying the burden alone.

Be well.
~C~

[artguy34]

I'm glad my sharing helps. Besides, if I have learned one thing (and I've learned a lot more than that...) during this journey with AG and his PA, opening up and talking about addiction, any addiction, is better that carrying the burden alone.

Yep, I can vouch for that... opening up has been the best thing I could have ever done for my recovery!


Dave42...
You are one of the most helpful and respected people on this site. I think it shows by all the responses you received in this post. If that isnt an example of the type of character anyone should want to be, I dont know what is?

And as far as your partner is concerned... as you begin to recover from your addiction, I hope you and he can recover your relationship together by the very things you intend to do.

Good luck, and I'm glad you stayed strong!

[dave42]

Thank you very much, Artguy! I really appreciate it. My partner and I are doing much better compared to a few days ago. Also, I like Crisodian's signature quote from Cyril Connolly. It inspires me to try to stop hurting my partner's feelings.