Greetings--I'm PJ, and this is the first time on the board, and I have to say that I'm very encouraged by the candor and council that is expressed in the various posts (of which I've only looked at a few).
I decided to start this thread to discuss the specifics about how / why a Christian could be addicted to porn. Some background on me first--I am a Christian (saved for 7 years), but I was first exposed to pornography when I was 8 or 9 years old, and I've been pursuing pornography since I was 15 (I'm now 30, still unmarried).
When I was about 25 or so, I decided that porn was something that was not good to have around (due to the fact that it dishonored God), so I got rid of what I had (a movie or two and a magazine, I believe). All was "well" up until about 9 months ago when out of the blue, I was tempted and pursued the pornography via the internet.
Now, as to the topic of this thread: here is what gets me--I know deep down that the pursuit, viewing, and MB to pornography does not honor God at all and, I believe, causes Him to be disappointed, yet I -still- do it (in fact my latest slip was this evening). I'm sure there is a great deal of wisdom on the board that would provide some answers, but it absolutely kills me that I willfully choose to engage in behavior that is sinful and puts a rift between me and God. I mean, I know a few things:
1. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1)
2. Upon asking for forgiveness, our sins are as far as the east is from the west and He remembers them no more (Ps 103:12 & 1 Jn 1:9)
3. We're all human beings and can easily be tempted to allow our passions to overcome our reason
What's the point of all of this? I do not want to continue pursuing pornography / lustful thoughts, and I know that for me, the only deliverance that I will have is through Christ.
I would appreciate any words of wisdom / knowledge from those that feel led to provide any. I also covet your prayers, and I will join in prayer with you if you desire as well.
I am an SO trying to get to sleep, but I keep seeing threads that pull me. Such as yours. You are so right, you are dishonoring God when you use porn. Please also know that you are dishonoring you Mother, Sister, Friends, etc...all women when you objectify us like that. I know that the women in porn want you to keep on looking, but that is between them and God. I hope this is making any sense, as I am quite tired.
Anyway, PJ,
You are in my prayers. Right now. I prayed for your strength in overcoming satan. I prayed for the peace that passes all understanding be upon you.
Something about these past 9 months is different. Urges to look at porn don't surface "out of the blue" after you've been abstinent for years at a time. Think about it very carefully.
I am a Christian too. I have been saved for 18 years, or a few weeks, depending on how you count. I mean that I was saved, and that then by willful sin, I fell away from my faith. This falling away happened so slowly I didn't even realize it was happening. Porn got involved. Bad news. I asked God's forgiveness and salvation a second time, just before this Christmas season. What a great Christmas it has been!
Yes, yes I know the Bible says that once Jesus is in your life, he won't leave you. But that doesn't mean you won't leave him. I've slammed the door in his face more times than I can count. Yes, he has forgiven me each time. But if I am using his forgiveness as a crutch for acting outside his spirit, does he really dwell in my heart, or do I just like saying that?
A comment on something you wrote:
Quote:
1. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1)
2. Upon asking for forgiveness, our sins are as far as the east is from the west and He remembers them no more (Ps 103:12 & 1 Jn 1:9)
3. We're all human beings and can easily be tempted to allow our passions to overcome our reason
Perhaps it would help you to elaborate specifically on these. Say what each means to you. And, particularly, what is the biblical support for #3? As for point #1, are you "in Christ Jesus" when you use porn?
The internet P is much more addictive, in my opinion, than magazines and videos. Fortunately, it's only been 9 months for you.
I don't have time to look it up right now, but there is a common verse in the Bible that explain's your dilemma - something like "that which I do not want to do, I do..." It's human (sinful) nature. That's our defalt setting. It takes time to change it.
Dear Mozart (and PJ): The verse you're thinking of is Romans 7:14-8:2.
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. 8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
Thus, though we are slaves to sin, once we accept the Spirit of Christ into us, we are freed from sin, and no longer should have the quandary described above. Well...
As usual, Paul understands the human condition. In Rom 8:9 he says we are not controlled by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, and thus we should *not* be controlled or troubled by sin or lust. HOWEVER, in 8:12, he turns right around and says, "Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die..." You see? On one hand, we have been freed from slavery to sin, but on the other hand we still have an obligation to resist sin, and not live according to the sinful nature.
Thus, God did not make the world, or us, in such a way that we could just ask God, "Please deliver me from porn addiction," and He would miraculously heal us. God made the world so that resisting this addiction would take our best energy and attention, require help from many fellow-sufferers, and most important, an every day, every MOMENT attitude of listening to God's voice inside us, in scripture, and in the advice of loving people, and simply being obedient to that voice.
As another Christian working HARD to be healed of this illness, I pray for your recovery, PJ. I have no advice other than the usual: tell other people about your addiction, and get their help. Dismantle the secret life you've built around your porn addiction. Stop telling God what you want from Him, and start listening to what He wants from you, and then just do it without bargaining or resisting.
Thanks so much for your thoughts and prayers....I really do appreciate and need it.
Al--you brought up some very good and challenging points that I had, frankly, not considered.....to address them:
1. Being abstinent from porn (or any sin, for that matter) and then coming back to it is, I agree, something that's not just "out of the blue". While I do not like to give the devil more credit than he is due, I do believe that he does play a role in tempting me, but I fully acknowlege that the choice to disobey is mine. I think the thing that is different is that the ministries that I've been involved in have become richer in nature (i.e. more anointing, depth, etc..), and I do believe that in the near future, the Lord will open up the door for me to get married.
I totally agree with j-pac--porn degrades women and my perception of them, and it would be quite distructive to a marriage.....it would be terrible to go into a courtship with this addiction having control of my life, wouldn't it ?!
2. Al, you made the statement: "Yes, he has forgiven me each time. But if I am using his forgiveness as a crutch for acting outside his spirit, does he really dwell in my heart, or do I just like saying that?" Wow--that's a very sobering thought, isn't it? I think I can say that I don't look to his forgiveness as an excuse in my life--I think I'm just being disobedient to what I know He's called me to. I truly do believe He dwells in my heart, but its obvious that I've not totally surrendered every aspect of my being to him....this one's worth meditating on, I can tell.....
3. Regarding the scriptures....
a. Romans 8:1 -- No condemnation.....for me, that means that there is no harsh word, no attack of the devil, no opinion of myself that could separate me from the love of Christ. I agree, Al--when looking at Porn (or sinning, in general), I think I step out of Christ's will and, for a time, am not in Christ Jesus (i.e. I'm operating under the law of sin and death). But, God being so Merciful, would say "Come all those who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest". But that rest has a price, doesn't it? A total, complete, no "gray-area" surrender to the Father.......this is a huge price to pay, is it not (from our perspective). I think this surrender constitutes Walking in the Spirit (Gal Chapter 5).
b. Ps 103:12--Sins as far as the east is from the west.......upon making that surrender to the Father, our sins are covered by the blood that was shed at Calvary, and He remembers them no more.
c. I said that we're human beings that can easily be tempted and allow our passions to overcome our reason.....this was more of a personal statement of mine, but I think some scripture that goes along with this would be Gal 5:17 and Rom 7:5-6
And, here's another one that, quite frankly, scares me somewhat: Hebrews 10:26-31 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment andTHE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
Actually, Dan, maybe I'm proving your point(s) for you
Many thanks to all for your prayers and advise......I hope we can continue this discussion for a while...
This is a great site, especially for someone like me who is a Christian that recently began flirting with Internet P. It lulls you to sleep then rips you apart.
Thankfully, I have realized how much I was starting to get sucked in and have begun the road to recovery.
Someone above me said it and it is true -- internet p is another animal all together. There is so much garbage out there and it is so easy to find.
I never read magazines, viewed movies, went to strip clubs etc., etc., but I recently had the internet installed and quickly got sucked into it just surfing one day.
I think the worst thing looking back at the past few weeks is not the spiritual problems it has caused. We worship a great god who is full of grace, as long as we repent and seek his face.
For me, the worst part is thinking about all of the time and energy I wasted that I will never get back.
Let me add this thought -- I'm quite sure my addiction to porn is nowhere near as bad as my addiction to the internet. I can get lost on the internet for hours and hours and hours and never once have the urge to look at porn. I'll visit sport sites, I'll visit television/media sites, chat rooms, etc., etc.
I'm sorry, but I've had to repent of this sin -- I think it is a form of idolatry -- far more than looking at porn.
That begs the question -- why is the internet so much more powerful than say television or movies?
Is the Internet really more powerful than other forms?
I gave up using the internet for porn in may of '03, but I have only been clean since around Nov. 11th. I instead used movies and magazines.
Maybe one reason that the internet is so hard for some people is that it is that you can be looking for one thing and the whole time you're just a couple keystrokes away from looking at p, whereas with other forms they take more steps to obtain.
What about Satellite T.V? that's probably just as bad as internet. But maybe it's the internet's ability to give you exactly what you are looking for right when you want it that makes it more insidious.
That begs the question -- why is the internet so much more powerful than say television or movies?
I have always viewed the internet as "television for the ADD." By that I mean we don't have to labor through the commercials, we can watch everything we want----right away (as opposed to having to sit through the weather, local news, etc... to get to the sports highlights!) It is as simple as point and click! Something funny that I have done is to look at my history on the internet when I am done surfing---just to see how random my surfing was! I would go from my e-mail, to sports, to some ad I saw on a sports site, to how Sadaam got captured, to the latest cars, to the newest tool on the market----you get the picture! The point being is that we control where we go, and get there when we want. God bless!
About me -
11-13-2007, 06:19 PM
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