One question

[Justme]

I am suppose to be in bed but after finding this site i just have too many thoughts going through my head.
One question this:
Is there a connection between P and just finding oneself drawn to looking at people in real life? For intense does the same trigger for wanting to look at P also trigger wanting to look at real people and just be fantasing about being able to do things with real people?
Not sure if that question makes sense. I mean when looking at P I often fantazise about being the one doing it to the on screen girl. But then also in real life i find myself just constantly thinking about doing it with everyone that i am attrcated to.
So is there a connection between being addicted to P and being just addicted to sex or sexual thoughts?
the problem is too though that after looking at P for hours on end each day my body does not respond to real life sex so much anymore even though i think about it all the time.
Cheers

[Dominus]

Hi justme, In my experience I found myself looking at women and judging them according to how good looking I thought they were. I disliked myself for doing that because it relflected an attitude which is prevalent in society that only if you were young and beautiful were you important or valuable - which of course the majority of us are not, and all of us will soon not be.
Since I have given up the porn I see people differently, a person who previously I would have thought of as dour looking or unnatractive I now see in my minds eye laughing and smiling with their families or friends. For me it has had an amazing impact on how I view people and I am sorry for all the years I have been so shallow and superficial.
Maybe with time your body will revert back to what it should be, you need to give it some time.
Keep up the good work.

[showmelove]

Yes, I think there is a link between being sexually obcessed in general and looking at p. But I believe it to be mush better to look and fantasize about real women instead of pics. The better you know a woman the better it is to fantasize about her IMO, because then you include more of what is her in that fantazy. I think the major issue with most PA's is that in fantasy land we have complete control over our fantasies. A real women is mush more complex, she comes with a complete package of personality and feelings and issues and behaviours. That is unpredictable, but when we fantasize about pics or strangers, we are in control, they are just objects. PA's are control freaks in that way. I think it has to do with fear of women, seing them as unpredictable and trying to avoid things about women that in real life would be more complex to deal with.

I mean when PA's fantasize to pics or strangers they don't know anything about them except their looks. These "objects" could have a horrible personality. What if the strangers or pic we fantasize about would be like that. We don't know. I think a big part why I was a PA was that I didn't judge girls based on personality, because I didn't know a lot of girls, so all that differentiated girls was looks. Now I'm starting to see the personality dimension, just as Dominus was talking about.

[Justme]

Wow guys, everything you both have talked about makes sense. Like you Dominus, I too have been very shallow when it comes to looking at woman. I would tend to look at woman in the same way as I would look at woman in P. I would look at real people and just judge them so harsely. I would be thinking, ok you are pretty but your legs are too short, or you have a great butt but if only your boobs were a bit bigger youd be great etc etc. I totally didnt realize or think there was any connection to my way of thinking and P. But when I surf P thats all I am doing. I am surfing the web judging the girls and i would stop until I found one that I thought was perfect and that would then be the one I would MS over.

But it did make me feel like not a very nice person when i would find myself judging girls in real life. I would look at them and try and model them in my head until I decided what would make them look perfect. How shallow is that! P just created this false image of what I though was good enough. And it would just so stop allowing me from appreciating the beauty of normal people. All i found myself doing all day was judging peoples looks and coming up with ways to decide what would make them perfect.
Thank you sooo much for your insight into this.

i think the same issue would cause my erection problems becaue instead of just enjoying the beauty of a womans naked body i would find myself judging her and critiqing her imperfection. I have to say i have noticed over the last few days that i have been admiring my girlfriends naked body so much more lately. And she was always totally gorgeous but yet i would still always find myself looking at her and thinking, ummmm, if only your butt was a little firmer, if only your nipples were a little bigger etc etc. And i would also find myself disconnected from her.

And what you said showmelove - The better you know a woman the better it is to fantasize about her IMO, because then you include more of what is her in that fantazy. I like that thought!!! And i also liked what you said about starting to see girls for their personality instead of just a fantasy object.

Thanks for sharing your thought (-:

Cheers

[iblivin4givinru]

Ok, Justme hmmm i hve to think about this one for a second

God says when you look at a women and physically wish you where doing sexual things with her it is lust.

and a precher says that if you look at a women for more the 15 seconds and want her for yourself that is also lust.

Many people think lust is not a sin, it actually is. and yes porn is a reason to look at women sexual but also is not, it is because if you look at porn and you think of sexual things and you daydream or want those things then that is a sin cause it is lust, but it is not because lust is what guys do and they can not help themselves without praying and reading gods word

Hope this Helps

Wendell

[HalfPint]

to possibly answer your one question:
Is there a connection between P and just finding oneself drawn to looking at people in real life?

no. There isn't. We are human, and we all (for the most part) have the desire to procreate. Its a natural feeling embedded inside of us. Its a survival tactic have you. We, as a human race, want to guarantee that there will always be a human race. Just like animals do. They feel the need to procreate, its something embedded in every one of us, and in every living being. so naturally we are attracted to others. However, looking at porn turns that attraction into a an attraction of other sorts. Naturally we are attracted to someone because we need them, with porn addiction we are attracted to someone because we want them. It turns procreation, the feeling that you need to get married and have a family, into something disturbingly disgusting. It turns it into a situation where you want that person for self pleasure and nothing else, thus why many men turn to prostitution (which is disgusting in and of itself).

Also to answer your other question:
is there a connection between being addicted to P and being just addicted to sex or sexual thoughts?

yes, and no. There are many people who are just plainly addicted to sex. People who may not even have an internet connection and may not even have or watch porn. But also at the same time, I think anyone (if your not correct me, but as far as I've seen this is true) that is addicted to porn, is addicted to sex/sexual thoughts. its perfectly natural to have a sexual thought, however. That goes along the same lines of procreation, however porn turns those thoughts into something that we feel that we need, and also increases the amount of them that we have and also changes them (i.e. we may start thinking more about what we see on the computer instead of thinking about having a wife or starting a family).

Porn is a gradual thing. It starts off as a question, a thought, an idea, then it transitions into something harder, something "bigger" so to speak. For me, I started looking at catalog and magazine ads, say in the sunday paper or catalogs my mom got for clothing. I would take the pictures and hide them in my room, then soon, that didn't work as well so I started to dig deeper and thats when my brother introduced the world of internet porn. I started looking at really mainly softcore stuff, I really didn't want the harder stuff, but then that changed, it got hard and harder and I kept looking.

Now, Why did I just go through all of that even though it seems it doesn't pertain to the actual question? Because like I said, Porn is a gradual thing. You start out small but work your way up to something bigger (figuratively speaking). Eventually images on the screen don't do it any longer, they no longer hold the potency that they originally did when you first saw them. So, you start wanting more, and more. With some people this leads them to rape, some people it leads them to having sex with as many women as they can, and it can lead to other places. For me it lead to what I call fantasizing. I would think about a woman who I though beautiful (one that I didn't know and didn't look up to), maybe a girl in high school who was out of my league and stuck up (never talked to me). I would fantasize the images and videos that I saw or ideas put in my head with those various women. I've never actually had sex, but I do know if situations where looking at porn lead to having sex and I know situations where its lead to rape.

I apologize if my post is a bit lengthy and I hope that I've answered your questions correctly/helped you out a little bit.

[Coyote Toast]

You've raised some interesting questions, justme. I think that a key piece to this discussion relates to the mechanism of addiction. Sexual feelings trigger the internal release of neurochemicals that create a lot of pleasure -- this is a natural experience. As is well documented, it is quite possible to become emotionally addicted to these neurochemicals and this mechanism of releasing them. P is a common way to do this, but it can also be done with fantasy or staring at real people. So ultimately we have to come to terms with what is natural/healthy and what is addictive/unhealthy in our sexual behaviors.

I've been thinking a lot about this as I struggle to come to terms with my own sexuality and my PA. I'm trying to find a balance and it's not at all easy. Patrick Carnes has some very helpful writing about this: "Only an out-of-control pattern along with the other classic signs of addiction -- obsession, powerlessness, and the use of sex as a means to relieve pain -- indicate the presence of sexual addiction." (That's from DON'T CALL IT LOVE: RECOVERY FROM SEXUAL ADDICTION.) Carnes also offers a 4 step analysis to assess whether sexual behavior is addictive in his book OUT OF THE SHADOWS and I'm going to quote it here for your consideration:

"Unlike an alcoholic who can abstain and maintain sobriety, the sexual addict has to face the fact of his or her own sexuality. Like the overeater, recovery does not mean the elimination of funamental human processes. Celibacy does not resolve the problem. The question emerges for addicts as to how they determine when their sexual behavior is addictive.
The following formula is suggested as a guideline. Signs of compulsive sexuality are when the behavior can be described as follows:

1. It is a secret. Anything that cannot pass public scrutiny will create the shame of a double life.
2. It is abusive to self or others. Anything that is exploitive or harmful to others or degrades oneself will activate the addictive system.
3. It is used to avoid or is a source of painful feelings. If sexuality is used to alter moods or results in painful mood shifts, it is clearly part of the addictive process.
4. It is empty of a caring, committed relationship. Fundamental to the whole concept of addiction and recovery is the healthy dimension of human relationships. The addict runs a great risk by being sexual outside of a committed relationship."

Carnes is a good 12 stepper so he offers us an acronym to remember this analysis: SAFE (secret, abusive, feelings, empty). I've been using the above guidelines to analyze my own behavior and I'm finding it very helpful. The only drawback to it so far is the fourth point if you don't have a relationship. But a lot can be learned just by applying the first 3 points.

Anyway, I highly recommend you continue to enjoy your girlfriend and choose her over the unresponsive two dimensions of P.