Slips...

[rouby]

This post is inspired by a movie that I just watched on TV. It was about a husbands PA.
When he got help, part of the agreement was doing a lie detecter test.

The husbands issue was with hookers. On day 1 he had an argument with his wife and went cruzing for hookers. At that point he called his sponsor and did not pursue it any further.

At 3 months clean, he did the lie detector tests with his wife where one of the questions was cruzing for hookers. He said it was a slip.

This made me question something. We talk alot about our sobriety with the 100 day thread. I was just wondering...A lot of people use MC without considering that a slip, thus protecting their daycount.

It would seem to me MC is definitely a slip...I wonder how many on the 100 day thread had a slip without resetting?

This just makes me take a more serious look at what we are really doing in our recovery. I think "cruzing" could be setting your self alone time with the computer ready to act out- but something happened that prevented looking at P-sites...Is that not a slip?

Just some thoughts for our journeys...

[edjames71]

This is a good question. We are surrounded by MC stuff everyday. I guess I would have to answer that as how we interact with it. If we take it at face value and just move on then no...it's not a slip. If we go looking for it or dwell on it and fantasize about it then yes I would consider it a slip. This question reminds me of the topic we talked about in my last SA meeting about dreams. Does a s***al dream count as a slip?

Everyone is goingis going to have a different definition of what a slip is. Good question, I look forward to hearing other responses.

[Phil413]

This made me question something. We talk alot about our sobriety with the 100 day thread. I was just wondering...A lot of people use MC without considering that a slip, thus protecting their daycount.

It would seem to me MC is definitely a slip...I wonder how many on the 100 day thread had a slip without resetting?

Great question, rouby. Obviously, the number on the daycount is going to vary depending on what you're counting. Personally, I'm counting days free from porn and masturbation. It's been 170 days since I did either of those things. If I were setting the bar lower, and keeping track of consecutive days of absolute sexual purity, in thought, word and deed, the number would be lower.

Although "middle circle" stuff is bad in itself, I don't count it as a relapse unless it leads to porn and/or masturbation. Those are the things I came here to get free from, so it's abstinence from those things that I'm counting.

Phil

[Phil413]

Does a s***al dream count as a slip?

No, because you have no control over it.

Phil

[rouby]

Thanks to Phil and Ed for your thoughts on slips.

Phil- I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking the 100 day thread- I was only trying to go deeper with how we rationize our actions.

Relapse and slips are different- but I guess we have to ask ourselves if they both reset our daycounts or not.

MC, I believe can be both a slip and not a slip. As I have said before, it hinges on our intent.

However, with all of this said, I still believe the bigger picture is living a healthier life. We can use all of these terms we use in recovery, but what is more important- protecting our daycounts or being honest with where we are in with building a life that we can be proud of?

Again, these are just things I have been thinking of as of late...

[Phil413]

Phil- I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking the 100 day thread- I was only trying to go deeper with how we rationize our actions.

Don't worry, it didn't come across as an attack.

Relapse and slips are different- but I guess we have to ask ourselves if they both reset our daycounts or not.

Again, it depends on what you're counting. For me, the very bright line is porn and masturbation. If I do either of those things, I reset. Otherwise, I don't. So, for me, the daycount represents days free of porn and/or masturbation. Other people may wish to count other things.

Phil

[JohnnyLan]

Some of the many stepping stones along my path to recovery and purity have been other programs (like Candeo) and a few others. All of them require the individual to define sobriety. This involves what a slip is and what a full blown relapse is. In my opinion, this must be defined by the individual within his/her relationships. One of the strengths of TTF is the interaction with others.... But I wonder if it is also a weakness. I simply cannot define a slip for someone else... They must do that for themselves.

[HopefulsRock]

Rouby... Very good question about MC stuff and should it be considered a relapse?

In my life when I here or say that "Relapse is not an Option" I am referring to P & MB! ...But I also think that achieving and maintaining that sobriety is just success in what Chasman62 refers to as Phase-1. Phase-2 - IMO... is about changing your habits and behaviors so as to position yourself best not to ever allow this to ever happen again! ...basically making yourself a better man! So in my opinion the 100 day thread is about succeeding in Phase-1... but also a good tool for us PA's to gauge ourselves by and lean on each other a bit to achieve that success!

Phase-2 however is all about avoiding that MC stuff while we're trying to achieve that goal of being a better man and I would have to say that if it was a "Phase-2... 100 day thread" then I would definitely not be at the same count and have to give it much more scrutiny to determine my sobriety in that matter? It's kind of like comparing apples to oranges and we're talking about two different types of relapses. A very good subject for discussion none the less though Rouby! ...but I have to agree with JohnnyLan that "RELAPSE" is in the eye of the beholder so to speak and everybody's situation is different.

[TrueBlue]

Some of the many stepping stones along my path to recovery and purity have been other programs (like Candeo) and a few others. All of them require the individual to define sobriety. This involves what a slip is and what a full blown relapse is. In my opinion, this must be defined by the individual within his/her relationships. One of the strengths of TTF is the interaction with others.... But I wonder if it is also a weakness. I simply cannot define a slip for someone else... They must do that for themselves.

I think the strength is in hearing what other people think and their reasoning and using that to help define what you think and strengthening your reasons. Often times someone else can articulate something in a way that resonates, and places like this (well, heck the whole world) work best if everyone takes what they can use and not let the rest bother them. That little tidbit is something I've been trying to work on for myself, btw :)

All the best,
TrueBlue

[Phil413]

Relapse and slips are different- but I guess we have to ask ourselves if they both reset our daycounts or not.

I had another thought about this, and specifically, why we count what we count. I mentioned before that my daycount reflects the number of consecutive days I've abstained from viewing porn and/or masturbating. Why? Because it's the compulsive inability to refrain from viewing porn and/or masturbating to porn or porn-like images that define porn addiction. That doesn't mean that other forms of lust are okay; they're not. But I'm here to get free from porn addiction, so I'm keeping track of how long I've been able to abstain from the things that are symptomatic of that addiction. Of course, I'm trying to refrain from any and all deliberate indulgence of lust, whether it's pornographic or not, but that's not what I'm keeping track of with the day count. So I'm not going to reset it if I deliberately entertain a lustful thought, or look at a non-pornographic but lust-inspiring image. I consider those things to be wrong, and I try to avoid them, but again, they're not what I'm keeping track of with the daycount.

Phil