Slips...

[rouby]

There has been some great thoughts on this thread- I am getting 2 things...

First and foremost,everyone has their own definitions of sobriety.
Second, it would seem the majority of folks here are using their daycounts primarily as counting bottom line P&M.

I know that some would propose that in early recovery MC should be included as acting out- just to make things easier.

I tend to be a little more critical of my own definition just because I have been fighting this for a very long time and I just cannot give myself an out with intentional MC.

I also know that for me, MC ALWAYS leads me to P, so I just need to stay away from it as much as I can.

I still think intentional MC is a slip and a relapse is a return to P...This is my working definitions.

[Cupcakemomma]

I know I really have no clue what I'm talking about, but from a general addictions purpose, MC stuff is basically just towing the line. For me, a former hard drug user, I see it as 3 stages: Thoughts (cravings, urges) Acting out (MC kinda stuff, thinking of calling a dealer, talking to old friends, ritualistic behaviors etc.) and Total Relapse. If I stop it at the first stage, I keep counting (6 years now) if I pick up that phone, I'm done for, even if I never touch it. I dunno, that's just my random thought on it.

[rouby]

Thanks for your thoughts on this CCM. What you wrote is pretty much what I believe aobut it. I have always considered intentional MC as acting out. I would call that type of MC hunting. Someone once told me that the problem with hunting is that you ususally find what you are looking for.

[artguy34]

This is a good thought provoking thread.

My own opinion is that a "slip" is not a "relapse". A slip is part of the process of relapsing. As Phil eluded to, many of us are setting the mendoza line as relapse being Porn and/or MB. But slips are part of recovery. It is how we handle the slips that keep us from relapsing. It seems to me that many people are seeing slips as intentional. Let us not forget that there are silent/quiet urges or slips that can happen as well. One of the most common is continuing to follow the same patterns or habits we were in while feeding our addiction. (example: staying up late on the computer viewing the internet.) Even though we may be browsing innocent websites without intent to view porn, the pattern is still there. "It feels the same". That alone is a slip because we can easily slide into relapse. I've read many times that PA's were up late on the computer "browsing" and all of a sudden they had an urge they were trying to fight. Well... yea, you're used to being on the computer late at night viewing porn, so it's that continuous pattern/cycle happening again. The "slip" wasn't intentional, but it sure can happen... and happen fast! So how do you fight it? Don't stay up late at the computer anymore.

I love using my walking analogy, if you are walking down the street (of life), then slip and fall (into relapse), do you stay on the ground and never get up? No, most people get up, dust themselves off and see why they fell. (learn from their mistakes)

This is just like recovery. If we are walking in recovery, then we see an obsticle in our way that may make us slip and fall, we should try to avoid it. But what if we're not paying attention? What if we're walking and because life is just busy, we don't see that obsticle? If we hit that obsticle and begin to slip and fall? If there is something to grab a hold of, we reach for it and avoid the fall.

Such is the way of "slipping", sometimes our urges come out of the blue and we are faced with making a quick decision that could lead us to relapse or continued sobriety. If we are prepared, success comes instinctively and we can avoid relapse. Like grabbing on to something to avoid a fall.

Many people have different perspectives on recovery. There is no "one size fits all" here. What ever works for you, continue to do it. If you relapse, then identify why you relapsed and learn from your mistake. Then next time when you're walking in recovery, you will not "slip" over the same spot on the road!

AG

[Phil413]

Excellent thoughts, artguy34. I like the analogy to walking. Perhaps it would be helpful to think in terms of "stumble" and "fall" instead of "slip" and "relapse." As you said, when we walk, we may stumble over something. Sometimes we catch ourselves and we don't fall. Other times, we do fall. We need to be careful, because there are a lot of obstacles on this side of the bright red line.

Phil