To Pa's and So's - About a 'consequence' contract? Help?

[Jon Doe 109]

I actually think the reward approach is better - it put's a positive spin on recovery instead of a negative one. It's just like training a dog or a small child - positive reinforcement is proven to work better so figure out a way to do that. If your relationship revolves around policing and punishing I think it may fail.

[RobP413]

You don't get rewards for doing what you're supposed to do. We caused this mess. It's ludicrous to think that we should expect some kind of commemoration if we're good boys for a while.

Got to disagree with you here Zach.

The question here is what is best for RECOVERY in this case. And that does not just mean recovery for the PA. It means recovery for both in the relationship, and recovery for the RELATIONSHIP.

On this website, we are rewarded in small ways all the time with regards to recovery. Whether it is succeeding with Phil's 100 days challenge or another sobriety challenge or merely the respect and positive interaction we receive from other members of the forum, it is a similar principle.

I think that in anyone's relationship, whatever it is, even if it is not related to recovery from something, when people are taking the high/hard road (it's easier to be bad, lazy, etc. generally), it is worth celebrating in a relationship.

I 100% agree that boundaries should be established, and consequences should be discussed when people take the wrong path. But I do NOT think that a relationship currently recovering from PA (or anything else) should be devoid of rewards, celebration, and recognition for doing the right thing. It cannot all be negative all the time with no positive reinforcement... IMO, I believe it is just as reasonable to discuss consequences for steps in the wrong direction as it is to discuss celebration for steps in the right direction.

[rosie]

You don't get rewards for doing what you're supposed to do. We caused this mess. It's ludicrous to think that we should expect some kind of commemoration if we're good boys for a while. We shattered the trust of our SO's with our negative behavior. Think about the trauma we put them through. Don't you think they have the right, the need to establish boundaries and consequences, especially if it might help them recover? You want a reward for not lying for a week? How about a clear conscience. That's all we deserve until our SO's are better.

I do agree to a large extent. Someone mentioned treating him like a child, err, no thanks, not my job to parent and I find the whole notion repulsive, really. Not only is it not my job, but it's putting distance between us being equal as partners - the whole reason that he is a P addict is because he is emotionally immature and childish. I can't see how reinforcing this 'learned helplessness' is at all healthy.

I think that in anyone's relationship, whatever it is, even if it is not related to recovery from something, when people are taking the high/hard road (it's easier to be bad, lazy, etc. generally), it is worth celebrating in a relationship.

I get that you need encouragement, but praise for telling the truth is not something I am willing to do - truth is a baseline behavior expected of anyone I have anything to do with, if he needs praise to be honest I want nothing to do with him, quite frankly.

If he wants praise for this stuff, I think it should come from SAA friends or counselor etc - there are a lot of assumptions of responsibility mentioned around these parts, and in fact the RN exercises point out that we as SO's are not responsible in any way to the failure or success of his recovery. This exercise is to establish boundaries, not set up a dependance of praise/scolding for his behaviors.

I cannot think of any consequences that might work - I know that the message of this exercise is that you must establish firm boundaries - I Just cannot determine what sort of consequences would work.

The only things I can think of are what I naturally feel - eg: When he lies to me, I don't want to talk to him. If he uses P, I don't want to sleep in same bed, be around him, talk to him. Maybe I could do set exclusion periods if this is the case? Ugh.

[Zachary]

What I was trying to imply is that we broke the trust in the first place. We as PA's are all in this mess because of our own behavior, and we brought our SO's along for the ride. The reward for not lying can (and in my opinion should) be our own inner knowledge that we're being truthful, that we're one step closer to re-building the trust that we shattered. That we're one step closer to closing the wounds and smoothing over the hurt. I understand the concept of rewards, yes. Dates out with your SO, sure that's a wonderful idea. But I want to deserve those things. How can I sum it up? Here:

Being good is not the same as not being bad.

I'm very familiar with the concept of positive reinforcement. But, how many of us were positive with our SOs' during our addiction and in the early days of our recovery? If you were, good for you. But, all I'm positive about is that I positively destroyed my SO and I'm positive I want to fix things. Rewards are all fine and dandy, I love them as much as the rest of you out there. But, the reward I want for being trustworthy is my SO trusting me again. I just can't expect my SO to not only stand by me in my recovery, but to dole out rewards just for not doing what got us here in the first place? No one should have to be that strong.

[rosie]

I wish your SO was here Zach! I would love to meet her. You sound like you have your priorities straight..kudos to you.

To be quite honest, i even hate the idea of consequences - i like natural consequences, but maybe I should trust the true and tried recovery nation workshop over my own thoughts. :-?

[vintageturtle]

I think calling it "consequences" is the problem, for me. I've heard and read so much about employing consequences in disciplining children that it is the first thing I think of when I hear the word. I also don't like the idea of treating my SO like a child, but if someone is going to suggest doing so by using consequences which focus on what will happen if the PA does something wrong, then I'm going to go into child discipline mode and say you have to highlight the positives as well.

I have a feeling, though, that what they describe as a consequences contract is more like a summary of your boundaries and how you will protect them. That, to me, is a different story. In that case, I don't see it as the spouse making up punishments that will result as a consequence of the PA's bad behaviour, rather it gives both of them a chance to be aware of the natural consequences of his behaviour.