It's normal to look at attractive women. Right?

[Phil413]

I hope it's okay if I chime in here, I am an SO. Four seconds counting one thousand one, ect., is quite a long time to look at someone. Imagine making eye contact with a complete stranger for that long. It would be weird and uncomfortable.

I have to agree with you here and say that I've never understood the concept of allowing a certain number of seconds to stare at a woman. My own rule is much simpler: as soon as I become aware that I'm staring, I quit staring. Simple as that. I guess you could call it the "zero second rule."

Phil

[Amethyst]

This is a bitof a tough one for me too - lately I've tried to think of an attractive woman I see regularly or even brifly as some to actually engage as anoyher person tather than as just an image such as getting to know her in an appropriqte way which moves her more to a real person tayher than just an image - I like what a SO said - words or a glance can be done in the same way but depnding on the spirit of my action the wman can take it as a nice thing or a nasty thing

[Zachary]

This is where I'm having the trouble on my road to recovery as well. I was going to post a thread about it myself, but then I found this one. For me, I don't even realize that I'm staring. I have no recollection of doing so, but my SO sees it, and is terribly hurt by my behavior. I want to stop my wandering eye for good, because my partner means so much to me, and I don't want another single soul on this Earth, save her. I'm certainly not trying to endanger our relationship, but when it happens unbeknown to me, she gets very depressed (rightfully so) and I don't want her to think a "quick fix" is more important to me than her. I agree with the 'zero second rule', but does anyone have any suggestions of what to do if you don't even realize you're staring in public?

P.S. I apologize if it seems I am highjacking this comment thread. If it would be more appropriate to post my question in thread of my own creation, please let me know.

[likeafish34]

Responding to previous posts, I think that if a woman sees you staring at her, it could make her very uncomfortable and is therefore unacceptable regardless of how many seconds you do it for. However, there are times when a woman will not see you looking (e.g. when you're driving, when she is facing the other way, etc). In those situations, is it unacceptable to look?

Here are my current views. I'm now almost three weeks into my recovery and I've noticed lots of changes. One of the changes is that I'm objectifying women far less and that also means that its much rarer for me to look at a woman and fantasise. Having said that, I am still male and I am attracted to some women. That fact is not an insult to my wife and she doesn't feel upset or threatened by it. In fact she occasionally tells me that she thinks another man is attractive. I don't think that finding another person attractive is a fault. Dwelling on it, fantasising about it or making that person or your partner upset about is the only problem

Zachary,
Don't worry about hijacking this thread. I think your question is very closely associated with my original post.
I'm afraid that I can't really help with your particular problem. Fortunately for me, I've always known when I'm looking. Some of the other guys might be able to help though.

Simon

[ToddR]

Do you find yourselves attracted to women?

I find myself somewhere between "attracted" and admiring -

Do you think its okay?

Not just okay but an essential part of our job description -

Is it more powerful in us addicts?

. . . only speaking for myself -
I would more equate said "power" as being residue --- the resonating glow that would taint the horizon as I stepped away from the monitor --- fresh from perusing those endless pixelated images as my reality was viewed through porn-colored glasses -

No. I was not attracted to women. I was reviewing them --- I was virtually "clicking" them as if they were contained within one of my favorite porn sites --- "clicking" meant that I would view, not look, as if each woman was another download --- hence, one of the few problems with a high speed DSL connection is that you are able to "click" with amazing speed --- after hours of "clicking" my mind became my monitor while my eyes became my mouse >>> "clicking" as fast as I could find the next female --- yes female

Which translates into any female of age --- plus or minus a few years --- as aggressive as that sounds it is unfortunately the truth --- when you are on the crest of a pornographic wave you just want to ride it as long as you can --- that means just as it happens on the internet --- "girls" unfortunately make it into the PA's consideration --- that means high school girls --- as out of bounds as that sounds I need to put it into writing for my own benefit to remind myself how out of control I was -

"Power". "Residue". However you would like to label it --- in the end, I found it over-"power"ing. In retrospect, I find it daunting that something that is so accessible can have such a brainwashing effect.

Do you try to avoid it, in case it leads to unhelpful trains of thought and temptation?

. . . tough one to answer -

I work with younger and very attractive women. Therefore, it would difficult to avoid them let alone avoid looking at them.

Fortunately, as I have said within my recovery journal --- I work two jobs with the second temporary job being retail. The pay scale is much lower than the "day" job which naturally brings forth those that do not have enough experience to supersede the minimum wage. There are a few career employees but the majority are either transient or college students --- one of which is a pixie-ish girl --- I call her a "girl" but in actuality she is a "woman" of 22.

When she was first hired I found myself guardedly looking --- more reviewing than looking --- then admiring more than reviewing --- but looking too much all the same --- yeah yeah. I work with her but that does not justify coming very close or somewhat crossing that line of making the "look-ee" uncomfortable -

"Fortunately", as I said earlier --- this second job employs a number of kids in their early 20s --- "kids" because this poster is about to reach that pinnacle age of 50 --- a half century!!! --- so, yes --- these employees are "kids" because technically they could be my "kids" --- anyways --- one night when we were waiting for the manager to count out the night's money and let us go we stood around and started talking some small talk --- the subject of age come up with everyone kinda making fun of the girl that looked "pixie-ish" --- everyone miscalculated her age by making her out to being much younger --- the same was true with me as they made me out to be much younger also --- upon my admission, the girl that I had been "admiring" was quite surprised as I didn't look nor act my age --- I guess I can take that as a compliment --- but, the "fortunate" aspect was that she bluntly stated that her father was just one year older than men and didn't act anything like me -

. . . And --- there's the rub -

This girl is someone's daughter --- someone'e daughter --- not some high resolution download --- not some playmate of the month --- but a woman in the present. More importantly, she was not deserving of my intense admiration but instead a real person that should treated as a co-worker.

And, there is the key to my killing the "power" --- a mind shift from an object to be rated (and berated) to a person that now looks at me as practically a father figure. And, no. I am not now or have I ever been a "who's your Daddy?" kinda guy.

In the shadow of this realization, I have encountered many 'o beautiful women. And, within each instance, there is a way to make them stay as women --- not as objects --- not as triggers for a relapse --- not as a player within your fantasy --- and, most definitely, not as a justification for masturbation.

By overcoming that first overindulgence, I basked in the pride of my strength. To me, that feeling was stronger than the impulse to essentially violate these women by capturing them in your mind to be used as a reference when you are at home sitting in front of the computer with your eyes on your monitor and your pants down by your ankles.

Each little avoidance of a sexual speed bump allowed me to gain strength --- to build my self esteem --- and, eventually, to distance myself from my addiction to online pornography.

[gnein]

Now obviously, certain people are beautiful and pleasing to look at. There is nothing wrong with acknowleding that beauty; but there is no need to stare at or focus on it. If someone catches your eye, look away and mentally acknowledge the beauty (as you would a sunset), without looking back. This way you validate the beauty and your desire without feeding it. This, I believe, will lead to less mental conflict.

This post pretty much nails it. Of course some people are going to be physically attractive to us, after all, people who aren't PA still have sx lives and find others attractive. However, there has to be a limit and you have to discipline yourself. If you stare at someone for too long, you'll not only feed the injection, but also possibly creep out the person you're staring at. Neither of those is a good outcome. That said, I did find myself staring at this evening's sunset because it really was a beautiful one. I hope I didn't creep it out!

I hope it's okay if I chime in here, I am an SO. Four seconds counting one thousand one, ect., is quite a long time to look at someone. Imagine making eye contact with a complete stranger for that long. It would be weird and uncomfortable. When a guy looks at me longer than a couple of seconds, I start getting that creeped out vibe. I know he's staring/oogling--and honestly, it is uncomfortable and unnappreciated. A complimentary, appreciating look should be a couple of seconds, IMO, at the most. This is from the viewpoint of a woman.

I'm glad you chimed in here, because it's another important point. PA's, or any other men, who stare at women often think their staring goes unnoticed, and that somehow makes it "alright". BIH's post above reminds us that most of the time, the women *do* notice, and can also read our body language if we're standing their fantasising about them. They know what's going on, and so does every other woman in the room probably.

I think the best way to handle it is to try to draw your focus back to whatever you're doing at the time. Sure, an attractive female might grab your attention for a couple of seconds, but once you've acknowledged that, you should go back to concentrating on whatever you're doing. Easier said than done sometimes, but it's a good strategy to avoid staring.

[Jon Doe 109]

I feel brief eye contact is good and polite, but don't stare or scan bodies it makes people uncomfortable.