Is Mb ok?

[chasman62]

As per usual the words Daniel, nail, and head belong in the same sentence. For 'normies' occasional MB is no big deal, is not the exclusive province of males, and does not create any problems. For the sexual compulsive it is a different story, and though some may be able to destroy the compulsion whilst still MBing I think it would be very difficult. For me personally once I removed the whole 'thrill' of the online P quests and sexchatting the urge to MB disappeared as well.

One thing I would add Y, although with the caveat that I am not in the least bit religious to say the least, is that focusing on an essentially negative view of ending behaviors is not a good approach. Quitting P and, if necessary (and certainly for most of us it is necessary), MB because they are 'sinful' and you believe you will be 'punished' if you do not is not healthy and will not produce success. If you do not succeed absolutely you will feel more shame and guilt because in your worldview you have 'failed' your deity.

Focus on the many positive aspects to breaking the cycle of compulsion and do not do this thinking that failure will bring punishment.

[Yechezkel]

Thank you guys for all the heartfelt in-depth replies, I really dont know what to say, this is the most support I have ever received in my life from any online group,

I have decided that for now I will try my best not to Mb and if it happens I will keep my mind clear of all images and I will not look at P, I will attempt to slowly stop Mb all together, but the longest I have ever gone without Mb has got to be maybe 2 weeks, I have K-9 installed on my computer now, (thanks to all you guys's support and encouragement) and I am curious to see if the urge to Mb decreases with the increased time P free.

Thank you guys,


Yechezkel.

[brandon7]

I don't look upon it as a sin (not really important in my religion), but having tried to giving up porn at the same time as continuing mb, I can say that I found it too difficult to control.
MB lead to more MB, lead to viewing a little bit of porn, lead to getting right back into full blown porn addiction.

Do whatever you need to do, but be careful not to get dragged back into porn.

Simon

very well said. ive personally gone through the same thing trying to quit in the past, on my own.

[Jon Doe 109]

I'm an atheist so I don't see MB as a sin, or as unnatural or unhealthy. I think in moderation it's fine as it physically releases sxual tension. I think if you're addicted to MB then it's a problem and it may reflect a lack of pleasure, happiness and meaning in other areas of your life. I think the P industry is objectifying, exploitative, sexist and profit driven and supporting it is unhealthy for your psyche your outlook on women and society in general. I have quit both P and MB mainly to quit P addiction. I recognize that they are tied and I need to break that tie by quitting all of it. Get out of the house, exercise, do something social w people, volunteer, get some hobbies, read some new material, become a more well rounded, educated and responsible human - as your life gains meaning your need for P and MB should lesson.

[Vorlan]

This is a good debate and one which I've found myself on both sides of. Back when I first joined this site (2008?) I came down heavily on the side against MB and only recently have I changed my mind.

I think that usually when people first quit they need to also take some time off MB. Part of this is to separate MB from P and part of it is to proove to themselves that they can go without it if they choose to. It's very empowering to realise that. As a single late teen I went without MB for well over a year despite raging hormones and peer pressure so long term abstinence is certainly very much achievable.

However personally I've recently decided not to prohibit MB and I now MB once a week - this MB is schedualed for a specific day and is regular and predictable. I feel I can and should do this because to me MB is not morally wrong and because I can now MB without P and even without fantisizing. This is something I couldn't have done back when my recovery started. My aim is to make MB something which has no massive significance in my life - to tame it. The plan specifically aims to prevent me using MB as a crutch or as something for dealing with stress, anxiety, lonliness etc. By making it regualr and predicatable I prevent myself seeing it as an easy way to medicate problems.

I think the generally accepted view in the past on TTF is that MB is not acceptable within a relationship and that if you are single then it is very much a matter of personal opinion and conscience.

To me MB is healthy and no longer a trigger but to another person it could be just another compulsion or a trigger to view P.

This issue has been discussed a lot in the past on the site. Here are a couple of good threads debating it:

What are your opinions on masturbation W/O porn?

Anyone who is not against masturbation?

Best wishes.

Ben

[Phil413]

However personally I've recently decided not to prohibit MB and I now MB once a week - this MB is schedualed for a specific day and is regular and predictable. I feel I can and should do this because to me MB is not morally wrong and because I can now MB without P and even without fantisizing. This is something I couldn't have done back when my recovery started. My aim is to make MB something which has no massive significance in my life - to tame it.

Hi Ben,

I want to urge you to be careful here. Human sexuality is a powerful thing, and not easily tamed. It is, however, easily warped. That's why we're all here. I'm worried that if you try to reduce sex to a scheduled, mechanical, almost robotic action of "no massive significance," completely divorced from any meaning, or even any sexual thoughts or feelings, you may succeed. You may condition yourself to experience sex as a purely mechanical -- and entirely self-centered -- action, with all the pleasure and meaning of a sneeze. If you do this, you may find that you are inadvertently crippling your ability to later experience the fullness and meaning and joy and pleasure of a real sexual relationship with a real person. I urge you to think about how you are training your body to experience sex, and to think about the possible long-term consequences of that training.

Phil

[chasman62]

I can sort of see both sides of this. I don't really understand your approach Ben, but if it is working for you then fine. It does seem to me that if you basically turn MB into some sort of perfunctory scheduled activity then that would suggest that you can cease and desist from it completely. For me, at least, if you take away sexually stimulating materials then I couldn't do it anyway (I suppose maybe at gunpoint but you get the idea), and certainly wouldn't get any enjoyment out of it. I know Phil is an absolutist and I admire him for that but again, to me, the issues are the dual ones of compulsively seeking sexually explicit material to MB to (or in my case women to have explicit conversations etc with) and needing to deceive ones SO about it in order to continue in the activity, and not the absolute issue of whether all of that is innately 'wrong'.

So for me the whole phrasing of the question is 'wrong' since there is no correct answer.

[Vorlan]

Okay, I don’t think I’ve explained myself very well so I feel I have to clarify.

My approach stems from the idea that MB is not bad in itself in moderation but what is bad is binging on it and obsessing over it. Unfortunately as a PA I'm not great at moderation! :P That is where the plan comes in. The goal of the plan is to allow myself MB in moderation without the option of going overboard and to therefore reduce the effect MB has on recovery- that's what I meant by "tame". The plan isn't to stop enjoying MB or to aim to permenantly stunt my enjoyment of sx. That as you rightly point out Phil would be a very bad idea! :)

Hopefully that clears up my meaning a bit and I look a bit less loony now! :D

Best wishes,

Ben

[Edge]

[QUOTE=Phil413;54486]The root of both P and MB is the same: lust. When you look at P or you MB, you feed and strengthen lust within you. Also, MB is itself addictive, and just like P use it requires ever-greater stimulus to give the same effect. That's why most of us graduate to P use in the first place. After awhile, MB by itself just doesn't cut it. Adding P to the mix gives us the level of stimulation we crave, that MB alone used to give us. Of course, after awhile, MB and P together don't give us enough stimulus, so we have to do them more frequently, and use more depraved forms of P.

Thanks Phil. Your words cut to the heart of the matter, and provide perhaps the best answer I've yet read to 'mb: yay or nay?" question.