Discouraged, but slightly hopeful.

[ReadytoQuit]

I want to take this oppurtunity to post how incredibly discouraged I have become lately. My goal this summer was to get a stranglehold on this addiction and looking back now all I can see is a large number of relapses and failed attempts. A part of me thinks intellectually about the problem and overanalyzes the problem in my mind. It tells me to quit, that there is something more to life than animalistic behavior, but the other part of me feels like it's not even me, as if my body is acting out and I'm not in control, my thoughts tell me to stop but my body proceeds. I still see a glimmer of hope, but it's hard to see. The truth is that in a way I feel like I'm truly frightened by recovery, I have felt such a shame, such a depression throughout my teenage years, (I am now 20) that I have become accustomed to this depression, this shame. It's all I know really. Tonight, in a way, I feel hopeful, but seeing as I have not been able to accomplish a week or even two in over a year or two, it's discouraging and frightening, but I am not sure how much longer of this I can take, this emptiness, this depression, this shame, this failure. I feel like I live a very lonely life, and I wonder how if stopping P and MB would actually create any major differences in my life. I live in a tiny town where all my friends have moved away and I used to have a lot of them, not one of them is here now, but I've been taking the bus to a nearby city which takes 45 minutes to get to one way and I have been trying to be more outgoing and been hanging out with friends more, but even with people I feel this loneliness, this emptiness, inside of me. What kills me the most is that I am an artist, and this addiction has stolen that from me, one of the things that I value the most in the world. I feel like I cannot concentrate on any of my work, that I eventually go to the computer when all that time could be used to make something instead of wasted on P. If anyone read this, I am extremely greatful and appreciative. Lastly, I am curious about the problem that is hardest to overcome in my addiction and that is sleeping. During the night is when my shame takes place. I try to avoid it but I have an incredibly hard time falling sleep, as of lately it's been even harder. I lay in bed up to 3-4 hours and I feel like I have so much anxiety and stress that I eventually cave in because I want some rest and sense of peace. My sleeping schedule is off track right now and has been for a month and I have not been able to get it on the right track and it's hard because I end up not tired at night, I have tried staying up for longer than 24 hours and attempting to sleep at a reasonable time but it seems like succeeding is almost like a rarity with me without MB and P. When I do fall asleep I wake up 3-4 times in the night, and it's hard for me to fall back asleep every time, it becomes very stressful and difficult, I feel like I am going insane sometimes. Any tips, or feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time, if you have gotten this far.

[OpenEyes]

ReadytoQuit, I am a PA and I am months into this with one relapse. Lets start at the basics and make a game plan for you, more or less. You want to quit, you realize you have no control over this. That is step one, realizing you are a PA.

Step two, get rid of all the P you have. This helps you feel like you are breaking a bond with it. If you have none left in your home, it is all on the PC, then do something that cleans your PC, like deleting histories, any back up files, and listing your former P sites and forbidden. K-9 is a free internet filter and works pretty well. If you do not have someone you trust with this, then keep the password as a long complicated thing you have to see to retype and then keep it somewhere inconvenient, like in a bible or in your attic.

Step three makes some lists. One is why you want to quit P. Another is the benefits of quitting P. A third may be what your triggers are. Another may be things that help you get past anxiety, like working out, soft music or meditation. These lists may help you get your mind around the steps you need for you!

Step four is getting some good habits going. There is a chemical addiction in your brain due to P use, recognize it and know you will need to treat it like a drug withdraw that will take weeks. When you feel depressed, anxious, nervous, know you will feel that craving, have something you can do to combat it: a pocket game boy, a personal journal that is not on your PC, phone to call and talk to a friend, a hobby that can be worked on at a moment’s notice.

Step five is a hard one. Self exploration. Find out why you are a PA. Try this one after you make it two weeks or so, any earlier and you may stress yourself out. I have compared PA to a bomb a few times. Avoiding triggers may keep the bomb from going off, but finding out why you are a PA, what personality traits, what life experiences made you ready and susceptible to becoming a PA will help defuse the bomb. It will always be there (PA) but, then bumping a trigger will not set you back to square one, but may just be uncomfortable.

These are just my suggestions but I think they may help you since you seems to be very analytical. Get your game plan in order, then start on it and maybe even make checklists for yourself as to what you have done, what you intend to do. Each thing done right, without relapse, is something to be proud of, something to value.

I wish you strength, peace and an open heart.

[maggie]

Ready to Quit,

OpenEyes has given you a solid, tested and proven game plan to beat this addiction.

It can be done. Honest. But, the strategies he listed for you are necessary to gain back control of your urges, and from what I've read the physical and pyschological urges are what cause relapse.

My advice to you is more of a ' motherly ' type of advice.

You sound very depressed. A person who is sad and lonely is more easily tempted to turn to something that can be done in isolation, in private and feels good temporarilly.

The problem is, as you seem to already be aware of, is that this isolating behavior, that has to be done in private and in secret, builds a bigger wall around you and your depression.

Many of the other consequences and behavioral changes due to p use have been written about here and in other scientific research studies. None are good.
You need to connect to people in a gratifying, enjoyable way, and porn prevents that.

OK... About your " body acting out " or your lack of control and the anxiety and stress that is temporarilly relieved if you act out with porn. There is a very good reason for al of that. Nothing is wrong with you. Your body has been chemically trained to crave certain brain chemicals, like oxytocin and dopamine, that are realeased after mb.
These feel good chemicals also help you to relax, and so you have set up a pattern at night to rid your body of stress and relax. It almost sounds innocent, but it is not.

You will have to find a way to produce those same feel good endorphins and brain chemicals through exercise or getting involved with happy, good young adults. That's another problem you mentioned, all of your friends moving away. This is a tough one, but the fact that you are trying to meet up in the city 45 min away ... is GREAT. Don't give that up. You need other people right now.

Keep posting here and don't give up. You are very wise at 20 to even realize that you have a problem with p. Don't give up on yourself.

[ReadytoQuit]

Thank you very much for the responses.

[Rowlf]

Hey RTQ,

I can endorse what MaggieLiz is saying. I've been through depression cycles quite a few times and I found increasingly that it was PA that was keeping me depressed.

I'd have some upset or other and 'use'. In the very short term it would act as anesthetic. In the medium term I would find myself drained of all energy, of all life force and just be going through the next week or so like a zombie.

For myself, I'm sure that I was screwing up my brain chemistry. I found this which speaks about that. For myself it takes a few weeks clean before my brain chemistry and my thinking and my senses are clear.

So, RTQ, set yourself a plan, identify your triggers and work out a plan in advance of a different way of handling them. Stresses will occur. The old way was P. That way is now closed. An old 'friend' and support is gone. You need to work out new supports and in time they will turn into much firmer friends that P is. Try some exercise for example. If you get the urge, imediately switch off the computer at the mains and get out for a walk...

Just take it one minute, one hour, one day at a time. You CAN stay clean today.

Have a good one.

Rowlf

[Valente Fitness]

A couple of disclaimers:

1. I am new here, so I'm not at liberty to really be giving advice. So I'll just offer my thoughts without trying to push my views on anyone.

2. Please don't kick me off the site for me bringing up what I'm about to discuss, but its an obvious issue, and not to bring it up would be kind of foolish.

I took psychology in university and I learned about a thing called cognitive dissonance... which is essentially two thoughts that are going on in your head at the same time and they are not compatible with each other and this incompatibility creates the dissonance.. which in your case sounds like guilt, depression, etc...

The first thought you have is that you can't go a week without MB or P.

The second thought you have is that when you give in to it you are doing something wrong and you are a bad person.

I do agree P has a lot of negative effects, and a world without P would be a better place.

But I think its important to differentiate between P and MB.

MB is different from P. They are not the same thing.

You are 20 years old and as long as you are reasonably healthy, the MB in my opinion is not something that you should be beating yourself up over. This is something that physically builds up in your body and you can't change that, and telling yourself that you are bad because of what naturally builds up in your body is going to give you a huge amount of dissonance.

If I could I would do everything I could to rid this world of P. But I would hate to confuse that issue with something that is a naturally occurring thing, especially at age 20 and to beat yourself up over.

I think you are at risk of damaging your self esteem by beating yourself up and denying which is naturally occurring at your age... and damaging your self esteem would create a ton of cognitive problems that are serious and lasting for the rest of your life.

So how about working to avoid P altogether, and having some balance with MB? That sounds realistic, normal, and healthy.

Thank you for allowing a dissenting opinion.

I look forward to reading your thoughts on it.

[maggie]

Valente & CF

Yes, but.... the two are intricately intertwined and in battling an addiction like PA, it would be risky as well as impossible to completely separate the two.

If you go back and search the posts here in 08 & 09, you will see this arguement or premise is discussed over and over and then fades away.

Dr. Patrick Carnes, the leading expert on PA, and author of 3+ books on the subject talks about this. He has worked with many sxl addictions and many of them claim they just have a higher need or sx drive than other people. Dr. Carnes explains to them that looking at p, causes this over stimulation. If that is what a person is viewing and feeding their mind with, the predictable result will be over stimulation and a need for mb or acting out.

I agree that normal biological drives in a single 20 yo male may lead to mb, but overindulgence in anything, even normal things like eating, can quickly get out of control.

In over eating, one's glucose levels quickly surge, but when they come down they crash to such low levels, the bodys craves more. The body's not hungry, but the body chemicals get out of balance. Not a healthy cycle.

[Daniel]

My question to anyone at all on the site, and feel free to answer me on the board or by PM, how can a PA, either starting recovery or having been in recovery for a long time, return to a normal, healthy s*x life without the guilt that has become intertwined with P?

City Fool,

This is a great question. And it is a complicated question.

I submit my views as one viewpoint in the marketplace of ideas, with you freely choosing the one that fits your circumstances and beliefs etc.

If a child raised in a nuclear family with everyone fulfilling their nuturing/child-raising roles in the proper way, taking care to not bring things into the family/household that will be ill for the kids (too much booze, P mags/movies, abuse, anger, screaming, fighting, etc., etc.) then the kids will grow up (assuming a lot but bear with me) with at least a semi-normal view of sx and sxuality.

I have my own special circumstances from my family of origin, and I just realized I have spent zero time analyzing how I used to view the opposite sex when I was a teenager, or 20 etc. I can guarantee it was way WAY below what my standards are today.'

You basically start out "normal".

Things happen in your life and you react the best way you know how.

Perhaps using P more often to cope (and a lot of other rationalizations of course).

Your P use begins to twist your "normal-ness" into something that is not normal.

In my case, I became a Christian at age 21, acknowledging Christ' saving work for me, confessing my [many] sins and unloading truckloads of guilt. Unfortunately the P use, while stopped temporarily, did come back. But it was in direct tension to the many admonishments within Christianity to live a pure, holy, undefiled life, to be free from immoral entanglements; and if this is done with some measure of success, God is not just pleased, but I get the gigantic fringe benefits of a clean conscience, self-respect, self-confidence, etc,. etc.

Over a lot of time and a lot of effort, including time here, the P use has stopped.

And the sxual part of life, particularly the way it's thought about, has returned to the normal it should have been the entire time.

So YES, it is possible to return to normal IMHO.

Daniel

Am I making sense?

Yes!

[ReadytoQuit]

Thank you all for the responses, reading about what chemically happens in my brain is very mind opening. While reading the article posted, I realized how familiar all the symtpoms were to me. I am determined to get to a state where I no longer have these compulsions of anxiety, and ultimately to recover. I relapsed not too long ago, and went on a sort of a binge, but feel like I am in a point in my life where I have to decide what I really want. I realized one of the things that motivates me most to end this is looking towards my future and aspirations. With school just around the corner, it all feels like a fresh start, and I'm determined to succeed. Thank you for posting the information of cognitive dissonance, I found this as a sort of wake up call for me:"
I think you are at risk of damaging your self esteem by beating yourself up and denying which is naturally occurring at your age... and damaging your self esteem would create a ton of cognitive problems that are serious and lasting for the rest of your life." As I feel like dealing with this issue has done so much damage to my self esteem. Although it's only my second day without P or MB, I will succeed. For all of you who are new as I am on here, I know that we can succeed. I know it.

[everlight]

RTQ - Your experience echoes my own. I've suffered a lot of loneliness and depression and even more serious mental illness. I used P as a way out. That makes it all the more difficult to fight.

The first step aside from what everyone already mentioned is to believe you can do it. Take some walks in the sunlight. Sounds cheesy, but it helps. Find something that inspires you or occupies your times.

And masturbation without P is OK and perfectly natural. Don't become celibate unless you have other religious reasons for doing so.