Anyone who is not against masturbation?

[maninpain]

Remember, no woman can compete with fantasy.
If you are using porn without your spouses knowledge, then you are cheating on them.
You can not possibly kick your porn habit and still MB

[TakingMeBack]

What would pornography be without masturbating? Actually my main battle is not with pornography but rather with masturbation. I would collect experiences from my day, and then eagerly pull from my memory as I fantasized about the "what ifs" with women of my daily grind.

With a particular woman in mind I would search the internet for a close substitute. Often times I didn't need the images at all, because my vivid imagination would do all of the work.

Ultimately I found myself disturbed by my lust. Masturbation wasn't healthy because it was deteriorating my real life relationships, at least in my own mind. As Paul warns in his letter to the Romans, "Because for the mind to be given up to earthly things means death; but for it to be given up to spiritual things means Life and peace." (Romans 8:6 - Weymouth New Testament) Planting those seeds of lust in my mind, and enforcing them with the hormonal rush of masturbation, conditioned my mind to see only those fantasies when I would meet a woman. I am sure that I have lost out on a great number of human relationships because I wasn't looking at a whole person when face to face with an attractive woman.

"To gain energy, we tend to manipulate or force others to give us attention and thus energy. When we successfully dominate others in this way, we feel more powerful, but they are left weakened and often fight back. Competition for scarce, human energy is the cause of all conflict between people." (The Fourth Insight , The Celestine Prophecy)

[dave42]

Hi, Everyone! Well, when I started this thread a while back I had no idea the responses would be so engaging and thought provoking. One thing I love about this website is that people disagree respectfully. We all have so much stress dealing with our addiction, that the last thing we need is more stress, I guess.

I want to assert this to all of you guys: good luck to all of you in your particular struggle. If MB is a problem, then I will support you in giving it up. If it isn't a problem, then I'll support you in giving up P only. If you are experimenting with what works for you, be very careful, right? Okay, good luck everyone! All the best, Dave42 (Now 43, so I'll just call myself Dave

[PAAnon]

In AA they say if you go the bar often enough, you will get drunk.

Is there healthy masturbation? I am only 6 days free of this mind rot and have tried M twice. I remembered thinking how P was so totally attached to the actions and outcome.

Without it, I just felt the physical feelings and trying to go with it.

I still did not like my emotional attitude afterwards, although it was miles above the "afterwards" when using P.

So, I have not relapsed into viewing P before, during or after the MB. I still have no desire for looking at that mind rot and getting back the old feelings of self hatred and being less than and the ensuing bouts of self-pity accompanied with ego-maniacal actions.

I hate to be punny: I will worry about it when it comes up.

I continue to follow a 12-step pattern for recovering from this addiction.

The spiritual approach, rather any religious oriented one, seems to work best for me. I have a conception of my higher power (god) and now that I have stopped this mind rot from entering through my eyes, I am amazed at how quickly any of the residual imagery that was always present and kept me obsessed is pretty much gone. Relieved. Deleted.

If just a religious code or morals and values were able to stop any of my addictions, I would be a devout _______.....

I asked for assistance from a spiritual god. God responded when I was ready to have it happen.

PAAnon.

[showmelove]

I just want to give my small experience on this because I have tried going without P both with and without MB. First time I stopped looking at P I did MB and I think that was ok. At first my MB fantasies where highly inspired by P. But as time went on they became more normal. For me P is definetly much more destructive than MB.

This time around I hardly do any MB and I havn't had an orgasm for close to 6 weeks. I have had ups and downs but in general I have felt better about myself than I've done in a long time. I don't get nervous socially as easy, I stand up for myself much more, I am more positive. I do not know if most of this is because I quit MB but it feels like the effect of quitting p was enlarged by also quitting MB. I don't know if it is going to be possible to go without MB or sx for a very long time but for now it feels good.

[PAAnon]

"With a particular woman in mind I would search the internet for a close substitute. Often times I didn't need the images at all, because my vivid imagination would do all of the work."

Holy Moly.

You hit my 30+ year old P trigger RIGHT on the BULLSEYE!

I am not alone anymore.

I started to ask myself what it was that was driving this.

I believe that I have been attempting to replace the love that I could have had from parents and girlfriends with the fake stuff.

Thanks!

[Paul]

PAAnon & showmelove - Thanks - very helpful and encouraging responses for me......Paul

[TakingMeBack]

I believe that I have been attempting to replace the love that I could have had from parents and girlfriends with the fake stuff.

When talking about the power of the imagination, one of my mentor's told me that "You only spin so much gold a day." In any given moment you have infinite potential for thought, but patterns of thinking are generally driven by the most recent influences of memory. In the psychological field, Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy teaches that irrational thoughts plague the human potential for growth by stunting one's perception of the moment that they are in. If we are using our powerful minds to create internalized masturbatory fantasy, the end result is not only a waste of brilliance, but also a stifling of actual development with others and ourselves. Masturbation is like treading water, all of the muscles are exhausted but the swimmer hasn't ventured forward for all of the time spent thrashing.

Love doesn't exist when we are afraid of offering it to another person. That is the greatest tragedy of the pornographer's trap; their depictions of beauty are caricatures of truth in which women are always willing to diminish their being to accommodate the desires of the viewer. The most destructive aspect of this allure is that the viewer is not required to give anything to justify these empowering returns. Pornography makes the viewers feel powerful while actually draining away their power. We are left feeling inept, because ultimately we did not accomplish what we witnessed, and in this emptiness after the consumption we desire another fix--either in the realm of fantasy or more detrimentally in the actual world. When relationships with women don't come as readily as the women we have witnessed a little bit of our power is sucked away. When we feel uncomfortable (for no good reason) a bit of that confidence is lost and the viscious cycle pulls us back to the worst place we could find ourselves: Masturbating to fantasy rather than fulfilling more wholesome dreams. After lengthy evidence of the potential of a mere thought to change the universe through the law of attraction, The Secret asks "Are your thoughts worthy of you? If not - NOW is the time to change them. You can begin right were you are right now. Nothing matters but this moment and what you are focusing your attention on."

[showmelove]

TakingMeBack,

I really liked you thoughts on this, very well written! What would you say would be the best way to gain back the confidence that's been lost by using P other than the obvious avoidance of it?

[Farmer]

This time around I hardly do any MB and I havn't had an orgasm for close to 6 weeks. I have had ups and downs but in general I have felt better about myself than I've done in a long time. I don't get nervous socially as easy, I stand up for myself much more, I am more positive. I do not know if most of this is because I quit MB but it feels like the effect of quitting p was enlarged by also quitting MB. I don't know if it is going to be possible to go without MB or sx for a very long time but for now it feels good.

SML, like you, I have been abstaining from MB. I think we are at ease socially because we are not carrying any guilt or shame into our conversations. Even though people cannot read minds I always feared being found out, some how, some way. By going without MB, I too feel better physically and mentally. For how long, I don’t know either. I am curious, you say you hardly do any MB and haven’t had an orgasm for 6 weeks, do you mean that you are masturbating and stopping short of orgasm? I ask this only because my ritual was to MB for long periods and stop so I could stay mesmerized and in that zone if you will. I would MB everyday but reach orgasm 15 - 20 times a month. Currently I am abstaining from all MB activity and I think this is why I feel better physically. I was putting myself through a lot of physical abuse with my habit/addiction.

Farmer