Re-establishing healthy attitudes - non-sexual nudes and recovery?

[newstartforher]

This is more of a thought experiment and discussion than an exposition of what I believe. I'm still very much undecided on the matter, and would value the input of people who may have more knowledge about the psychological effects of porn, and those who are more experienced in the recovery process.

The way I see it, long-term porn usage (and any period long enough to establish an addiction is long-term) warps the mental attitude towards the human body. The human body becomes an object of lust and potential pleasure - it loses its intrinsic, natural beauty and becomes a means to an end. While the mind is 'programmed' in this way, it is very hard to have a healthy sexual relationship, or so I think I am justified in concluding.

Knowing that, can non-sexual nudes have a role in re-establishing healthy 'programming' of the human body as an object of admiration and wonder, quite separate from the emotions of lust and desire? By non-sexual nudes, I am talking primarily of artistic depictions of nudity without sexualised posing or insinuation, but not necessarily excluding those depictions intended to celebrate the beauty of the naked human form.

My initial concerns - it could be a slippery slope towards another binge. A non-sexual pose does not preclude sexual feelings towards it. The moment feelings become sexual, it is essentially porn.

The advantages I can initially see - the establishment of a healthy middle way in the mind; human bodies are neither the objectified sexual item presented in porn, nor an object of fear or distaste.

I would be interested in hearing what people have to say. My gut feeling is that it could be of some use in late recovery, once the addiction itself is as good as overcome, and it is only the root causes and aftermath that have to be overcome. Personally, though the idea intrigues me, I am treating it with great caution. I don't feel that I am yet in a position to risk the exposure to essentially the same raw material (naked ladies) that I have weaned myself off.


Ben

[Daniel]

I would be interested in hearing what people have to say. My gut feeling is that it could be of some use in late recovery, once the addiction itself is as good as overcome, and it is only the root causes and aftermath that have to be overcome. Personally, though the idea intrigues me, I am treating it with great caution. I don't feel that I am yet in a position to risk the exposure to essentially the same raw material (naked ladies) that I have weaned myself off.

NSFH,

Exactly.

I would not view the types of material you suggest as a method for the recovery of a pure appreciation (vs. feeding an overwhelming addiction).

For obvious reasons the two things (P and non-sxual nudity) are just too close in terms of subject matter. The thinking has to only stray in the slightest degree and you're in the danger zone or worse.

The way it may apply is by incidental contact you see such a thing and because you are still succesfully recovering you don't suffer a full-blown relapse; or even better you simply move on without giving the object or person a second thought.

Daniel

[artguy34]

This is a good topic of discussion...

I would say that it is up to the addict to see for themselves if something is arousing them because of their inherited "Porn View" on the naked body.

When succumbed to P addiction, we tend to view things in a P kinda way. When we begin to recover, hopefully we tend to look at things the way they are intended to be. Hence like a nice oil painting depicting a scene which may have nudity in it, but not sexually suggestive. Admiring the artistry of it.

For me personally, I can enjoy seeing fine works of art and not be aroused by it, yet look at a s3xy calendar and think arousing thoughts. But thats what I have to battle personally. So I avoid viewing anything sexually suggestive. But playing devils advocate, I can view romantic scenes in movies and not get the "arousal" that P would give me because it is set in a romantic light. I guess its the P-S3X versus Healthy S3X issue I posted in a thread recently.

Just my take on this... but a very interesting topic. I hope more chime in on it!

[cyberpunk]

For me there is no such thing as non-sxual nudity. I have enough struggle trying to keep clean thoughts about a girl driving in a car or walking down the street. I think the best way to regain a wonder and admiration for the human body is to avoid seeing anyone but your SO nude.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

I have a few thoughts on this topic.

As an SO, I think looking at nudity, seeking it out, is a slippery path, even if it is artistic. If you want to re-program your thinking about healthy sexuality, try spending time with your SO (if you have one). Spend time with them and learn that your time together, in bed and out, has meaning and value way beyond the self-gratification that is PA.

This is an interesting topic, but I can see how looking at artistic nudity can lead to rationalizations. Think of it like an alcohol addiction. One drink can hurt, even if it is crappy cheap beer.

[gnein]

I have a few thoughts on this topic.

As an SO, I think looking at nudity, seeking it out, is a slippery path, even if it is artistic. If you want to re-program your thinking about healthy sexuality, try spending time with your SO (if you have one). Spend time with them and learn that your time together, in bed and out, has meaning and value way beyond the self-gratification that is PA.

I agree with this and I speak from experience when I say things like that can be a trigger. I live in a city is right by the beach which attracts a lot of tourists, and has a lot of shops selling beach apparel. It's amazing just how often the signs outside these shops which show women wearing bikinis can act as a trigger. It's something I constantly need to be aware of. I can only imagine that nudes would have a stronger effect.

I suppose perhaps if you've been clean for a long time you might be strong enough to resist the temptation if you were in an art gallery and accidently stumbled on to something like that, but I wouldn't voluntarily put myself in that situation.

[Crisodian]

I have a few thoughts on this topic.

As an SO, I think looking at nudity, seeking it out, is a slippery path, even if it is artistic. If you want to re-program your thinking about healthy sexuality, try spending time with your SO (if you have one). Spend time with them and learn that your time together, in bed and out, has meaning and value way beyond the self-gratification that is PA.

This is an interesting topic, but I can see how looking at artistic nudity can lead to rationalizations. Think of it like an alcohol addiction. One drink can hurt, even if it is crappy cheap beer.

As an SO, and a non-P addict in long term recovery, I have to completely agree with WoNLM, as well. This seems like a VERY slippery slope and lead down the path to justifications, rationalizations, and relapse.

I also concur with gnein. If you have been in PA recovery a long time and find you are strong enough to view artistic nudity without temptation, then maybe that is the right path for you.

But, IMO, I wouldn't put myself in that position.

~C~

[cyberpunk]

I've been thinking about this topic over the last day and I think one of the problems I, as a SA, hav is that I have become densitized to nudity and sx. The things that aroused me when I was a teenager don't give the same thrill anymore. Over the years I've sought out harder p while getting less of a thrill from it.

I can't "re-sensitize" myself by looking at softer P or even non-sxual nudity. The only way, I believe, to truly "re-sensitize" ourselves is absolute avoidance. I think the evidence of this is in the stories of the members who have had long periods of abstinence and how it has improved intimacy with their SO.

[Daniel]

The only way, I believe, to truly "re-sensitize" ourselves is absolute avoidance. I think the evidence of this is in the stories of the members who have had long periods of abstinence and how it has improved intimacy with their SO.

Cyber,

Yes, exactly.

I have not seen one example of where half-measures or deal making with our PA-side has worked towards the goal of overcoming P.

It has in fact worked the opposite way, with the slightest indulgence inviting more indulgence and down we go...

I can testify that the sensitivity does come back. Slowly. Something definitely worth working for.

Daniel

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

Daniel-

You are right. Half-measures and deal making seem to lead right back to where you started. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I think the half-measures and deal making are what lead to relapses. People talk themselves into doing what brought them here in the first place.

Thanks for your thoughts.