Empathy

[bethann27]

Do you have trouble experiencing empathy towards real, live people i.e. wife, mother, children? Thanks.

I've added the definition of empathy since it appears to be an often misunderstood word:

empathy : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

[edjames71]

Do you have trouble experiencing empathy towards real, live people i.e. wife, mother, children? Thanks.

For me during my addiction I didn't experience empathy. I couldn't let anyone close. I always kept those who I should have been the closest to me at a distance because those people could hurt me.

Now things are different....I'm learning to experience empathy now. It's a wonderful feeling.

[Hibiscus]

I hope more PAs chime in on this topic. I know my husband exhibited a tremendous lack of empathy over the years - not just towards me, but pretty much anyone. I often wonder how much of a role this plays in PA. Does a lack of empathy exist prior to the PA and make them more vulnerable to addiction? Or does an existing level of empathy diminish, or completely vanish, as the addiction grows?

I also believe this may be one of the key changes an SO can look for in their PA as a sign of true recovery. I'm witnessing this growth of empathy in my own husband and it's just amazing to witness.

[bethann27]

I also believe this may be one of the key changes an SO can look for in their PA as a sign of true recovery. I'm witnessing this growth of empathy in my own husband and it's just amazing to witness.

Thanks Hibiscus - My intuition (which I'm beginning to trust again) tells me this is true & I'm so glad to see this post this morning.

bethann

[bethann27]

For me during my addiction I didn't experience empathy. I couldn't let anyone close. I always kept those who I should have been the closest to me at a distance because those people could hurt me.

Now things are different....I'm learning to experience empathy now. It's a wonderful feeling.

Thank you for responding. It really does help me understand why my DH has done some of the things he has. Glad to hear that you are beginning to have that wonderful feeling that caring for others gives :)

bethann

[burnedout]

I'd say I've always been pretty clueless where others' feelings are concerned. If forums like this weren't around, I'm not sure I'd be able to understand what SOs or pretty much anybody else goes through emotionally. I'm just now beginning to understand what my classmates went through in jr. high because of a group someone started on it. I guess I feel kind of robotic, like Commander Data or something, but I think I'm getting better as I get older.

[HopefulsRock]

Bethann... I certainly didn't have much empathy when I was consumed by this addiction but since being clean and sober from it for 14 months I have been slowly gaining it back! A good indicator of this is the fact that I get all choked up and cry so easily now... especially when I see so clearly the hurt it causes you SO's and I think how I was a part of that! ...it saddens me and I'm sorry for that! But I will say that if I hadn't went through all this I don't know as I ever would have fully gotten just how badly PA & MB can damage relationships and people!

Thanks for posing this question... it's good to delve into the how's and why's of this addiction...

[IN NEED OF HELP]

empathy, what is that?. It is most defiantly not in a ADDICTS vocabulary. when we was feeding our addiction, we cared about no one but us. It just showed, that we had no feelings about anyone else. no one else mattered, as long as we was using.

But being 6 months free from this, empathy start coming back into our lives. I wont lie here, when it was brought to light about my addiction, I just had a hard time seeing why, just looking at things on the computer, would bring so much pain, to your SO. but as I got deeper into my recovery, I came to see, that what I was doing, was no different, as if I had been with another woman

I do agree with rock, in how it makes us feel, when we see a woman, going through so much pain, because of this addiction, and what it does to a relationship. Not only do I wish, my SO never had to go through this, but I wish, no woman had to. No woman, deserves to be treated the way, us addicts treated, the woman, we are suppose to love with all of our hearts.

I am experiencing empathy today, when at 7:55 am this morning, a woman from my SAA group, decided to call my phone. Now I see her reliving all of this pain once again.

Now that I do have a better understanding in what a SO goes through, I may be able to help her with this problem, that did arise this morning

But need to be honest here, I almost threw that word out the window this morning, after what happened. I was about to throw away, all I had worked so hard for, to stay clean from this addiction.

Seeing here in this pain once again, I knew that would be the worst thing anyone can do

[Disillusioned]

Hi Beth Ann,
You touched something that I have been thinking about all day. I have stated repeatedly that the adult entertainment venues my H engaged in, including P, were a terrible and complete shock to me. I never suspected him capable of participating in any of the things he did. For the first time, today, as he was leaving for another trip, he told me that I have been a good wife. I know I have, but I never thought he realized it, as I have gotten very little except criticism from him. He has been more kind, thoughtful and attentive the last 3 years. D-day was 4 years ago in May, but for the most part, he has described that he felt like these activities were a guilty, little pleasure, and had nothing to do with me. He is so good, decent and honest with others. I only know of him lying to me and to a girlfriend he was seeing in college while he was away from me. He looked at the people performing in adult entertainment venues, as entertainers and himself as a paying audience member...all completely legit, just hidden because he knew it would hurt me and many others wouldn't approve.. He didn't see anything wrong, he says, with what he was doing or what the entertainers were doing. He did say that he probably shouldn't have been doing it, if it was something he didn't want people to know about.

I was thinking about empathy...and him. I don't think he felt much for me prior to the last 3 years, but I have seen him be so incredibly kind to others that are having a tough time.

I suspect the difference is his own vulnerability. I think he came from a toxic family background where 3 out of the 5 members of the family hurt him, and he began to retreat into a fantasy world by reading. Neighbors thought the family had two children, his younger siblings, since he didn't go out much. I have begun to suspect that his continual refusals to talk to me early in our marriage, to share experiences then and later with our kids,and to be spiritually close to me were more about his need to keep his wall up to someone who had the advantage of being in the same house, called wife which gave me certain entitlements, and who might hurt him if allowed close, the same way his family members did. He just couldn't let himself be vulnerable again. It is also probably why he criticized so many things I did, too. I am sure the things I did were not exactly as he liked, although I did try to alter most of them, but I think the real reason may have been to create distance between us, again not trusting that I wouldn't hurt him. To this day, I have been concerned for my own heart break, but I also want this out of his life, so he can be the person I believe God intended him to be, and who I have seen for short visits throughout our marriage. NO, I don't want hurt anymore, but I also want him to be able to have real friendships and relationships with others. He is such a good man. I wish he could see himself as I see him. I can see all the good, even after the years of distance, criticism, and this p stuff. I am telling you is a good man, because he is. He just can't trust others, and now with this p thing, I believe he will have trouble trusting himself. He has always believed he is so controlled he can handle this cold turkey, by white knuckling. A strong family characteristic is not to look at or talk about problems.
Some members are dead and buried with no resolution to relationship and other problems. I know he is worth the effort, if he just truly looks at himself. He is so intelligent, gifted, kind, and honest with others...other than romantic interests and women he has objectified.
So, in answer to your question about empathy, I can only guess, but I don't think he has had it for his wife, for the performers in the adult entertainment field, for a past girlfriend or so, and mostly for himself. He just believes he can be strong, without saying, look, it's been hard, and I've done this, and now I see it, and I will get help. I will get better. I think he does have empathy for other people though.
I do recognize the denial mechanisms he has used to justify his use of the adult entertainment venue, and I showed him the list. He recognized one. I then gave him examples of 12 others. (There were 14 listed).
My mom used to describe some men as 'little boys grown tall.' There is a lot of wisdom in that description. In high school, he always seemed so much more mature than our peers. There are some things that still need to mature, I believe.
disillusioned