The WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth

[stillandagain]

Is it too much to ask for the WHOLE story?

If a PA doesn't TELL the whole story, is it lying by omission, especially if the truth is later discovered?

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

Yes. Lying by omission is a lie. If you need to be an offical CIA interogator to get a straight answer, there's a problem.

I hope things get better for you.

[Crisodian]

s&a,
Having followed along in your journal, I just wanted to share that this is not all that uncommon. We, as SOs, seem to get the whole story in a trickle instead of a deluge. I went through the same thing with AG. There wasn't anything more "after" d-day, but I continued to learn more and more about what went on previous to d-day.

It sucks.

But to respond to the base of your question is an omission still a lie, I really think that depends on the situation. Just my experience, but from what I went through with AG, I was of the mind-set that omissions were still lies. No ands, ifs or buts. However, I learned from this journey and from AG's therapist, that because PAs tend to get so engrossed in their fantasy world, they actually can "forget" some of what they had done. (Yeah, when I first learned about it, my BS meter went off the charts...) But, as the whole picture became clear, I was stunned. And then there was more. And more. And more. And more...that came out over time. And some of it happened when AG was so engrossed in his fantasy, that the reality was he wasn't thinking. He was just "doing".

So, in my specific case with AG, he really couldn't recall "all" he had done when I asked for complete disclosure. He wasn't lying by omission because he really couldn't recall.

BUT, that being said, and that's a big BUT here, if someone were to intentionally not share something they had done while during the active portion of their addiction, then yes, that would still be a lie. They knew and didn't tell.

Find peace,
~C~

[rosie]

To be honest, S&A, I don't think it matters if it is technically a lie or not (which, in my opinion, omission is technically lying).

The thing is, that your marriage is your business. If your partner is doing something with YOUR marriage, and YOUR life, you have a right to know all of the details of that so you can make an informed decision in my opinion.

The lack of respect and the lack of choice is what I have a problem with, not the technicalities and semantics.

As to why you don't get the full truth? I thinks it is two-fold. One, I think that they compartmentalize - I know with my husband he kept "that side of himself" completely secret from anyone, so burying truth and details came with the territory. Also, he claims to have felt great shame by these things so he even had to lie to himself about what sort of person he was being. I think denial is a huge part of addiction, and I think part of lack of recollection is part denial.

I also think that the full truth is hidden in some regards in order for self-preservation, or to "save their ass" from the hurt and consequences they know will come if they are to fully disclose.

[Steelerfan27]

I agree that purposefully omitting portions of you P addiction clearly represents lying. However, there are circumstances where the omission of certain details is warranted or requested by your SO. Disclosure is immensely painful for both parties, but clearly more painful and hurtful for the SO. I know that from my experience with my wife and from reading the many experiences of SO's.

My SO and I have been together for along time and she's been well aware that I struggled with P. When we were dating, there was a period where I used her as an accountability partner. It wrecked her to hear when I fell. We also had some stuff in out relationship where we crossed lines and felt bad about it (being Christians holding to the abstinence line). A whole lot of feeling bad. Every time we crossed our line, we would spend the rest of our night feeling bad, planning how to avoid crossing the line again and so on. As a married couple years later, we discussed that in retrospect we wished we didn't spend so much time feeling guilty about it. Not to say we were sinless, but we were able to mostly keep our clothes on.

My regular P disclosure to her was the same way. It was miserable for both of us and we hated it. Eventually she couldn't take it and wanted me to go to another accountability partner and tell them instead of her. That's what I would call acceptable omission. My gf at the time (now my wife) didn't want to be the accountability partner. She didn't want to hear it all the time. We decided that as long I was actively in an accountability group, that she didn't want to hear about everything. I don't know if that was the best approach or not, but I wouldn't think I did anything wrong by not telling her after that. Eventually I left the group (graduated college and we got married). Now I looked at P with no accountability and lied about it to her. Not OK. Fast forward a few year and she caught me. I disclosed my problem over a few days time and had some really rocky times. From time to time she expresses that she wants to know what I saw. I maintain that it's not a good idea for her to know and certainly isn't a good idea for her to look. (Plus no woman really understands that a PA will look at hundreds of women in one sitting). A lot of women think their husband looks at one woman for a while on P and MB's. Maybe true for some few men, but not for me (or most I would suspect). The point is there is NO good thing that comes from her knowing exactly what I've seen. It is enough for me to admit that I looked at bad things, that I'm sorry and all the rest.

Does this line of reasoning make sense? Me and my wife have talked about this and we are comfortable with this. We understand that details for the sake of details aren't fruitful and may just cause tougher hurdles for healing. I would suggest this to other couples struggling with problems. Protect yourself, don't be naive, don't get left in the dark about the extent of the problem, but it may allow better healing if one doesn't have to think about all the images.

All this being said, each couple should find that line for themselves and decide what needs to be shared. The SO should be ok with the level of omission and should be consulted on it. The PA shouldn't decide the level of omission themselves. And no hidden bombshells.

[Hibiscus]

I think it makes a lot of sense, Steelerfan. Jenn has also written many times about being advised early on, to get the information she needed to move forward, but not necessarily the nitty, gritty details. I on the other hand, have gone through several d-days long before I ever found TTF and that wise advice. I tortured myself by checking out exactly what my husband was looking at...the sites, the images, dates, times, etc. I even saved that garbage for years at a time. It's like I felt I needed it as tangible proof, since I had been lied to so many times and made to feel like I was crazy. I now desperately wish I did not have those images permanently super glued into my brain. I crave a selective lobotomy! It makes it very difficult to move past the hurt and makes every where we go feel like one giant triggering experience for me. I think SOs should take some time and really think through exactly what level of detail they need in disclosure to move forward. Unfortunately, for so many of us, disclosure wasn't voluntary - we had to go looking for it. When the burden of finding the information is left to us, it's almost impossible to control what we will be subjected to when we find it. For those PAs with SOs who know they have a PA problem, but have not seen the material, you have a wonderful opportunity to show them compassion and protect them from additional pain. Disclose what they express they need to know, willingly and with 100% honesty, before they find the details themselves. It has the potential to make the recovery process a little easier for them and will be appreciated down the road.