Room for Mistakes?

[Charly22]

To any and all PA's -

Do you feel it is important to know you have room to make a mistake?

Do you honestly believe if you knew your SO was allowing you that room to make a mistake...do you believe it would make it easier for you to relapse?

Or am I totally missing the point here?

I think on one hand, it would be helpful for the RELATIONSHIP to know that one would be there for them, no matter what.

But on the OTHER hand, it would not be helpful to RECOVERY to say "if you relapse, I will understand"....

Another conumdrum....that is my current stumbling block...

[TrueBlue]

I'm not a PA as you probably know, but I am in a marriage with one.

My husband has room for lots of mistakes...he knows that we will work through:

a bad attitude, especially if we can discuss it

insensitive comments, especially if he apologizes or at least acknowledges the issue

spending too much selfish time (like with computer games, reading, or unneccesary naps)

hyper-defensiveness, if he is willing to acknowledge it and consider other perspectives

But in our marriage, at least in the last three months, he knows that relapse is not an option. If it did occur, we might be able to work through it, but the odds are so poor that our marriage could survive, that he says it's not even on the table.

I TRY to be understanding of any undesirable actions on his part, especially if they are an ugly result of him not doing something worse, but we still talk about a lot of things, and trudge through that unpleasantness much more civally than if he were looking at porn again.

Every relationship is different, and I know what works for us (which isn't even always consistent) wont necessarily work for others, but for us I think it has made recovery for him more attainable to know that I don't expect perfection in attitude, affection, communication, etc 100% of the time, but that I do as far as abstaining from porn.

It's a tough conundrum to face :( and my thoughts are with you as you work things out.

All the best,
TrueBlue

[Crisodian]

Charly,
My 2 cents, for what they are worth, is that giving them an "out" gives them room to justify making a bad choice.

And then it could potentially bring on the "well, you said it was OK if I made a mistake!" argument.

This isn't like a typo, or dialing a wrong number. The mistake is one that impacts us as well.

While helpful in a relationship to say "I understand and will support you", for me, giving AG permission to relapse was never an option. Our marriage would not have gone through another hit. (Very much like TB described). And while I told AG I would fight along side him and for him and with him, while he tackled his PA, I also gave him the conditions for me to do so. My expectations. My limits. What I would and would not accept.

Peace,
~C~

[JenMac]

I know you are wanting to hear from PAs Charly and I am sure some will answer too, but I have to say that I agree with the others. In fact Mac has told me that the fact that I was so clear to him about what I would and would not expect was one of the things that assisted him the most early in his recovery.
I agree with you that it seems like giving permission if we are accepting of relapse.
Be kind and gentle with yourself Charly! You are working hard and are in a difficult place. Remember to look out for you!
All the best!
Jenn

[vintageturtle]

I already posted a bit about this in your journal, but I remembered something that I read on this topic after reading this thread, so I thought I would add it.

I read an analogy about lapses that compared preparing for a lapse to preparing for a fire. You have fire drills and an exit plan in place in case of fire, but that doesn't mean that you aren't careful about preventing a fire, or that it's OK for someone to commit arson just because you have a safety plan in place. And just because it's wrong for someone to be careless with fire doesn't mean you shouldn't go to the trouble of preparing for that emergency.

I think there is a balance, a point where you can have a plan in place for triggers and skating and even lapses, without it condoning a lapse. I think it's up to the PA to make sure that they make this distinction in their mind. But I don't think that deciding that a lapse is the end of the world or of his progress is any more helpful than deciding that a fire would be so devastating and dangerous that there is no point in even trying to have a safety plan in place. I also think that someone who is purposefully setting fires and rationalizing it because there is a fire station down the street and an exit plan in place and fire alarms is hugely different from someone who lights candles and then falls asleep, or whatever. That's still careless, but it's not malicious.

[mell]

I'm not a PA as you probably know, but I am in a marriage with one.

My husband has room for lots of mistakes...he knows that we will work through:

a bad attitude, especially if we can discuss it

insensitive comments, especially if he apologizes or at least acknowledges the issue

spending too much selfish time (like with computer games, reading, or unneccesary naps)

hyper-defensiveness, if he is willing to acknowledge it and consider other perspectives

But in our marriage, at least in the last three months, he knows that relapse is not an option. If it did occur, we might be able to work through it, but the odds are so poor that our marriage could survive, that he says it's not even on the table.

Excellent response True Blue!

In my case, there are actions and attitudes that lead to my acting out. I shut down emotionally, stop talking and become distant. From this I develop (nurture) a sense of self loathing and play the role of the victim ("It's too hard, I'm too stressed", etc).

I think there should be an allowance for struggling - and an SO should encourage their PA to let them know that they are having a hard time. It may not ever be a pretty conversation, but we all have to understand that this is an addiction and there is no 'on or off' switch. Recovery only comes as the result of hard work and a change in lifestyle. There will be struggles.

As far as acting out goes, I don't believe it should be allowed. This could encourage the PA to 'slip' here or there and even be proud that they 'only messed up once this week.....'.

I guess it all depends on the actions following a relapse. The PA should come clean, admit it, learn from it, and move on. Whether it is accepted by the SO is entirely up to the two people involved.

As an addict who has relapsed many times, I tend to sympathize with relapse to a certain point.

Just my thoughts.

[BlueHubby]

Though I might seem alittle extreme as I respond to this I will try and explain my reasoning, especially because I am a recovering PA.
Do you feel it is important to know you have room to make a mistake?
Yes it is important that I have room as a PA to make mistakes...TO A POINT. As far as looking at P again and calling it a mistake, I do not agree with having "room to make mistakes" in that area. A PA has committed his/her life to thier SO/ themselves that they will not look at P again. In looking at P because they had a "relapse" is simply an excuse to say that I am not committed enough. As a PA I cannot blame anything or anyone for my actions, they were my choices and I have to live with them. If I looked at P again because my wife told me she would love me even if I had a "relapse" it would simply be another way I could have justified my actions. I put quotations around the word relapse because I believe that it signifies a lack of conviction, a lack of self control that the PA must have if they are being truthful.
Do you honestly believe if you knew your SO was allowing you that room to make a mistake...do you believe it would make it easier for you to relapse?
Yes it would for someone that did not have a "will not fail" attitude. Knowing that the SO would still be with them/love them after making a mistake simply allows them to decide when and how to make a relapse happen. There are things that I believe a PA should have some room on, as long as those things are not directly linked to thier addiction.
Ok, I'll try to summarize all my rambling. A PA should not be allowed an inch of room to make a mistake and "relapse" if they have truly made a committment to be P free. This is just my opinion and what makes sense and works for me#:-s