What makes you think it is not cheating?

[SimplyMe]

As an SO I have to say I think P=physical affair. I have experienced both, p, physical affairs, and virtual affairs. To me, at least when I break them down to their components, they all have the same effect. Except of course with the physical affairs exposing us to STD's. So I guess that aspect makes the physical slightly worse.

[/QUOTE]

Well said Missingus! This has been my experience also.

[Deelmo]

To me as an SO, porn is worse than having an affair with an actual person. A person has faults, flaws, and qurkes. I can compete with a person if I chose to. I cannot compete with porn. Porn is 24/7 selfishness. It is adultury of the heart, mind, and body. The heart because you PA did not even CARE what it would do to your spouse. Mind - because it you PA made an intentional choice to go and watch it. The body - well if you PA can't figure this one out, then you're the one who thinks it's not cheating.

[Greeneyed Girl]

If you can't do it or say it in front of your partner without causing them so much pain that they would leave you if you did...then you shouldn't being doing it at all...I classify that as cheating.

[elle kay]

To me as an SO, porn is worse than having an affair with an actual person. A person has faults, flaws, and qurkes. I can compete with a person if I chose to. I cannot compete with porn. Porn is 24/7 selfishness. It is adultury of the heart, mind, and body. The heart because you PA did not even CARE what it would do to your spouse. Mind - because it you PA made an intentional choice to go and watch it. The body - well if you PA can't figure this one out, then you're the one who thinks it's not cheating.

i agree. i just wrote this in my journal. an affair is human, it has emotion and passion and interaction.

P is all of adultery but replacing human emotion with selfish enjoyment of sexual exploitation/ degradation of women. And if YOu are a woman, its far darker and more disturbing to know THAT is what your H is turned on by

[elle kay]

If you can't do it or say it in front of your partner without causing them so much pain that they would leave you if you did...then you shouldn't being doing it at all...I classify that as cheating.

hear hear. exactly

[hopefulwife]

My feeling may not be popular on this subject. So if I affend Im sorry.

Im a SO. I have been put through the ringer with this and we are still deep down the rabit hole. That being said my feeling and thoughts have changed over the years.

I personaly dont see it as cheating but due to this addictions s-x-al nature it can wound and have the same emotional responce. His P viewing has nothing to do with me. It has not been caused by us or where we are in our relationship. I cant compete with this because its not even in my relm. We didnt neglect any aspect of our relationship and he is satisfied in our relationship. It is formost an addiction in my mind. P is accepted in sociaty and it is almost expected the men look. (unfortunate but true) Its like alcohol. Some people cant let it go. My husband cant let it go and it gets to such a point that it harms other areas of his life.

PA is something he is. A cheating is something you chose.

If it is astablished that its a problem for you and your relationship then using P is unacceptable. I would never say something is fine in a reationship where it hurts someone.

[maggie]

I agree DM...

To me as an SO, porn is worse than having an affair with an actual person. A person has faults, flaws, and qurkes. I can compete with a person if I chose to. I cannot compete with porn. Porn is 24/7 selfishness. It is adultury of the heart, mind, and body. The heart because you PA did not even CARE what it would do to your spouse...

I would be heartbroken if he had an affair with another woman. I'd be angry, hurt etc.

But... I've always believed that there would be some reasonable human drive behind his seeking love and comfort from another. I know I had a strong need to be comforted after he hurt me so bad. I wanted to run to someone I could trust for comfort and shelter. These are normal human needs. We seek out someone to understand us, comfort us and make us feel safe and loved. If a lonely rejected partner is seeking out these normal human needs outside of their relationship, as traumatic as that is... it is natural and to some degree understandable.

Pornography seeking and using is not natural. There is a thrill and a definite physical rush of chemicals & hormones from pornographic material, but no one is giving or receiving support, love or anything of value to the user. It's all a superficial and selfish..physical thrill. That's it. There's no redeeming value from pornographic material and images.

Ex. Your partner is working hard and over-stressed in his job and without notice he is wrongfully terminated by a greedy manager. A supportive co-worker reaches out to him in his wave of depression....offering support and kindness to him as he vents his frustration.
Under these circumstances..it is likely that an emotional bond may be formed and an affair may occur...or even just thoughts of having an affair may occur. Wrong. Yes. But humanly understandable. But to seek out pornographic images of women performing unusual sex acts and arousing oneself to those images is not understandable.

The twisted, degrading, inhumane aspects of pornographic images adds a very dark layer to the usual act of infidelity.

[HopefulsRock]

Well said Maggie, Deelmo, Greeneyed girl, Elle Kay and I couldn't possibly add any more to what your heartfelt words and I just wanted to pipe in to thank you for your input as it helps strengthen my resolve to stay clean from it all.

I'm so sorry to have ever partaken in such a degrading and vial industry and especially sorry to have cheated my wife out of the love and affection that I squandered away selfishly... apologies to all.

[maggie]

Hey Rock..

Your reply says it all.

I couldn't possibly add any more to what your heartfelt words and I just wanted to pipe in to thank you...

I'm so sorry to have ever partaken in such a degrading and vial industry and especially sorry to have cheated my wife out of the love and affection that I squandered away selfishly... apologies to all.

You get it. Thank you for giving us hope. You really do understand. Thanks to Hopeful too...as she played an important/critical role in all of this by supporting you through your recovery. Please continue to help us out of this pit by posting...songs & lyrics are good too!

[Sea_of_fog]

I feel a lot of anger here. Anger is hard to face. I 'd guess that's why more addicts don't respond here. Personally I'd characterize my addiction as a means of avoiding and processing difficult emotions. Hurting others and experiencing their anger is one of the things I fear most in the world. It's a major reason why I turn to explicit materials, to numb myself from difficult emotions. So if other addicts are anything like me, this is the last place they want to be.

Two things that I would add to the conversation, speaking as an addict:

1. Engaging in this behavior is selfish, but not in the superficial "I just want to feel good" way that it may appear to many SO's. It isn't selfish self-love. It is selfish self hate. I was abusing myself in a cycle of self-loathing and shame. It isn't you or your relationship to the addict at the heart of this behavior. He would be an addict with or without you. The fact that he is harming you is undoubtedly adding to his shame and self-hate.

2. To answer the OP- your question stirs up a lot of feelings. If I'm going to be honest with myself, it is a form of cheating. So short answer: yes cheating. However you ask why an addict doesn't think so and maybe I can give you some insight. I don't think I would have said it was cheating if asked in the midst of my addiction. As pointed out by others, it is different than a perhaps more traditional view of an affair or fling and though the damage it does is similar because of the nature of infidelity, it really needs to be understood differently.

My relationship to the material I viewed was very much like the relationship between an addict and a drug. It was a means to an end. It was a negative coping mechanism. I may very well have become addicted to alcohol under different circumstances. If I was and I hid it from my loved one, would that be cheating? I actually think so, in the sense that we've agreed to bind our lives together and my hiding a significant problem is going to hurt her. Doubly so when it involves breaking her trust in the area of sexual intimacy. It's our life and so she needs to be appraised of my significant problems because they affect our life. The pitfall with this addiction is that the SO of an alcoholic can throw out the alcohol in the house. You can't throw out the sex. It's an integral part of the relationship.

This is a round-about way of saying that to the addict who is probably avoiding ugly feelings through addiction, the addiction is a monster in the closet that he feeds in exchange for not having to look in the closet. He probably loves you and his life with you and so he keeps the monster nicely tucked away where he hopes you and no one else will ever see it. It isn't a relationship that he wants to have any bearing on his relationship with you and as such it isn't about love, or feeling good, or connections with anyone else.

Of course it will hurt you just as it has been hurting him his entire life. But to say that his behavior is cheating would be to acknowledge that his behavior is hurting you, and to do so would require an admission that most addicts aren't willing to make.