Question to PA' in SAA (or the like) - feedback from SO's are also welcome...

[NewHope10]

As some of you may know, my H (a PA) is in SAA. He attends meetings by telephone daily and attends a group once a week.

Yes...I am pleased he is doing this - and I'm very proud of him! He is doing more than he's ever done before!

I've been noticing that while he is on the teleconference calls he has been playing on the computer (games, checking email and what have you).

This morning when we talked he was telling me about something he was doing (non-P related) on the computer while he was on his SAA call.

I asked him if he should be doing that - and I told him that I cannot see how he can concentrate on the meetings while at the sme time playing and surfing the internet.

He told me that he listens to most of it - but doesn't listen to the repetitive stuff (for example, when they read the Traditions, etc.). I told him that this information bothers me - and there is likely a very good eason for the repetitiveness of certain things in these meetings. He seemed to shrug this off.

He says that he listens to the sharing portion of the calls - and I think he shares sometimes too. Should I just be happy about this and let the other (not paying attention) go?

Honestly - IMHO I think one is either "all in" or "all out"....because I know where "being in the middle" can lead (and its not a good place).

Now...I don't want to be too hard on him - especially if I'm wrong. But - I sure don't want to be too soft either (been there...done that...doesn't work).

I'd be most grateful to hear the honest opinions of PA's and other SO's.

Please share your thoughts on this. Also - if you are of the opinion that I should just let it go, please say so. I can take it (insert smile here. Hahaha! I'm on my BB so I cannot post the smilies).

[JenMac]

HI NH!
I have not got any experience with SAA groups but I do attend Alanon and I would say that the steps and traditions are quite repetitive. Perhaps they are meant to be for very good reason but when you are new in the program they often don't mean much to you. It is the sharings, the readings and the slogans that you can grasp onto and get good connection and understanding from. The steps to me, are something that I need to work on on my own as I feel more able. The traditions are even more difficult. I always feel sorry when we have newcomers and it is a tradition night as I feel it is often a bit dry and you don't always get the good discussion you do on other nights.
Having said that, I attend the meetings so while I may not be fully attentive to the reading of the steps and traditions, I am present in the room. I wonder about doing something like playing on the computer. Perhaps with paper and pen, he could be thinking, pondering about things that show he is present and engaged in his recovery.
I know for myself, if I am on the computer (usually TTF) when I am trying to have conversation on the phone, I am not really paying close attention to the conversation. I have divided my attention between 2 things so that neither is really getting it fully.
Hope others with SAA experience specifically answer!
Have a great day!
Jenn

[mell]

NH,

I too sometimes zone out during the reading of the traditions, steps, and purpose. I get why it is read at every meeting, but I want to get to the meat of the meeting.

I guess it depends on the amount of idling that is taking place. A bigger concern may be the amount he is sharing. I go to one or two meetings a week and I make sure I share at every meeting. The group I am in reads a daily passage. They are inspirational and somewhat vague, so I can share what is on my mind within the context of the reading.

I don't think I could do a meeting every day. I would rather go to my 1 - 2 a week and then call my sponsor daily.

The key thing here is that he is doing this every day. That is commendable. You only get out what you put in, so that is up to him.

It sounds like the two of you are communicating well, If I were you I would ask him what he got out of the meeting a couple times a week. Hold him accountable, let him know you are tracking his progress. Encourage him when he's done well (we need that!) and make him toe the line when he hasn't.

A question - Do you attend anon meetings? You might want to consider if you're not. It may provide some good insight on how others hold their PAs accountable.

Good question. I'm interested in the replies that come out.

-Mell

[Charly22]

From my lil corner of the world, I think you are lucky that he is taking the steps to call in, and be part of ANY meeting.......

[debv]

I'm looking at it from a Christian perspective, since that's my background. Some people go to churches where there is a very formal liturgy, and the same or very similar words are spoken every week, particularly as part of the communion mass (think Catholics, Lutherans, and Episcopalians here, but there are probably others.) Some church services, on the other hand, are very free-flowing and do not use the same language every week. There are some people who find comfort in the repetitiveness of the liturgy and the fact that Christians around the world are sharing the same words. There are some who are bored to tears. To me the reading of the traditions and steps sounds very liturgical, and I am guessing it's just like church - some people find it helpful and comforting, and others just find it boring. It seems natural to me.

[NewHope10]

Having said that, I attend the meetings so while I may not be fully attentive to the reading of the steps and traditions, I am present in the room. I wonder about doing something like playing on the computer. Perhaps with paper and pen, he could be thinking, pondering about things that show he is present and engaged in his recovery.
I know for myself, if I am on the computer (usually TTF) when I am trying to have conversation on the phone, I am not really paying close attention to the conversation. I have divided my attention between 2 things so that neither is really getting it fully.

Hey Jenn...thank you! Yes - I too have tried doing something on the computer while talking to someone on the phone - and it doesn't work. I am not able to hear anything the person says that is on the phone. Absolutely nothing sinks in.

I like your idea about maybe doing something like writing during the reading of the steps and traditions.

I guess it depends on the amount of idling that is taking place. A bigger concern may be the amount he is sharing. I go to one or two meetings a week and I make sure I share at every meeting. The group I am in reads a daily passage. They are inspirational and somewhat vague, so I can share what is on my mind within the context of the reading.

I don't think I could do a meeting every day. I would rather go to my 1 - 2 a week and then call my sponsor daily.

The key thing here is that he is doing this every day. That is commendable. You only get out what you put in, so that is up to him.

It sounds like the two of you are communicating well, If I were you I would ask him what he got out of the meeting a couple times a week. Hold him accountable, let him know you are tracking his progress. Encourage him when he's done well (we need that!) and make him toe the line when he hasn't.

A question - Do you attend anon meetings? You might want to consider if you're not. It may provide some good insight on how others hold their PAs accountable.

Hi there Mell and thank you for your response!

I don't know about how much sharing he does while on these calls. I know that I don't hear him say much of anything when on these calls (when I'm home). He doesn't have a sponsor yet either. So he is not sharing that way. The only sharing he does (aside from any type of sharing during meetings) is with me, and while I am truly (and utterly) thankful for that...I'm not a PA.

Yes - I am TOTALLY proud of him and the steps he is taking, but my questions is what's the point of calling into these meetings if one is not really going to listen?

Maybe there are moments during the call that he is paying attention - and only he knows that. I can only say what I have observed. And, perhaps - I just might be wrong (yes...oh my...that may actually be possible :D). That being said...he has to SHOW me that he is serious about these meetings and his recovery. By splitting time between the computer and the telephone meetings (at the same time)...that's not showing me dedication to the program or recovery. I've been witness to too many things that were only "half done".

I do check in with him after some of the meetings and ask if he got anything out of them. He will open up and share with me. Sometimes he will offer this without even asking. Don't get me wrong - we have taken leaps and bounds with communicating with one another...which is so much more than has happened in the past.

No - I don't go to any anon meetings, but I'm thinking that maybe I should.

From my lil corner of the world, I think you are lucky that he is taking the steps to call in, and be part of ANY meeting.......

Cheers Charly! Yes - I am very lucky that he is taking these steps. You are absolutely right! He hasn't dont this in the past - and I am thankful that he's trying to do things differently this time around.

I'm looking at it from a Christian perspective, since that's my background. Some people go to churches where there is a very formal liturgy, and the same or very similar words are spoken every week, particularly as part of the communion mass (think Catholics, Lutherans, and Episcopalians here, but there are probably others.) Some church services, on the other hand, are very free-flowing and do not use the same language every week. There are some people who find comfort in the repetitiveness of the liturgy and the fact that Christians around the world are sharing the same words. There are some who are bored to tears. To me the reading of the traditions and steps sounds very liturgical, and I am guessing it's just like church - some people find it helpful and comforting, and others just find it boring. It seems natural to me.

Ah...good insight, Deb! My H is Catholic. Its been a long time since we've been to church due to work schedules. I know the repetitivenss during the Catholic Mass. I don't know if he found it boring. I've never asked him. Perhaps I should!

I have to admit that I prefer the "free-flowing" churches. But - when we used to attend the Catholic services together, although it was repetitive - I made myself pay attention and listen and concentrate on the words because I felt that this was an important part of the service as well. Otherwise...why do it?


I have to say that I truly appreciate all your thoughts!

I guess the reason I originally posted this question is because I was uneasy about him splitting the time between computer and telephone meetings.

I've seen my H go all out at the beginng with something (a job - a task - a project - his faith, etc.), then after a while...he would start to lose interest until whatever he originally started out doing - stopped completely. I haven't seen "follow through" with a few things.

In past "discoveries" (oh..and there have been a few) - I saw him starting out on the right path...doing some things differently - then loing momentum - then it all coming to a halt. Hence...where we are right now.

After this last discovery and he said he would get help - he started calling into these meetings. He would take the phone in the bedroom (where there is no computer). It appeared that he was going "all out" with this (the program and his recovery). Now the phone comes into the computer room - where he splits his time between the computer and the telephone meetings. With this happening...it appears to me that he is starting to lose ambition. So naturally - I start fearing that at some point it will stop altogether. Its what has happenend in the past...starting off strong - then losing momentum. Naturally...I fear it stopping altogether.

Today was a prime example. He wanted to do something on the computer and chose to do it while on a telephone meeting. I was in the room for some of the time and could clearly see what was going on. I just don't see the point in calling into these meetings for "appearances only". It did not show me dediction and commitment to the program or his recovery today.

H and I had a long, deep and heart-felt chat last night (it was a very good talk). A lot of the things he said last night are the very same things he said about 3 ears ago after that "discovery". I told him as much - and said that these are the things he has said before...but look at what has happened since then and look at where we are now. No further ahead - and actually 1,000 steps behind! I told him what my fears are. He said they are his fears too. I told him that I don't want to keep having this same conversation in the future. He agreed.

He explained that he is doing things differently this time around - and I can totally see it with him opening up to me and being honest on things that are not very nice. This is TOTALLY AMAZING! But...when I see him losing momentum (in this case...seeing the action of not really getting into the telephone meetings) - then I become fearful.

Please don't get me wrong...I am thankful about what he's doing - its just that when I see the pattern starting...I know where it leads.

Sorry this is so long (I should learn the prace of being concise :D)...but because I have gathered my thoughts here - I know how to express it to him now.

You are all the best! Thank you for helping me with this!

[artist]

Hi NeedHope,
I am very often in your situation. My PA goes to meetings once a week. There are times he comes home and doesn't seem to be quite "dialed into the meeting. I don't ask him about what he does but I have asked him does he think the program is working for him, and if I receive a yes, I go with it. He has reported being pornfree for 6 weeks and I tend to believe him based on his behavior towards me.

I have spent many meetings online and I've multi-tasked because either it takes too long for folks to get their feelings out and is quite frustrationg, or you simply don't identify to anothers experience. Listening to others speak is somehow comforting even if you don't relate to it.

Your H might glean something that he identifies with at a certain meeting and some things he doesn't. As you know from al-anon "take what you like and leave the rest". I don't know about you, but it took me years to "get" the steps in Cosa and Al-anon, but they finally sunk in.

I think it is a very good sign that your H attends everyday no matter what form. Unfortunately we can't control the rate of their recovery!

[mell]

NH,

We get paid by the word here, so go on as long as you want!

I have been to some meetings where the focus of the entire group seemed to wane in and out. Last night, there were a couple jokers who wanted to keep the meeting light hearted. Once a couple people shared, it got a little more serious, where I thought it should be.

Some meetings are better than others. I have always gotten something out of every meeting I've been to, even if it was on the light side.

-Mell

[JenMac]

Hey NH!
This has probably already been asked but would he consider joining here? How would he, and more importantly you, feel about that? By having Mac here, it has helped me see his committment to his recovery. It has also given us something we can share together and a starting point to many great conversations.
Just a thought...
Jenn

[NewHope10]

Thank you again for your comments!

In answer to your question Jenn...I would feel comfortable with my H joining TTF when...and ONLY when he is able to be honest with himself and with me. I don't see that happening any time too soon. When he is able to be "real" and not just make it look like he's doing something good for "appearances" only.

My H told me this morning that he called into a meeting last night. He also told me that he did not go on the computer while on the call. That was a bold-faced lie...right to my face.

I called him on it. I told him that it looked like he was on the computer during the call. Then he said 'oh...maybe I played a game for a couple of minutes". That was another lie.

I then confronted him and said it looked like he was on the computer for a lot longer than "a couple of minutes". I told him that it was 25 to 30 minutes - which would have put him right in the "meat" of the call.

Lies. Little or big - they are lies. I told him that I needed his honesty with everything (I sound like a freakin' broken record!). Because if he will lie about the small things - then he will really lie about the big things. I told him that I wasn't going to make a federal issue out of it then...but honestly - I stewed about it all day long.

Why?...why did I stew all day? HE HAS LIED TO SO OFTEN AND SO MANY TIMES that I am at the end of my rope! It feels like all he has done is feed me lies since I've known him.

And one wonders why I DON'T trust him! ~X(

Even with a lie...big or small...I feel he is being disloyal to me.

I'm happy for other couples here on TTF. It looks like its working for a lot of you. But I think it takes commitment...honesty...and respect from both parties in order to make it work.

I believe that if a PA really WANTS to recover...DESIRES to recover and live a healthy life...is DEDICATED to it - they won't cut corners. They can't.

Sorry...a little anger seeped out my post.