How do you make it up to your SO?

[debv]

This question is really aimed at PAs and SOs both. My husband has reached, and I think completed, Step 9 in his 12-step program re making amends for what he's done to hurt people. I don't feel satisfied with the apology he's given me - it was a very heartfelt apology, but it was just one, and not enough. He also gave me a nice mother's day gift but that was a mother's day gift. I don't want to feel like I can be bought like Kobe Bryant's wife with her big diamond ring after his sx scandal, on the other hand something tangible and for no reason other than an apology to me would be nice.

DW said he's making amends to me by living a different lifestyle, and that's all he can do. I believe he's quit P, but he's no more open with me than he ever was. He doesn't want me talking to him about his step program. His sponsor says it's counterproductive to his recovery. I don't know what other people have done to make amends. DW says they don't talk about that kind of thing at meetings, that the step program is personal. But to me what I'm hearing is he quit, that should be enough, and he's not going to try to do anything else. And that hurts.

I don't know what would be enough for me. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I should expect. I don't know what other PAs have done to make up for the hurt they've caused, or what other SOs have found is enough. Maybe I want to see more remorse; I've told him I want him to apologize repeatedly and act like he's grateful I haven't left, and basically that he should be down on bended knee thanking me for staying after what he's put me through. DW doesn't want to grovel or beg. I don't know what's reasonable to expect or to want, or what if anything might help.

[Crisodian]

deb,
Sadly, there is no simple answer.

IMO, the reality of the situation is they can't make it up to us directly. They can't make it up by apologizing or by groveling or begging forgiveness, because even if they did, how much do empty words mean if we can't believe the sentiment behind them? Nice words to hear, and it should be said out loud, but are they real? How do we know?

There is nothing they can buy.

How do you put a price on the love and trust we lost when they tossed it for P?

There is nothing they can do that really makes up for the years of hurt, anger, infidelity, and the destruction of the foundation of our lives except for time and transparency and open, honest communication with us. They have to show instead of tell. And unless they are willing to be transparent and really show us they are making honest life changes, we (as SOs) wont be satisfied they have made it up to us. How can we? We can't trust anything we can't "see". They lost that priviledge when they lied and hid their addiction.

And on the other side, we as SOs have to learn to let go, to start to forgive, once we begin to see life changes in our PAs. Time. And transparency.

If we can't forgive, then we can't heal.

Forget? Absolutely not. But we can't change the past and neither can our PAs. The only thing we can do is go forward and move on. Together or apart is the decision of the couple.

From what you are sharing, IMO, it sounds like you need DW to include you in healing. He needs to help you heal now by being open and transparent with you. Apologies are nice to hear, yes. But it sounds like you need more from him. I don't think you are asking him to beg or grovel, but if you need him to show appreciation for you staying with him through this, then maybe you should be clear what you need from him? Write him a letter telling you what you think you need from him to help YOU. It's great that he is progressing in recovery. But all you see is what he lets you see. How can that help either of you?

It sounds like you need to lay out the expectations you need from DW. I did that with AG. I wrote him a two page letter of what I needed from him if we were to stay together and heal together. I was willing to walk by his side as long as he could accept what I needed from him for my own healing while he found his way through recovery. For us, that worked. Others may have found solutions that helped them as well.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. It was not meant to be. I really hope you are able to find what you need to help yourself heal and move forward.

Find a path to peace,
~C~

[maggie]

Deb,

I definitely do not have the answer to your question, but I feel it is important to let you know that I am struggling with the same question.

How do they let us know that they realize and understand how deceitful and disloyal this was and how much they hurt us? A simple apology, regardless of how sincere, just isn't enough.

I don't want to punish him, I don't want to scold like a parental figure, I am just hoping that as a big boy.... an adult male....he can slowly begin to appreciate the seriousness of this behavior.

An apology for getting intoxicated and being talked into doing something foolish for one night for a laugh, is very different from an apology for living a secret life that is disloyal and disrespectful to your partner.

As many PAs and SOs have stated here: It is their actions that are meaningful now, not their words. Anyone can say anything.

[Life-lies-trust]

He doesn't want me talking to him about his step program. His sponsor says it's counterproductive to his recovery. I don't know what other people have done to make amends. DW says they don't talk about that kind of thing at meetings, that the step program is personal. But to me what I'm hearing is he quit, that should be enough, and he's not going to try to do anything else. And that hurts.

Debv,
This is EXACTLY my problem with the 12 step program. But the addict can elect to modify the program to suite them. DG has changed to include me in some of his program. No he has not shared most of what he has done in the program. But he is accountable to his sponsor and to me. I wish for more open and honest communications but I can not force information from him because he is a GREAT lair about anything he does not want to discuss ( the addict is good at lies). Part of what helped is that we sat down and talked about what I need from him in actions and communication for me to feel that this marriage has any hope.

I understand your problems and the 12 step program was written for addicts who's families would support their addiction and minimize, justify, and cover it up. IMHO this is why so many addicts relationships breakup when they go into recovery. The locking us SO out when in the addictive state then lock us out again when they go into recovery. You have to stand up and explain what you have to have to be able to stay in your relationship.

[debv]

I'm back from my weekend at camp. It was refreshing in a way, but painful in a way. But that's another story for another time. All in all being out in the world away from electronics was great, I love the night air and the quiet away from the city lights. We even had a meteor shower the last couple of days to go with our sky full of stars.

Crisodian, a letter is a great idea. It will force me to be clear and define what I want, and it will force me to really decide/understand what I want. It may take some timee to write it, but that's OK. I have time.

Maggie, you are so right. The difference is astounding. Even if you take the drunkenness out of it, living the deceiptful life for a decade and a half is indescribably painful. I'll have to find a calm time to tell DW because it does help define my hurt. Maybe in the letter. Not now, right before bed.

LLT, yes, I do not understand the 12-step program at all. The first step all by itself is a contradiction. I acknowledge I have no power over my addiction? Well, yes you do, you quit. No one locked you in a detox and forced you, no one waved a magic wand and took it away. You had the power to quit now, which means you had the power to quit any time you wanted to. You just didn't want to. Arrgghh it makes me so angry I could spit.

[Life-lies-trust]

Debv,
Boy do you have to feeling right. The other part of 12 step is that they do not seem to be accountable for a slip in the beginning, at least. This is frustrating. The 12 steps also say that the recovery is just for the addict and seems to say that it is has nothing to do with their families. Their families are locked out of their changes and this does not help when their addiction was about hiding. So I see part of the 12 step process is to enforce the hiding and secrets. This is what I really hate and DG understand this frustrating part. No he does not share everything about HIM and only him with me. I'm not sure who this person is yet (DG) because I do NOT see lots of changes in him. Maybe in time it will be better but I'm not sure what I am looking for.

[debv]

I'm not sure who this person is yet (DG) because I do NOT see lots of changes in him. Maybe in time it will be better but I'm not sure what I am looking for.

Yes, that's exactly it. He hid the addiction for 14 years, I only caught him once and he very effectively lied his way out of it, and I took it hook, line, and sinker. I didn't see the addiction, and so it's impossible for me to now see the lack of addiction. I still see the exact same person in DW that I saw when he was actively addicted. He's making some attempts to share with me, but usually only shares anything at all if I ask. If I didn't press him, I don't think he'd talk to me at all. When we do talk he doesn't realize how what he says can be so negative, and how it makes me just want to not talk at all instead of dealing with the put-downs.

I'm also not sure what I'm looking for. I know what I don't want, but I'm not sure what I do want. That's where a letter will help, I think. I need to define what I need and want, and see if DW can do it. Interesting, I just realized we did an exercise with the marriage counselor that was similar to what I just said the letter would contain. DW hasn't followed much of that list, either.

[Life-lies-trust]

Debv,
Yup I see the same thing he only tells me about his addictive behavior if I ask and 2/3's of the time he says that he does not remember what he did. I am tired of having to do all the work to get open communication between us. By the time I met DG he had been into this addiction for 10 years. So I have NEVER seen the person who is clear of addictive behavior. He did admit that he was addiction free for the first month of our marriage. So this is a real mess.

[mell]

I see what you are saying about 12 step programs and agree, in part.

Powerlessness - I am powerless over the addiction. Every time I have relapsed has been a result of trying to beat it on my own as I let my recovery slip. I think the intention is to get addicts to realize it cannot be defeated by will power alone. What we do have is power over our recovery choices.

When I first started going to meetings, I was shocked that others seemed to consider the broken marriage as a secondary concern. In time I came to understand the reasoning. Many addicts come to meetings just for the sake of salvaging the marriage, as in "If I go to some meetings, wife will see I'm working on it and take me back". They are there for the relationship, not recovery. The focus has to be on the addiction.

As far as the hiding and keeping secrets, it is all about growth. The idea of the program is to eventually get to a point where complete disclosure can happen. I will agree, there is a safety net built into it.

Step 9: Made direct ammends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

This step IMO can be used as an excuse not to tell someone about certain acts, behaviors, etc. I have had sponsors tell me that it took them a lot of time to completely unfold and make complete amends. The way I see it, ammends are a process. Addicts have to start opening up. It may not be one big floodgate. It should come out as recovery progresses.

The bottom line is, just like anything else, it is up to the person in recovery. I see the steps as a continuous growth tool. The more I grow personally, the better person I become.

The steps are about life changes, it will not happen in months or even years. It is about lifelong growth.

I have felt that my recovery should be shared with my wife. It is her right to know how it is going. That being said, the process is a slow steady change. A revelation will not occur after every meeting. At times my wife has seemed to expect magnificant growth after every meeting. I went to a conference once and it seems I was expected to have a major noticeable change afterwards. I did not. It was helpful, but focused on enforcing and improving upon the changes already made.

I understand the points made in the thread, not trying to argue them, just defending the 12 step programs a little bit. It is up to the recovering addict. Not only what they divulge, but how sincerely they work their recovery.

-Mell