Searching for the TRUTH

[maggie]

We are going through a particularly difficult stage of recovery.

My H claims that even in his deepest throes of addiction, he never spent more than 5 minutes a week looking at the p or msbtg to it.

He keeps repeating, " it was quick, not like reading a novel "

"I'd open it about once a week and if you were not around and the time was right, I would mstbt to it. "

He says, " I was never so sick that I had to stare at it for 20 minutes or keep going back to look at it during the day "

Then why did he save it and hide it when he would be getting new pics.?

This does not sound truthful, for he sat at his computer screen all day in a private home office and took his laptop into his bed with him every night.

He stopped watching tv, movies and reading, during the 3 years he was using p. The only show he would go into the tv room to watch, was Sopranos, and we all know that nudity and strippers are part of every episode.

I need some PAs here to be honest with me. Please you don't know me or him. Please help me work through this.

Is is credible that a 50 yo man, in front of his computer all day long in his private office, a computer with secret passwords that no one uses, and this same man who takes his laptop to bed every single night, even on weekend nights and has stored and hidden files, clips and pornographic slide shows on this machine............

Is it even remotely possible that he only indulges for 5 minutes out of an entire week..

Please comment...express your opinion... or give insight

I cannot keep nagging him and arguing with him over this. My therapist will not make a definitive statement like, " no this is not believable, " but she did sort of smile and say, Maggie that doesn't sound very realistic, now does it. "

No, it doesn't, but who can I ask other than the guys here on TTF that know all about this.

What kind of frequency patterns are common.

Keep in mind that he had a private office in his home, a passwork protected computer that no-one could log onto. And he admits that he got lost and very sick for the past 3 years.

[artguy34]

I do not wish to sound harsh, but I think you know the answers to your questions. I see it in your post.

You need to express to your H what is acceptable and not acceptable. He needs to be 100% honest and Transparent. No secret passwords, no taking a laptop to bed etc.

Crisodian had a great post about needing to know. It was basically her need to "know the extent" of what I was doing, instead of just knowing what I did. And believe me, it was tough after two months of sobriety and thinking things were getting better and then WHAM! we re-opened all the scabs when she saw what I was into.

Yea it hurt us both like hell, but as we struggled through it, it was like a cleansing. She didn't feel the dark shroud hanging over her head anymore. And we talked about what I had done and she tried to work with me and accept that it was in the past and let my current actions speak for my sincerity in recovery. She could have easily punished me for the past, but instead she accepted that I was working hard to stay clean and honest.

Ultimately, I think it was my willingness to be open with her about my past and also my transparency to the present which led her to believe I am on the road to recovery. And in my honest opinion, I think your H needs to be open with you and take a deep cleansing.

And to answer your question... No, I firmly do not believe that a person who has saved P files on his computer only viewed for 5 mins a week. I am a PA and that is just out of the realm of possibility. But this is my opinion.

Anyway, there is hope, but it takes a lot of work and commitment on both sides. But it can be done!

Good Luck on your road to healing.

[Mac]

Maggie,
First off, I can't help but go along with Artguy in his response to you. I guess what I want to say is that the only thing I have to take from is my own experience and how absolutely absorbed I was in it in the fairly short span of time I was involved. Looking back I can see how much it affected me mentally, physically, sxually, mood swings, sleep deprivation etc. etc.
From everything you have described this is a full blown P addiction and I can't believe that 5 min a week would get you to the point of the symptons you describe.
It was very, very hard for me to just come out and say how much i was involved. I had admitted to myself how far I had gotten to but had a very difficult time in admitting the extent of it to Jenn.
When this was first discovered I feel like I kicked into a survival mode where i really wasn't thinking about what I had done to cause this, I was only thinking about what I could do to remedy the situation. I felt like divulging too much information would just basically worsen an already bad situation. I felt like I decided in my mind what could be accepted and what would cross the line and I was determined not to cross the line. In looking back I realize how in holding back it increased the tension and lengthened the time it took to deal with what had to be dealt with.
Coming to understand how this was affecting me was where I started to head in the right direction and it was only then that I was able to come to and explain with any kind of honesty where I had truly been.
Follow your instincts, you are already telling yourself this is unbelievable. What is going on now to make you believe that he is working towards recovery? Counselling is good, a filter on the computers is good. The filter I was reluctant in the beginning to do but it was something that I felt quite good about when I did do it. It was the one thing i could give to Jenn to make myself accountable and to show her I was serious about recovery. Full access to my computer and computer history is again something that I feel is important for me to show her I have nothing to hide.
For us PAs, it is a very hard thing for us to come to grips with and to put out in the open where this has taken us. For me, having Jenn by my side through all of this, just knowing she was there to support me enabled me to go where I needed to go and that means going to places I did not want to go to.
Be patient but ask the questions until you are satisfied with the answers.
I feel that as a PA it is inherent that we want to minimize this so that we minimize the damage it causes. Only in honestly accepting the true extent of where we have been and what we have been into can we truly begin to head towards recovery.
I wish you all the best, it's a long and hard journey for us all, for me it's been worth the trip.
Mac

[artguy34]

Mac, that was a great post. You are 100% spot on. One of the statements you made really stood out for me and I think is important for all couples here...

Counselling is good, a filter on the computers is good. The filter I was reluctant in the beginning to do but it was something that I felt quite good about when I did do it. It was the one thing i could give to Jenn to make myself accountable and to show her I was serious about recovery. Full access to my computer and computer history is again something that I feel is important for me to show her I have nothing to hide.

100% transparency, 100% of the time to prove we have nothing to hide. That to me is how we begin to earn some trust back from our SO's. Just because our SO's are willing to support us and help us heal, doesn't mean all is forgiven. We as PA's still have a lot of work to do and many fences to mend.

[Benedict]

If he took his laptop to bed with him you can be SURE it was not just 5 mins per week. I've done the same thing in the past, and it was typically 30 mins or more and probably at least every second day. And if he was saving files, it was definitely much longer than 5 mins per session.

He is denying it because the consequences of being honest, ie. your reaction, is more than he wants to cope with. Men routinely lie to avoid drastic consequences, even for trivial things. eg. how many men answer the question honestly when asked "do you think I look fat in this dress". How much less likely to answer honestly when asked, "How many hours a week did you spend looking at porn". Sure, it may not be the smartest strategy for the long-term health of the relationship, but he is trying to avoid emotional trauma right now. Not excusing that behaviour, just explaining it.

IMO, you need to really figure out how important it is for you to know the details of the past, as opposed to knowing the reality of current behaviour. No judgements here, it may be crucial to you to know about the past. But also, maybe its not. And the current commitments to behaviour here-now are whats important. Only you can decide where the balance lies and whether you need the honesty about the past in order to commit to the future.

[maggie]

Mac, ArtGuy and Benedict,

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider my questions and then opening up your thoughts and ideas for all to examine.
Now that's being totally vulnerable and an easy target!

Not an easy thing to do. Much appreciated.

We are having a very challenging time right now, so having the neutral, yet personal input from others who are dealing with this problem right now is so valuable.

[maggie]

Mac,

Thank you for your honesst thoughts and advice. I believe that what you are saying is that, the PA himself will not be able to heal, until he comes to grips with the extent of his involvement.

I agree. If a person does not acknowledge how deeply he is involved in something, he will not have all of the critical facts that are necessary to avoid falling into that same pit again.

As the SO, and after reading many of the journals here, I believe that I cannot heal until I can ask him any question about this and get the truth from him.

It is probably good ( in a very tiny way ) that he wants to minimize his involvement, and by involvement I mean the level of his use, the time he spent viewing, saving and thinking about the images. His deceitful thoughts of finding a way to get me out of the room or his anticipation of what he could do, once I was out or asleep or in the shower. It's good in a very tiny way that he is so embarrassed by this behavior that he minimizes it.

But, it is not good in any way toward his healing and our efforts to rebuild trust.

I do trust he is telling me the truth when he says, he is humiliated, disgusted and ashamed of his behavior. I do trust that he is avoiding his laptop at night and that he is seeking help from a therapist to get control of this. I do trust that he does not want to ever get caught up in this again, but if he holds on to ( even a tiny bit ) of it all, I don't think he can ever be 100% clean.

After horrific arguing the last 3 days, he is now changing his story to:
" Ok, maybe I did do this more than once a week for 5 minutes, but at the very most it was twice a week "

So now after almost one year of lies, denials and half truths, he is now admitting that maybe it was " twice a week for 5 minutes "

It's not the minutes. Minutes are just a number. I am seeking the truth about how deeply this had become a part of his life. His daily thoughts and actions. How it affected his attitude toward me. I know what I saw and I know what I felt those 3 years, and I knew something was very wrong.

But, if he can't understand the gravity of it all, how can he ever stay clean.

Jenn has been very supportive toward you, and although I could feel her suffering and pain, she has controlled her anger and stayed positive and loving. I read this in her posts and now I am reading it in yours.

I agree that having the love and support of your partner is so beneficial. I tried, but I was not able to be loving or kind. I guess I felt that by being loving and kind and trusting...is the way all of this happened. I forgave or overlooked his coldness and meaness the past few years, attributing it to illness, or stress or sadly, even considering that this is how all long term marriages end up. Cold, disconnected roomates tolerating each other. Then, I found the porn and the time frame of his files were an exact template of the time line of developing a cold, distant attitude.

I talked with Jenn about computer filters. I commend you for taking that step, that is solid evidence of a strong commitment to earn back her trust. My H is afraid to add a filter because it is a company issued laptop and he has to bring it in for servicing and upgrades. I know that sounds as though he is still searching or saving p on the laptop, but I really don't think so. I think he has immense ' pride ' and he cannot handle anyone in the tech dept knowing that he had a problem like this.

Sorry for all the chatter.

I appreciate the kind and thoughtful responses I receive from both you and Jenn. You guys are special stars. Keep the magic going.

[artguy34]

My H is afraid to add a filter because it is a company issued laptop and he has to bring it in for servicing and upgrades. I know that sounds as though he is still searching or saving p on the laptop, but I really don't think so. I think he has immense ' pride ' and he cannot handle anyone in the tech dept knowing that he had a problem like this.

If you're satisfied that he is not looking at P on his laptop, then that is your decision. However the excuse of worrying if the tech people at his company finding out is kinda lame. Seriously, they can check his history and find what he's been up to even if he deleted it off his browser. Besides a good excuse to put filtering software would be that he did not want any kids using his laptop without his knowledge and accessing unwanted sites.

It could be a stretch from the truth, but hey, any company should be happy with employees who want to be proactive right? At least then, you can have your filter and accessability to what he is doing. Accountability for him, "some" peace of mind for you.

My wife installed K-9 on my work computer w/out any filters. So I have access to anything, but she can see what I'm doing any time she feels like it. So it makes me be accountable for myself. And let me tell you... its a great feeling as a PA, knowing that I have been clean and I don't have to hide anything anymore.

Just my opinion.

[Mac]

Maggie
I to had a really tough time getting everything out there. At the start I tried to minimize everything that i was into. I know at the time Jenn was asking for more specifics as to what exactly i was into and I just couldn't for some reason bring myself to admit to it all. Jenn at one time checked out a site that i had been on and she was completely blown away by what she found. I remember saying to her, well you know very well what i was watching, i guess i assumed that she did, but if you have never been on these sites it stands to reason that you she wouldn't know what was there. This was an eye opener for me when she physically saw what i was watching. No wear to hide at this point. I still struggle to talk openly about this and it is something that still comes up from time to time. We both struggle with how much detail should be brought out.
Talk about rambling. I guess what I am trying to say is it is really tough to understand and come to terms with this stuff ourselves, so it is even tougher for us to come to terms with telling you guys the nasty details. I think all couples will be different in exactly how much of the details have to come out.

All the best
Mac

[65Ford]

Just to offer a different opinion re: the IT at work excuse, I would tend to believe this one. That's also where I drew the line, and it's a barrier I never, ever crossed: using a work computer for p. I know other people have, and do, but it IS possible that he never did. Just playing devil's advocate here. :)

Now if only I had had the same control on the home computer... :(