Please consider and post your thought on this question.

[maggie]

I feel selfish asking PAs to answer this question.

I need this information for my own sanity, it's just for me and my search to find logic and trust again in my marriage.

My PA initially claimed to delete all disgusting videos and pics because they made him sick. Later, he admitted watching some of them. Months later, after much screaming and hysterics, he admitted watching them, mstbg to them and hiding them for years.

He is committed to recovery and gaining control back in his life, for this addiction nearly cost him his career as well as his marriage.

He is seeing a good therapist, does not use the computer when he is alone at night and avoids triggers.

That said: He still has a problem admitting the level of his involvement and the process to get him to admit having ' porn images in his head ' was brutal. Accusations, denials, fighting and finally after months.... admitting he did have them and has to chase them away now and then.

My question:

He still insists that he only opened and looked at p once a week for 5 minutes. He says it only took him a few min to msbt, and a few min to look, so it was a once a week for 5 minute addiction.

This sounds illogical to me. Like the alcoholic who has one drink a month.

I tried to explain to him that even if he had only looked for 5 minutes a week, he must have been thinking about what he viewed many times during the week. Everyone close to him noticed his cold, disconnected attitude the 3 years of his using, so to this noticable personality change, and attitude toward work and family, it is difficult to believe that this ' lifestyle ' only involved 5 minutes a week.

I appreciate any comments. Harsh facts, gentle guidance or even if you're telling me that it isn't important to know this.

[artguy34]

Maggie,

This is just my personal thoughts on your post here, so please do not think I speak for all PA's...

IMO, I still believe your H has not 100% admitted his addiction to PA and most importantly, everything to you. As a PA, I find it incredibly hard to insist that viewing P only lasted as long as 5 mins. Because in my honest opinion, if anyone can control their viewing to 5 mins per week, there really wouldn't be any addiction right?

However, one thing I can see here is that he must be experiencing some real self esteem/embarrassment issues for him to cling on to the responses that he "only" viewed once a week etc. etc. etc. And as you posted, he would deny, deny and deny until he finally caved in and admitted to what he was denying. Sometimes months later.

In my own experience, I was embarrassed and humiliated when Crisodian would find our about my P use. And every time I told her I would quit. And every time I believed myself. But... after a short while, I would go back to it and hide it even better. Finally when the walls came crashing down, I had to break free of my embarrassment and open myself up to my wife. It all had to come out and after really thinking about my past, I finally looked at her and said I have a problem. I can't stop myself. From that moment on, I let go of the embarrassment. I was able to talk to her about my issues and we tried hard to work together.

Another thing I see with your H is something I talked with a Psychologist about as well. It's the rationalizing our P-use. My Psych made a good point. We as PA's have most likely been addicted before we met our wives/girlfriends. And thus we're not going to admit that we're into P & MB. So we hide it from them thinking it is ok. For guys, we compartmentalize everything. We can separate many different aspects of our lives. Kinda like shelves in our garage. We have one shelf for Family, One for work, one for our marriage, one for PA etc.

We justify our addiction by saying that what we're doing is only fantasy and not real. It's ok because it's all pretend. That's why it's so easy to be desensitized to HC-P. In our minds it is nothing but actors pretending. So who cares what they feel, they're getting paid a lot of money, why should I care? As addicts, we feel it is our own personal right to view P and MB. Why should anyone tell us what we can and cannot do to our own bodies? So when our SO's catch us those first initial times, we get embarrassed because "they found out our dirty little secret". Through this embarrassment we make the promise of never doing it again. Why? Because we do not want to be embarrassed again.

Truth is... subconsciously we cling on to what we perceive is rightfully "ours" and how dare they take that away from us. We become defensive, over protective and down right rude. We justify in our minds that we're not hurting anyone because we are only doing things for ourselves.

Reality then comes crashing down... and when we finally get our heads out of our derrier's, we realize just how much damage we cause to those we love. We realize just how deep our addiction became and wonder WTF are we doing to ourselves?

Sometimes the damage is so severe, we as PA's lose everything. Our jobs, our family's, everything. Sometimes the damage is so severe that some PA's cannot or will not quit.

Back to point...

It sounds like your H is doing well in recovery, but take it from me and many other PA's, when we finally let go of our fear and embarrassment and stop the lies, it feels like a huge burden is lifted. No more worrying about adding lies to the lies. No more worrying about which lie was said. No more!

As my Psychologist said, when you only have the truth to deal with, life becomes less complicated. Amen Brother! ^:)^

[maggie]

Thank you Artguy,

As many times before, you have answered my questions with logical facts, some can be harsh, but all are answered with truth and kindness.
Thank you.

I understand what you wrote about believing ' it's our thing, we're not hurting anyone by it ' and the determination to keep it a secret and private.

But, as you have come to realize, just because a person does something in private, by himself, that doesn't guarantee that it won't affect many other people.

I am at a turning point in all of this now. I may be just cracking up finally, this entire process...mess has been coming in waves for 10 months now. Anger, shock, humiliation, forgiveness, sympathy, and now back to anger over the continual lies.

He is trying. He was a good man. He has some outstanding qualities. He is sorry.

But he keeps lying about his frequency and involvement. This means he doesn't have a full understanding of the gravity of what he has done to me, to himself and to us.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

maggie-

What can you accept? If he is done with the behavior, is that enough for you? Can you move on if you never get the truth as long as he never looks at P again? Does he know what you need so that you can move on?

I mean, you have probably told him you want the truth many times and in many ways. But, he will give you what you accept. You are the only one who knows what you need to heal and move forward. If you can't move on without him admitting what he's done and fully dealing with it, have you told him straight out?

Like, "I don't believe that you could have changed so much and acted so coldly towards me for something you did just 5 minutes a week. I believe it is much deeper and intense than that. If you can't be honest with yourself and with me, I don't think either of us can heal. PLease think about it, but know that if you can't come clean with me at (some time frame) then I can't move on with you."

I am not saying that's what you shuld say, but I just want to know if he is fully aware of what you can and can't accept and what the consequences of further lies will be. But, if you can find peace even without the truth, you need to decide that for yourself too.

I wish you well Maggie.

[cyberpunk]

Imagine a garbage can that you keep stuffing things into and when it gets full you pack it in and stuff more things into it. I'm sure you've seen this before and that when you start removing garbage out of the can it seems to stay full for a while, not matter how much your remove.

I think this is the way with the lies of many PAs, both to their loved ones but also to themselves. We've lied for so long and so many times that one round of honesty isn't enough to clear out all of the lies. I often try to come completely clean, only to remember a few days how much I have missed. Also, it sometimes takes me a while to admit to myself that "only 5 minutes" was really a couple of hours.

I guess it just takes time, but, if he is working on it, I think it will eventually get worked out. The key is whether he is truly working on it or not.

[chasman62]

Maggie:

Realistically there are only two possibilities:

(1) He is telling you the truth, in which case he hardly qualifies as a PA at all. You may not like him doing that for even 5 mins a week and I don't blame you, but he could stop almost immediately with no problem at all. I suspect there are literally millions of men who do that and quite either because their wives find out or they just decide they are sick of it.

(2) He is lying. He may be lying because he is embarrassed to be doing this at all, and/or his use is much worse and he is afraid it will destroy your relationship.

My personal feeling is that I could not even consider recovering properly until I had fully disclosed the extent of my addiction to my SO, whether she really wanted to hear it or not (and I suspect most do need to hear it no matter how painful). The truth is that most PAs when in that binge mode will view p and mb almost incessantly. When my wife was away for some reason I would spend literally hours of the day on the computer watching p, chatting, and mbing. When she was here, I would know every nuance of her routine. How long it took at the gym, at the grocery store, at my sons soccer practice and I would plan my activities around it. She has just left now to pick up a few things at the store. That means 20-30 mins. I would be on the minute she left and done and cleaned up 5 mins before she came back. That is PA.

You asked for honesty. Sorry if that is too honest.