Question about the lies.

[Life-lies-trust]

This is a question that has been bothering me and I have not asked my PA/MB about it. I would like input from other PA/SA/MB's.

The PA lies about the addiction. How much is lied about from the PA? Will the PA ever tell their SO the truth or does it have to be dug out by the SO?

[OpenEyes]

Okay, that is the biggest and hardest one of all, but I will try to answer it.

All of us claim to be done with the lying, done with the deceit and being honest. And we actually think we are, and that is the rub. Being a PA means that we have quite a skill set and a lot of it is automatic, including lying. But, that automatic lying machine call the PA is able to be turned off. This take a heck of a change in base belief. Truth causes less pain than covering the truth with what I think she wants to hear. We go from controlling )or thinking we control what is going on to trusting others to forgive us, for messing up, for our past, for bad choices, when we cannot really forgive ourselves. Not yet. And, it takes a heck of a lot of will power and patience on the part of the SO, and asking the same thing a lot of different ways. Sorry, but I have not read any others that it has worked differently. Maybe a different speeds, but seems to be a general process.

Now, does that make all the past suddenly clear, nope, it does not. Alika told me this during one of our talks, and I am going to paraphrase it, since I do not recall the exact wording: "What you remember now as truth is not going to be the truth in the future. When you look at it with fresh eyes and feelings, you will see more, understand more, and maybe the truth was actually a lie, a lie to yourself, then a lie to others. And as you remember those things, you will uncover more things that you hid from yourself, kept buried or just plain forgot. Your truth WILL change, and as it does, I need to know". I have one dang insightful SO.

So, do you need to DIG? Actually it helps, but if ti is done as a confrontational standpoint, then I see very little progress. If you two work on it as more of a mental exercise, what does the PA remember about X event. How does he feel about X event? How would his feelings change his actions at X event, if he had FELT then. Question, answer, listening, asking more has been very informative to Alika and to myself. But to her credit, she maintained a very carefully neutral tone and attitude or even caring attitude with me, as the memories got painful for me. And she is the one so hurt. She amazes me. But this has helped us both.

Will the PA ever admit all his lies, probably not. Neither will I, but I will admit to every single one of them I recal, know about or think about. But 30 years of P use is a lot of deception to remember it all. But, as things jog my memory, you bet I will be "manning up" and taking my lumps, taking the reactions, 'cause my SO deserves the truth.

I hope this answer helps.

I wish you Peace, LLT.

OpenEyes

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor. ~Dr. Alexis Carrel

[dave]

I think the shame over our affliction is a huge roadblock to honesty. Repression and conscious hiding the truth are protective habits, that do us little good in the long run, but they work in the short run - if we keep up a program of recovery, reality will grow.

Dave

[Life-lies-trust]

Thanks Dave you give some hope where there is very little positives in this nightmare.

[wifeofchewy]

My H and I had this very discussion last night. There was something else that just came up the other day that he had not be honest about with me. Yet again may I add. There have been many truths that pop up once I have found out or dug deeper. He says it's because he doesn't remember. I found a picture in his sent email from last July (yes, almost a year ago now) but I had to bring it up because it hurt me tremendously to see this picture he sent to some random girl of himself. He was in my children's boutique (I must have left for a bit to get supplies) which made it even harder to see and made me sick to my stomach. It's one thing to disrespect me at home, another thing alltogether to disrespect me in MY place of business... MY establishment that I have worked extremely hard for and could ruin my entire reputation or even go to jail over! But it also hurt me because he never told me that he was chatting with women since we have been married, and that he was touching himself and sending pictures.. since we have been married. I knew about times before we were married, but not since. This was two flippin days before our daughter's 2nd birthday when he was supposed to be "sober". Pffft! This is why I got upset. I don't expect him to remember this specific incident almost a year later. I'm sure he couldn't honestly tell me how many girls or who he talked to or what was said, etc. from a year ago. But a year ago when this happened.. and he relapsed- Why didn't he tell me? Once again, I gave him EVERY opportunity to come clean about everything. We've been over this several times now. There are always more and more things that come out.... but ONLY after I catch him in a lie or physically find something from digging. I feel like I've been the most rational & supportive wife with this whole situation. I have loved him, supported him, helped him any way I could, was understanding and extremely forgiving. Still.. he didn't tell me everything. He says it's because he blocks things out of his mind. I told him it's because he has lied to everyone so much, including himself that he honestly thinks he's telling the truth. He doesn't know what's true and fiction anymore... the lines are very blurred. So my thing is... are more and more things going to keep coming out? Years down the road? He's sober now, around 6 months... but I can't move on and try to get better, begin trusting, loving, supporting.. if all this crap keeps coming up again and again and again. What if he really has done more than he has told me, but he's lied to himself so much and so deeply that even he honestly doesn't know if it's true or not? Am I supposed to accept that? 10 years down the road, I find out he slept with my best friend... and he blocked it out of his memory and honestly didn't remember? To me, it's a cop out. There is no doubt in my mind that he is trying really hard now, and really making an effort- more than ever before. But I can't heal and move on, and not hold stuff over his head, or keep bringing crap back up if more stuff keeps coming out. I told him it's like a wound that's trying to heal and then suddenly gets ripped open again and begins to fester all over again. Yeah, the injury happened awhile back.. but it's infected now and recently re-injured. Sorry for the gross anology.. lol But you get the gist. That is how I feel right now. Yes, he is 6 months sober which is fantastic! But I am 2 days into finding out more lies so it's like I'm back to square 1 almost. My heart is breaking all over again. All I want is the answers to my questions, then I think I could move on. I have to know the why's, where's, what's, when's, etc. so I quit torturing myself over and over again with all these different scenarios of what could have happened and the "what if's". But he says he can't give me the answers. I don't know what to do. Do you have any insight... as a PA as to how I, and SO deals with this in a way that is supposed to be the right way? A way that doesn't make you flip out? A way that doesn't make you angry at my questions? A way that helps you understand where I'm coming from or how I must be feeling? I need some insight here because it's been a tough few days.

Okay, that is the biggest and hardest one of all, but I will try to answer it.

All of us claim to be done with the lying, done with the deceit and being honest. And we actually think we are, and that is the rub. Being a PA means that we have quite a skill set and a lot of it is automatic, including lying. But, that automatic lying machine call the PA is able to be turned off. This take a heck of a change in base belief. Truth causes less pain than covering the truth with what I think she wants to hear. We go from controlling )or thinking we control what is going on to trusting others to forgive us, for messing up, for our past, for bad choices, when we cannot really forgive ourselves. Not yet. And, it takes a heck of a lot of will power and patience on the part of the SO, and asking the same thing a lot of different ways. Sorry, but I have not read any others that it has worked differently. Maybe a different speeds, but seems to be a general process.

Now, does that make all the past suddenly clear, nope, it does not. Alika told me this during one of our talks, and I am going to paraphrase it, since I do not recall the exact wording: "What you remember now as truth is not going to be the truth in the future. When you look at it with fresh eyes and feelings, you will see more, understand more, and maybe the truth was actually a lie, a lie to yourself, then a lie to others. And as you remember those things, you will uncover more things that you hid from yourself, kept buried or just plain forgot. Your truth WILL change, and as it does, I need to know". I have one dang insightful SO.

So, do you need to DIG? Actually it helps, but if ti is done as a confrontational standpoint, then I see very little progress. If you two work on it as more of a mental exercise, what does the PA remember about X event. How does he feel about X event? How would his feelings change his actions at X event, if he had FELT then. Question, answer, listening, asking more has been very informative to Alika and to myself. But to her credit, she maintained a very carefully neutral tone and attitude or even caring attitude with me, as the memories got painful for me. And she is the one so hurt. She amazes me. But this has helped us both.

Will the PA ever admit all his lies, probably not. Neither will I, but I will admit to every single one of them I recal, know about or think about. But 30 years of P use is a lot of deception to remember it all. But, as things jog my memory, you bet I will be "manning up" and taking my lumps, taking the reactions, 'cause my SO deserves the truth.

I hope this answer helps.

I wish you Peace, LLT.

OpenEyes

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor. ~Dr. Alexis Carrel

[JenMac]

WifeofChewy,
I am so sorry for your pain! So hard to have all those wounds reopened each time a new revelation is told! Remember to look after yourself first! Practice good self care especially when you are suffering. Hard to do but a must for our sanity!
Jenn

[gnein]

I think the shame over our affliction is a huge roadblock to honesty.

That is certainly a big part of it. Other factors might be fear of the SO's reaction ("if she finds out, she'll leave me"), deceiving ourselves that it doesn't matter ("hey, it's not as if I'm cheating on her"), or the old lie about how I'll quit next time ("it will only be just this once, if I don't do it again it doesn't matter").

The PA might even believe they're going to quit after this one "last" session. Often addicts with lie to themselves about their problem, whether it be related to P, drugs, alcohol or whatever. Once you're lying to yourself, you're going to have a hard time being honest with anyone else.

[65Ford]

Wow. This is a tough one, and one I am currently wrestling with myself as a newly admitted PA.

When I was "caught," all I could think of to tell her was I betrayed her trust. I said I told her three years ago I would never do it again, I promised I would never do it again, and I did. I broke a promise, I broke a sacred trust. I think in the moment, we were both more upset over that than what had actually occurred. (The positive is that after all these years, it did convince me finally that I have a problem and led me here, but that's another story...)

At this point, no, she does not know the complete story, the depths of my now-recognized addiction. Yet. This is going to take time, I'm afraid.

I guess the only thing I can say as a PA is the guilt and pain of lying to someone I love is the most painful thing I have ever experienced. Far moreso than lying to myself. One other thing, if this helps, is that this is the only thing I have lied to her about. Not that that makes it better, but it's a start.