Does It Get Easier To Hear Their Confessions?

[TooSensitive]

Does it get easier to hear their confessions? I am not talking about disclosure, per se. I am talking about accountability, I suppose. When they are coming home from work and immediately confessing to you whatever s*xual struggles they had that day, to what degree and to what level. My h didn’t give me details I didn’t want or need to hear, only those that were relevant. The most he told me was that he first noticed her b/c of how she was dressed, which then led him to start fantasizing. He did not share the particular fantasy, b/c I have told him I don’t want to know that part, ever. He didn’t even describe to me how she was dressed. I asked what she was wearing, b/c I wanted to know. He said she was wearing shorts. I asked if they were short-shorts. He said no, just regular length shorts. I said, “I figured out awhile ago that skin is one of your triggers.” He was silent after I said that.

My h has only done this a few times these past 2-1/2 years. It has been awhile since the last time. He confessed what I’ll call a “minor” struggle to me yesterday. Yet it felt like it carried all the weight of a full-blown disclosure, even though I’ve never been given one of those. But at the same time, I can imagine what it would feel like to get one. After knowing what I went through last night, I don’t think I’d be able to handle it.

I suffered horribly last night, in the aftermath of his “confession”, which was of only one single incident, insignificant when compared to some of the other things he’s done. In the end, it still felt very painful for me to hear. It still felt like a deep betrayal. It hurts me deeply that other women still have the ability to do this to him.

Our CSAT told us that he doesn’t think my h should disclose past incidents to me at this point, but he should tell me about anything new as it comes up, b/c I need and I deserve to have validation, which I’ve rarely been given. I also felt strongly that I needed to get that validation of what I still see him do, that he never seems able to admit to. Now that I’ve been given this, I am not so sure I want it any more.

I used to be better at detachment, than I am now. It used to be easier for me to hear his confessions that first year, as few as those were. They became harder to hear, as we went along. Last night was the hardest one yet. Why is this, I wonder?

Neither one of us knows how to be there for the other one. I used to be able to be there for him, but I can’t help but feel that since he has never learned how to be there for me, when it comes to me reeling from his addiction, it began to feel as if I was the only one giving, and he was doing all the taking. I felt taken for granted. I felt as if I was taking all the responsibility. I began to feel alone, b/c he would leave me alone at least figuratively, whenever I was struggling b/c of something he’d done. At some point, you just start shutting down, due to this.

I said to him last night, “I’m sorry I can’t be there for you right now. I need to deal with my own stuff. I know you can’t be there for me right now, b/c you are dealing with your own stuff.” He replied, “I need to learn how to be there for you.” I think that was the last thing he said before going up to bed a short time later. It is so sad how right now, we are both sitting in our own pain, unable to reach out to the other.

He never asked me how I was feeling, in the aftermath of what he told me. I couldn’t bring myself to ask him how he was feeling. I was already feeling too distraught myself. I had nothing left to give to him last night. I needed all my strength and all my resources for me. I was really struggling to get through what felt like one of the darkest nights of my life. I guess it was a matter of principle that got to me. No matter how “small” the indiscretion, it still has the same ability to rip your heart out. I still felt deeply hurt and betrayed. But, I have been feeling badly about myself again, too. My self-esteem has been slipping. I’m sure that has a lot to do with it.

Does it get easier? Or should I put a stop to this before he has a chance to “confess” to me again? If what I went through last night is going to be the norm whenever he confesses, I don’t think I have it in me to keep enduring that. It will wear me down and destroy me sooner than later.

If he really feels it helps him to tell me, then I want to be able to be there for him in this way. I used to think it would really help me if he told me. But now that he has, I’m not so sure. I don’t know if I want him to tell me any more.

It sort of felt like he was “dumping” on me, for his own selfish reasons. Maybe he was not being selfish; maybe he was doing it for me, or for both of us. I feel very confused about a lot of things right now.

I held strong and never cried in front of him. But it took everything I had not to. He rarely comforts me if I've been crying due to him. Instead, he leaves me alone to get through it.

[Crisodian]

TS,
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear you both are having a tough go at the moment.

On disclosure: Is that something you asked for him to do or is that something he chose to do for transparency?

While being the accountability partner works for many couples, it doesn't work for everyone. I'm wondering, for both your sanity and his support, if he should seek a sponsor/mentor to speak to when he is strugging?

It sounds like you need to be there to support one another as a couple, BUT he needs to find outside support for help when he is struggling, just as you need your own support network for you. Do you think it would help to remove the "disclosure" part and allow you to be able to support each other? Remove the added stress of him "unloading" on you, while maybe sharing he was having a tough time and called a mentor instead?

I asked for that level of disclosure from my H because it works for us for me to be his accountability partner. If that is causing you more stress in your relationship, and setbacks for both of your healing, it might be something to consider putting aside for now and heal together WITHOUT the need for him to report all his struggles to you.

Now, by no means am I saying that he gets a "pass" if that is what you asked for and require from him. That's a choice only you can make : what's right for YOU.

Sending warm thoughts,
~C~

[Hibiscus]

TS, I'm sorry you are experiencing so much pain over your husband's recent disclosure of a triggering incident. I can't really address the original question about it getting easier to hear over time or not. But I still wanted to address a point, based on my own experiences and what I have read in your own posts over time. As much as we SOs all crave honesty and transparency from our PAs, I think there is a line that needs to be drawn to protect our own well being. If it helps the PA to talk about triggering incidents, then by all means they should have someone they can talk to about it. But I don't necessarily think it's healthy, for either partner or the relationship, for that disclosure person to be the partner. A therapist, support group member, close friend, or other family member may be a healthier option. I know for myself that the honesty I crave is validation and confirmation that what I have seen and felt over the years was indeed accurate. For so many years I was given the "crazy talk" - it didn't happen, I was crazy, I was trying to pick a fight, imagining things, etc. Things that were right in front of my face, I was told did not exist. I don't really think what I want is to know every instance he sees something in his daily life that appeals to him. But if we were out together and I was convinced I saw him clearly react to someone, and he denied it - well, we'd have a problem then. I would need him to be honest in the moment, or at whatever point I decide to bring it up. I don't need to hear the nitty gritty details, but I need the validation of him confirming what I was witnessing. Over the past 9 months of recovery, I have found that past incidents sometimes pop into my head, often triggered by something I see or experience now. Often it will bring to mind an incident that occurred in the past where he denied something that appeared so obvious to me. Now, even though it's in the past (and in some cases, MANY years in the past) I feel like I need to ask the question one more time to see what answer I am given by this new, healthier version of my husband. Even though it's often unpleasant to hear the new answers, I find the genuine nature of those answers to be reassuring. I've also found that, with time, we are reaching a point where we can acknowledge either attractive people or glaringly obvious displays, in the moment, and then let them go. For a long time my husbands immediate reaction was to deny he even saw the obvious. Now we are both getting better at saying, "Yikes, what is that person thinking" or sometimes even, "what a beautiful girl and a very flattering outfit"...which needless to say, is a huge step for me! For myself, I feel like I need that level of comfort because I don't want to feel like I am walking around in a horror movie of sorts, waiting for the next trigger to pop out from around the corner, and have us both denying it exists. So my new mantra is: acknowledge and release. Now I may be fooling myself. Maybe we have been so dang busy lately that I don't have time to be triggered and my mind is preoccupied so I'm not noticing. But we're still smack dab in the middle of the "summer edition" of triggers, yet I have been much less triggered lately. We will be at our daughter's college campus this coming weekend, so we'll see if that holds up, lol! What I'm trying to say is, maybe you don't need to hear what triggers him now when he not in your presence. He needs to be aware of it and make a conscious effort to build strategies to deal with it. But, in reading your posts over time, I feel like your stronger need may be for him to fully acknowledge past incidents that are still bothering you and current incidents that occur when you are together. Only you know for sure, but I thought I would toss that out there. Hang in there, TS - we all know how hard this is and how much of a struggle it is to find the path that works for each of you individually, as well as together as a couple.

[TooSensitive]

Thanks, Cris. I thought hearing about his struggles was what I needed. Now, I'm not so sure. I need to know "if" he's struggling, but maybe it's better if I don't know why. Maybe I need to hear even less details. Yet there is a part of me that becomes curious and wants to know more. I have a need to understand the level of his addiction more than I have been given the opportunity to, up to this point. At the same time, it is so very hard to hear about it. All this time, I've wanted to hear about it. Now that I have, it feels unbearable to me.

Maybe it will be easier when my self-esteem increases again. It was at a fairly good level earlier this year. I don't know what happened to it. I guess it is just part of that rollercoaster that seems to encompass all things.

My h has never given me full disclosure. He has only dripped a few things. I don't know who could possibly serve as his accountability partner, other than me. He no longer goes to meetings. And I can't say I am upset about that, b/c there were reasons why that drove a wedge between us, too. He chose to let them direct even what was going on between him and I. He was one of the flock, and within the flock, relationships remained a distant second to whatever they decided for him. I was usually left standing on the sidelines alone. My h often acted as if his addiction and his recovery were none of my business.

I am not sure where else to go for my own support right now. I come here, I go to my mood disorder support meetings, and we both go to couples counseling with a CSAT. Sometimes I think I may need to get back into my own individual therapy, too. I can't openly talk about what goes on at my meetings. I can only talk about my feelings as a result. It helps, but in between meetings, during those times of intensity, it can be really hard to get through. My friends don't really understand, and the one who does most is about to get married. I won't unload on her at the moment. My sister is pretty good at listening when I need her to, but even she doesn't fully understand. And she is so busy with her 3 kids much of the time. My therapist was the only one who ever seemed to understand.

I guess I was just hoping that someone would tell me it does get easier to hear what they have to say. But my fear is that it won't, and I can't have it destroy me. It was too hard to put myself back together when I did it the first time. And where I was wasn't even due to knowing everything he'd done. What I knew was limited and through my own discoveries and observations. I only knew of his behaviors in general and a few specific incidents. In the beginning, I took what little he told me quite well. It felt as if I was stronger back then, in many respects. Somehow, along the way, I've lost some of that strength. I don't think I had hit rock bottom yet, back in the beginning. What seemed to make me hit rock bottom was all I didn't know, that he refused to tell me.

ETA: I am also trying to figure out why it feels like it hurts more now, than it did before. I don't know why I took what he told me last night so hard. Maybe b/c it was on the heels of a very difficult weekend for me.

[TooSensitive]

Thx, H, I was typing my reply to Cris as you were posting your reply to me, so just saw it now! What you describe as where your h and you were hits home for where my h and I have been, too. Maybe you are right. Maybe it is more important for me to get that validation in terms of what happens when I am there. Maybe it feels more damaging b/c I am not there.

I am the one who has been repeatedly asking for this transparency. My h has given it to me on a few rare occasions. In the past, I always took it fairly well. It didn't hit me in the way this time around did. He also now realizes the value of transparency for himself. I think he is doing it for both of us, as well as for our marriage. I thought I was strong enough to hear it, like I was before. This is the part that makes no sense to me. The only thing I was questioning was whether or not I was strong enough to hear his full disclosure of the past. After last night, I don't feel I am strong enough to hear a full disclosure of his past.

[Crisodian]

Thanks, Cris. I thought hearing about his struggles was what I needed. Now, I'm not so sure. I need to know "if" he's struggling, but maybe it's better if I don't know why. Maybe I need to hear even less details. Yet there is a part of me that becomes curious and wants to know more. I have a need to understand the level of his addiction more than I have been given the opportunity to, up to this point. At the same time, it is so very hard to hear about it. All this time, I've wanted to hear about it. Now that I have, it feels unbearable to me.

For me personally, it does really get easier. But, I have also learned to accept when he says "I had a tough day" and not press for more unless he is willing to share AND I am willing to hear it, no matter what. That's a tough line to walk. I think each of us has to decide for ourselves what our limits are.

Maybe it will be easier when my self-esteem increases again. It was at a fairly good level earlier this year. I don't know what happened to it. I guess it is just part of that rollercoaster that seems to encompass all things.

Ah. The beloved roller coaster. If you figure out how to get off, please let me know. I haven't yet. :) All kidding aside, this ride is a bumpy one. No doubt about that. Maybe it's time to focus on you? Let go of the PA monster's coat tails for a while and just work on your own "self"?

My h has never given me full disclosure. He has only dripped a few things.

Curiousity, was that by your choice or his? If he is willing to share when he is struggling, then why not disclosure?

I don't know who could possibly serve as his accountability partner, other than me. He no longer goes to meetings. And I can't say I am upset about that, b/c there were reasons why that drove a wedge between us, too. He chose to let them direct even what was going on between him and I. He was one of the flock, and within the flock, relationships remained a distant second to whatever they decided for him. I was usually left standing on the sidelines alone. My h often acted as if his addiction and his recovery were none of my business.

Hold the phone a moment. This is his addiction. Not yours. If you are unable to continually be his sounding board and dumping ground, this it is HIS responsibility to handle who takes that roll. You should not feel guilty.

And it sounds like the group he was in was one of the "infamous" ones we hear about on occasion. Makes me nuts to hear about them. Maybe a personal counselor or mentor instead of a group? A close personal friend or confidant? A family member?

Bottom line, IMO (of course), recovery as a couple is a team sport. While it may not be your addiction, it very much is your business if it is impacting you, your health, happiness, life and marriage. Period. And on top of that, no man (or woman) is an island. Took me a long time to learn that. :)

I am not sure where else to go for my own support right now. I come here, I go to my mood disorder support meetings, and we both go to couples counseling with a CSAT. Sometimes I think I may need to get back into my own individual therapy, too. I can't openly talk about what goes on at my meetings. I can only talk about my feelings as a result. It helps, but in between meetings, during those times of intensity, it can be really hard to get through. My friends don't really understand, and the one who does most is about to get married. I won't unload on her at the moment. My sister is pretty good at listening when I need her to, but even she doesn't fully understand. And she is so busy with her 3 kids much of the time. My therapist was the only one who ever seemed to understand.

You have to do what is right for you... and while all of us here empathise and walk this path we know as PA recovery as an SO, none of us stands in your shoes. If you seriously think you need another outlet, please seek one for yourself. This is also very much about your healing and health as well.

I guess I was just hoping that someone would tell me it does get easier to hear what they have to say. But my fear is that it won't, and I can't have it destroy me. It was too hard to put myself back together when I did it the first time. And where I was wasn't even due to knowing everything he'd done. What I knew was limited and through my own discoveries and observations. I only knew of his behaviors in general and a few specific incidents. In the beginning, I took what little he told me quite well. It felt as if I was stronger back then, in many respects. Somehow, along the way, I've lost some of that strength. I don't think I had hit rock bottom yet, back in the beginning. What seemed to make me hit rock bottom was all I didn't know, that he refused to tell me.

That's a powerful self-reflection. Have you said that to him? What you just shared here? Maybe he needs to hear it. Never mind. No "maybe" involved. He needs to hear it.

ETA: I am also trying to figure out why it feels like it hurts more now, than it did before. I don't know why I took what he told me last night so hard. Maybe b/c it was on the heels of a very difficult weekend for me.

Well, I can say the K9 incident I mentioned in my journal burned me to the core. I think it was (in my case) because things had been so good and going so well for so long and then *WHAP*...out of the blue.

When we're down or troubled or struggling ourselves, the weight of a small thing can be the staw on the camel's back (so to speak). AG's therapist was spot on when he warned that the wounds and hurt caused by AG's addiction could come back to haunt me, and us, at any given time. Even 10 years from now. So, everytime I emotionally vomit, I just remind myself that going through this process takes time. There will be good. There WILL be bad. But, one foot in front of the other and learn to fail forward, is the best I can do.

((((HUGS)))) to you during this tough time.

Peace,
~C~

[TooSensitive]

Cris, in so many words, I have told him that self-reflection I shared here yesterday. Maybe what I wrote here is more articulate, and he will better understand. Yesterday, I printed out this thread, as well as that day’s journaling, with the intent of giving it to him to read, but in fearing I might be “dumping” on him as well, I lost my nerve. Last night, I told him I regularly post on a message board like the one I used to (and I have told him this before), without naming TTF specifically. He didn’t ask, and I didn’t tell. He knows the name of the other board, and he knows my user name, but he rarely visited there. He told me it was too painful for him to read of my struggles. I believe he doesn’t want to intrude on me by reading what I’ve written, besides not wanting to feel obligated to read what I’ve written. I believe he’d really rather not know, b/c it’s too painful for him. He is not willing to take on my pain, yet he wants me to take on his, by hearing his disclosure. He already knows all the pain I’ve been in, yet he wants me to take on more. I told him it is the only source for support for me right now. I told him I often feel I don’t get out everything I want to get out, when I verbally tell him things. I said I felt I expressed myself far better with the written word. I mentioned the printouts and how I lost my courage in giving them to him. He told me that if and when I’m ready to give them to him, he’d like to read what I’ve written.

Cris asked, “Curiousity, was that by your choice or his? If he is willing to share when he is struggling, then why not disclosure?”

It was his choice not to disclose. I routinely asked for it, for that first year and a half. He routinely refused to give it to me. He would not admit when he was struggling to me, and he would not admit when he wasn’t. I never knew, other than through my own observations, and then, all I could do was draw my own conclusions. On the surface, he worked hard to appear to be on an even keel. He would claim, generally-speaking, if I would ask, that he no longer does this, and he no longer does that. He wanted to make himself appear as a saint. I would see or hear him doing this, or doing that, which was a contradiction to what he told me. He never once admitted to me that yes, what you saw was what I did. Instead, he would deny doing what I had just seen or heard him do. We have had 2 brief periods of transparency before. Each was about 2 weeks in length. During the last one, which was spring of 2010, he told me, “Most of the time, you were right, I was doing what you saw me do. I just couldn’t admit it to you in that moment.” This dance has been going on for 2-1/2 years now (he first entered recovery in Feb. 2009). If I notice him doing something, confront him, and he admits it on the spot, it will be a huge breakthrough for him. B/c he’s never once done that. Not even once. He has only been able to admit to things with a general blanket statement, such as the one mentioned above; or, with specific incidents, months or years after the fact. And he has only done that maybe 3 or 4 times at most, yet there are hundreds of incidents of which I’m aware, and perhaps thousands of which I am not aware.

I started out feeling strong and hopeful with his recovery. As time went on, and I did not get that disclosure, that is what began to erode me and weaken me. I hit rock bottom in Jan. 2010, after discovering his secret on-line antics with 2 other women. It resulted in a 3-month in-house separation for us. I worked hard on myself during that time. I made progress. When we resumed having a relationship again, that is when I began to crash again. For the first 2 weeks, things were fairly good between us, and he was being transparent with me. He disclosed a couple of single past incidents to me, as well as a few current struggles. I encouraged him to keep doing this. I asked for that full disclosure yet again, reminding him how important that would be for both of us. He still wouldn’t do it. After 2 weeks of transparency otherwise, he stopped giving that to me. I plummeted again. I had to rebuild myself again. I have gone through several cycles now of plummeting and rebuilding.

I eventually stopped asking for disclosure. I not only gave up on it, I also felt after all that work on myself, I did not want to have to plummet after disclosure and then have to rebuild myself yet again. I got to the point where I did not feel strong enough to do it. I felt disclosure would send me much further down than anything else up to that point. I feared it would destroy me. Oddly, once I felt stronger, after bottoming out, I felt less able to hear that disclosure.

After I told my h I felt I could no longer hear it, and why, that was when he decided he wanted to give it to me (around May 2010). He had stopped going to his meetings around that time. He told me the reason why he never gave me disclosure was b/c his sponsor and his group told him he was not ready to give it, and I was not ready to hear it. They’d never even met me! How did they know what “I” was ready for? My needs were so often overlooked by my h. He did whatever they directed him to do. They directed him to keep certain things from me. They directed him not to disclose. So he kept certain things, actually many things, from me. And he did not disclose. When I felt ready, he did not. When he felt ready, I did not. What I once felt I wanted and needed, I now fear. I still harbor feelings of resentment towards my h, his sponsor, and his group. Towards them for interfering the way they did, and towards my h for allowing them to manipulate him, and us, the way he did.

There was no new confession last night, but my h acknowledged recognizing that I was in a “bad place” the night before, and he felt it best to just leave me alone and not talk. He asked me if it was okay for him to admit his struggles to me again, as they happened. I told him my first instinct was to say “yes”, but that I wasn’t really entirely sure. I told him that maybe we needed to try it again, to see how it plays out a second time, for me to know for sure. Though I feared another confession last night when he got home, I did feel better than I did the night before, and better than I did throughout the day. I bounced back quicker and better than I thought I would, though I feel another confession on the heels of the first one would have been too much, and would have sent me right back down again. I feel coming here and writing it all out was what helped me bounce back.

Maybe if he keeps up with this newfound transparency (and he has also added a level of reassurance for me, telling me when he’s “not” been triggered, even though the potential was there), it will help move me towards that place of strength again, in being able to hear his disclosure.

Our CSAT does not feel it is a good idea at this point, since so much time has gone by. He told us last Saturday that he doesn’t feel my h should disclose what’s happened in the past, only what’s going on now, as it happens. Of course, my h and I would have to decide whether or not this is something we want to approach, no matter what our CSAT recommends. It remains a very personal choice between us. It should have always been a very personal choice between us, and not robbed from us by his SA (or SAA) group. But in the end, it was my h who allowed them to rob this from us. I guess back then, he just didn’t know any better. He wasn’t yet able to stand on his own 2 feet. I am trying to rid myself of these feelings of resentment and forgive my h for this. My resentment may be what is really standing in the way of my ability to hear his disclosure. Wrapped up in my feelings of resentment are hurt feelings that I wasn’t important enough to my h back then. My needs were not important enough to him back then. They seem to be more important to him now, even if he doesn’t yet know how to be there for me. I know he’s trying to learn.

ETA: Thank you for all your support, Cris.