How did you set boundaries? Do you still check?

[fragileego]

I am a new mom with a 5-week-old, and am exhausted with this responsibility alone. Adding the mental roller coaster that my h's PA has brought to our lives is almost too much to bear right now, so I'm trying to just take care of me right now as much as I can, and am putting our baby's needs first before dealing with the PA. But! I feel the need to set some boundaries, and I'm not sure how to follow through.

I feel as though I've been pretty clear that I do not want P in our house at all, and I've been very vocal about how it has made me feel. I have sent H a letter and a link to this website with the hope that he will register and work through his issues. He was receptive to my needs in our last couple of conversations, but, just knowing his nature and the way that he handled his smoking addiction, I'm not confident that this will stop anytime soon.

I still check H's computer (nothing since our last conversation, but he did tell me that I could check it), but I hate doing this. Part of me feels I need to stop because it usually only makes me feel worse by confirming my suspicions, but another part of me would like to know what's going on in our relationship and what I'm dealing with (since he has lied to me before).

I'm just wondering if anyone would be willing to share how you've set boundaries with your SO, and also, how you've set boundaries with yourself in terms of checking your SO's computer, phone, etc.?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

hi fragileego-

I first want to point out that there is a difference between you leading your husband's recovery, and him leading it. If you lead it, you seek out resources, try to get him to use them, and generally, worry a lot! That's not to say you shouldn't try and help, not at all. But, if he is committed to recovery, then he leads the recovery, and you support, not the other way around.

If he leads his recovery, then he seeks out resources and he implements them. Recovery is generally more successful when the PA seeks resources and and is proactive in implementing them.

So, back to checking. I was a COMPULSIVE checker. It drove me crazy, but since he didn't tell me anything, I had to check, so I could know what I was dealing with. I didn't feel guilty about checking nor should you. I didn't hide that I was checking either. I checked while he was sitting next to me. There is no shame in making sure your husband isn't lying. You are not the untrustworthy one here. And if he makes you feel bad for checking and not trusting, then he needs more work on his recovery.

As part of my husband's recovery, he installed Netnanny, and I set it up so that the reports went to my computer. That way, I didn't feel the need to check quite so much, because Netnanny reported to me. Also, since he chose Netnanny, and did other things to show me he was committed to recovery (counselling, 12 step program, actually talking to me), my need to check was less and less. My checking was more about finding out about the past, because when he committed to recovery, then I had nothing to find in the present.

I guess for me, the need to check and set boundaries diminished when I saw my husband in active recovery. It takes more than words to prove someone is in recovery. I pray your husband chooses recovery and that you two can rebuild trust in your marriage.

[JenMac]

HI Fragileego!
For me, setting boundaries was deciding what I could live with in my life. And right away, I knew I could not live with P in my life in any way. I knew that I would not feel safe, loved or respected if it continued in my life.
Once I had made those decisions, I told my H clearly what I had decided. Then it was up to him to decide what he was prepared to do. He chose to give up P. I say it in that way, because he wasn't really choosing recovery at that time because he didn't know enough to know he needed recovery. He was only trying to save his marriage at that point.
Once he had made the decision to fight for our marriage, it was up to him to show me his committment in a tangible way. He spoke about counselling, he spoke about computer filters etc. It took a little time for him to actually follow through on what he spoke about but he did do exactly that in time. I feel that my expectations assisted him in making those committments reality.
I did support and guide my H through gathering of information, through digging and finding helpful websites and such. It helped for him to recognize that this was not an isolated problem, that others were experiencing the same troubles.
So yes FE, set your boundaries, determine what it is you need from your H and speak it. He needs to know your expectations.
All the best to you! I am sorry for your pain!!
Jenn

[rosie]

I still check H's computer (nothing since our last conversation, but he did tell me that I could check it), but I hate doing this. Part of me feels I need to stop because it usually only makes me feel worse by confirming my suspicions, but another part of me would like to know what's going on in our relationship and what I'm dealing with (since he has lied to me before).

I'm just wondering if anyone would be willing to share how you've set boundaries with your SO, and also, how you've set boundaries with yourself in terms of checking your SO's computer, phone, etc.?

I have done everything in the past, including serious snooping. I always found what I was looking for - P or searches for other stuff.

I don't snoop now. My HB has a net filter installed that sends me reports, but I don't read them. I have them sent to a folder in my inbox that I don't see.

Why? Because I don't like snooping. I would hate it if he snooped on me, not because I have anything to hide, but because I think it is dehumanising. However, I do see its merits - particularly if he wont give you the truth and you want to see if he is still using you and lying to you.

The point I came to recently was this; If I have no trust in my husband at all, I want a divorce. This means, if I feel reason to snoop and like he might not be telling me the truth, that is enough for me to not be in this relationship. I don't need 'hard evidence' to make that decision.

For me this means that if I dont see him making efforts IN ALL ASPECTS OF HIS LIFE to stop P addiction, to recover, and to reassure me, then I want out. No amount of filtering would change that for me.

I think snooping is degrading to yourself. It puts you in the position of 'monitor' and I think that is harmful. But I do get why you want to because I have been there countless times.

If you feel as if your HB is not being truthful then there's a major problem with or without the net filter /checking and you need to decide if you are willing to accept that or not.

[FaithStrengthLove]

I have done everything in the past, including serious snooping. I always found what I was looking for - P or searches for other stuff.

I don't snoop now. My HB has a net filter installed that sends me reports, but I don't read them. I have them sent to a folder in my inbox that I don't see.

Why? Because I don't like snooping. I would hate it if he snooped on me, not because I have anything to hide, but because I think it is dehumanising. However, I do see its merits - particularly if he wont give you the truth and you want to see if he is still using you and lying to you.

Hi, Rosie. I like how vocal you are, but comparing him snooping to you snooping is not a valid comparison. You did not do anything to violate his trust, and you did not disrespect the relationship... So how is it the same? I will not compare me snooping to my PA when I am not the one with the problem, and if the PA has given the green light on the SO checking, there is nothing wrong with checking... But there does need to be some balance and moderation. I have only been dealing with this since January and I've been driving myself crazy. No more.

I think as the trust is rebuilt and as FragileEgo grows stronger again, the need or urge to "snoop" will taper off. Personally, I do not like the term snoop. It implies we are sneaking.

[fragileego]

I agree with both of you, Rosie and FSL. Rosie, I believe that snooping is dehumanizing, which is why I feel so awful about it. I don't believe it's my role to play Thought Police, and snooping makes me feel as though I'm somehow trying to control H's thoughts/behavior. I don't think it's my place to tell him to stop watching P; I think he should figure this out on his own, but he hasn't, so here I am.

I don't expect H to be perfect, and the fact that H has hurt me and betrayed my trust doesn't necessarily mean I should leave him right now (I don't believe this is what you meant). I absolutely agree that if there's no trust, then there isn't much point to being in a relationship, but if I were to somehow betray H's trust, I would hope he would be able to forgive me and give me another chance to make our relationship whole again. I guess I am just struggling with the question "When is enough enough?" At what point do I come to terms with the fact that H won't help me re-establish my trust?

I also agree with FSL. I haven't done anything to betray my H and to warrant him snooping on me at all, so I'm not sure the comparison is entirely fair.

But yes, I agree that overall, continued lies/betrayal about P is an indicator of something larger. I'm hoping that H's more recent efforts continue and that my trust is rebuilt. I have felt less of a need to snoop over the last week as I've felt better about H being vocal about wanting to stop P (and seeming to), but it's probably too early to tell whether this will be long-lasting.

[rosie]

Hi, Rosie. I like how vocal you are, but comparing him snooping to you snooping is not a valid comparison. You did not do anything to violate his trust, and you did not disrespect the relationship... So how is it the same?

I have been where you are - and thought like you do. But I have recently changed my mind. And this is because, as a PA - they live their life reactively, they lack healthy boundaries, and most people who live with PA's also lack their own healthy boundaries (including myself). I do not believe that "two wrongs make a right". I understand WHY you want to snoop. but I believe that it personally degrades your own sense of values to do so. I don't believe that my behaviour has anything to do with what someone else does to me, my goal in my life is to live according to MY values - not reactively, not "he hurt me so now I can snoop". I personally do not want to change how I do things based on any other person, and particularly my husband. I want to be a trustworthy integral person regardless of what he has done to me.

Furthermore, by snooping you are putting yourself in the place of Police Sargeant. How is this healthy to an equal, respectful loving relationship? Again, I get WHY you do it and why you want to (because I too have done it many times) but I have come to a different place recently, where I believe that the PA needs to do this from within. No amount of external circumstances will help him with this, it has to be a decision he makes from within and he needs to be doing it for the right reason. If my husband is avoiding porn because I might find it - that is NOT the right reason for him to be giving up porn (in my mind). I want him to give up porn because it devalues human beings, and it degrades our marriage... but most importantly, i want him to give up porn because he feels worthy of living an integral life. No amount of monitoring or me mothering him is going to acheive that - if anything, it is going to delay REAL recovery in my opinion.

Edited to add: Faith, i respect your opinions on this, and I accep that we disagree here. That's fine :) We all have to find our OWN way through this, and I have come to a different conclusion. I believe by you taking responsibility of monitoring him (whether its mutually agreeable or otherwise) I believe you are taking on ownership for his P addiction in a sense. I believe that when you are married to someone, you both need to be separate, independent entities who meet on shared goals, love, and life. I don't believe as a wife it is your job to take over the responsibility of this. I believe it is your husbands job to take on full ownership of his problem, and to get professional assistance (if necessary) or an outside person to be accountable to (again, if necessary) instead of burdening you with this task.

You have a lot of hurt to heal from, and I think your time should be spent healing yourself, instead of acting as monitor to him. I do understand that you need reassurance that he is not doing the wrong thing, but if you think about it, there is no guarantees anyway. There is nothing you can do to ensure he is not doing the wrong thing. You are not with him 24 hours per day, there is acting out that can be done within the mind with NO external evidence, there is acting out that can happen when you are not there. You can NEVER possibly know whether he is being honest or not, you just have to work on your own healing and not pin your reassurance on his computer habits - because his actual use of porn is only a small part of this whole mess - they are just one way that he acts inappropriate (probably).

I also think that by taking on a role of monitor, the PA is placed in a lower position (in terms of relationship power) and takes on a role as a child. I think this is negative for recovery where the responsibility and growth needs to be 100% on them not us.

[Hopeful]

Hi Fragileego,

I understand all of your feelings completely. I have to say though...I did not feel that reading the reports from Covenant Eyes was policing him. He put it there to show me he was committed to this and to try and earn my trust back.

I do not consider it snooping at all. We are trying to protect ourselves from it, that's all. My H has always had no problem with me looking at everything since the discovery date because he was committed to his recovery.

So, if you have to look...go ahead. When you keep looking and find nothing it starts you on a path of healing for yourself and in turn starts to earn his trust.

We have been on this journey for a year and I still read my reports and check if I feel the need to.

[rosie]

Hi Fragileego,

I understand all of your feelings completely. I have to say though...I did not feel that reading the reports from Covenant Eyes was policing him. He put it there to show me he was committed to this and to try and earn my trust back.

I do not consider it snooping at all. We are trying to protect ourselves from it, that's all. My H has always had no problem with me looking at everything since the discovery date because he was committed to his recovery.

So, if you have to look...go ahead. When you keep looking and find nothing it starts you on a path of healing for yourself and in turn starts to earn his trust.

We have been on this journey for a year and I still read my reports and check if I feel the need to.

Okay something just occurred to me. To me, snooping is rifling through computer files, sneakily checking phone installing key loggers without him knowing (all of which I have done and am ashamed of)... and being responsible for calling him out on bad behaviour - those things to me are stepping over the line.

But, if covenant eyes or whatever is being used, thats entirely different in my opinion - because CE is being the accountability and you are just observing it. If this is what you were referring to Faith, then I have got it totally wrong. When you said you feel guilty for snooping (or something like it) i assumed you were doing something else entirely.

[fragileego]

I have been where you are - and thought like you do. But I have recently changed my mind. And this is because, as a PA - they live their life reactively, they lack healthy boundaries, and most people who live with PA's also lack their own healthy boundaries (including myself). I do not believe that "two wrongs make a right". I understand WHY you want to snoop. but I believe that it personally degrades your own sense of values to do so. I don't believe that my behaviour has anything to do with what someone else does to me, my goal in my life is to live according to MY values - not reactively, not "he hurt me so now I can snoop". I personally do not want to change how I do things based on any other person, and particularly my husband. I want to be a trustworthy integral person regardless of what he has done to me.

Furthermore, by snooping you are putting yourself in the place of Police Sargeant. How is this healthy to an equal, respectful loving relationship? Again, I get WHY you do it and why you want to (because I too have done it many times) but I have come to a different place recently, where I believe that the PA needs to do this from within. No amount of external circumstances will help him with this, it has to be a decision he makes from within and he needs to be doing it for the right reason. If my husband is avoiding porn because I might find it - that is NOT the right reason for him to be giving up porn (in my mind). I want him to give up porn because it devalues human beings, and it degrades our marriage... but most importantly, i want him to give up porn because he feels worthy of living an integral life. No amount of monitoring or me mothering him is going to acheive that - if anything, it is going to delay REAL recovery in my opinion.

Edited to add: Faith, i respect your opinions on this, and I accep that we disagree here. That's fine :) We all have to find our OWN way through this, and I have come to a different conclusion. I believe by you taking responsibility of monitoring him (whether its mutually agreeable or otherwise) I believe you are taking on ownership for his P addiction in a sense. I believe that when you are married to someone, you both need to be separate, independent entities who meet on shared goals, love, and life. I don't believe as a wife it is your job to take over the responsibility of this. I believe it is your husbands job to take on full ownership of his problem, and to get professional assistance (if necessary) or an outside person to be accountable to (again, if necessary) instead of burdening you with this task.

You have a lot of hurt to heal from, and I think your time should be spent healing yourself, instead of acting as monitor to him. I do understand that you need reassurance that he is not doing the wrong thing, but if you think about it, there is no guarantees anyway. There is nothing you can do to ensure he is not doing the wrong thing. You are not with him 24 hours per day, there is acting out that can be done within the mind with NO external evidence, there is acting out that can happen when you are not there. You can NEVER possibly know whether he is being honest or not, you just have to work on your own healing and not pin your reassurance on his computer habits - because his actual use of porn is only a small part of this whole mess - they are just one way that he acts inappropriate (probably).

I also think that by taking on a role of monitor, the PA is placed in a lower position (in terms of relationship power) and takes on a role as a child. I think this is negative for recovery where the responsibility and growth needs to be 100% on them not us.

Yes, yes, I agree with so much of this. Out of curiosity, though, did you ask your husband to install the filter, or did he do it himself? I asked mine to install one this morning, and he seemed to agree. He's told me that I am "welcome" to check his phone and computer, but I don't want to do it anymore. After I was triggered this morning and asked H about the filter, he asked me to check his user history. I declined. I don't want to be a part of this game, but on the other hand, I'd like to know what I'm dealing with as part of my healing, as H hasn't been truthful to me in the past about P. If H isn't going to work on his PA, then I need to leave. That's it. I don't want to continue this morning ritual of H waking and me lying in bed wondering what he's doing. I'm through with it.

I don't know. It's a Catch-22. I think maybe the filter is a compromise, now that I do believe H is trying to change, not because of me or our marriage per se, but because he wants to change. Before I found out about his P use, he never realized he had a problem. Now he does, and he wants to stop. Maybe that's the difference.