What counts? ie, what should I be worried about

[stillandagain]

I am so paranoid

now I am questioning the women he looks at, at WalMart, at church, in my catalogs, female athletes in the tennis match or golf ot racecar or basketball tournament, actresses . . .

he could easily search an actresses name, see her clad in all sorts of "provacative" clothing (bathing suit)

do I/we/he even have a chance? especially when the feeling strikes, especially when a feeling doesn't strike but the impulse is there, especially when the unconsious need to "feel good" in that familiar way takes over

???

[TooSensitive]

StillandAgain, I hate to say this, but probably everyone and everything, unless he is in recovery. And even at that, it takes time for any change to start to take effect. We can’t see what they are doing 24/7; and we can’t control what they do 24/7, either. We can try to avoid triggers, and we can try to help them avoid triggers, when we are with them; but there is nothing we can do when we are not with them, and so, it becomes up to them to take on that responsibility. Hopefully, with recovery, they will do just that.

Triggers can be anyone walking down the street or at the store or anywhere in public for that matter; triggers can be on magazine covers, sales circulars, catalogs; triggers are all over the internet. Having a filter such as K9 can help. As far as the TV, I hold the p/w and have not only certain channels locked, but also, the ability to order pay-per-view movies. My h does not have internet nor a texting plan on his phone. And I have the ability to monitor the phone logs on-line, so if he does text, I can see to whom. If there has been any internet usage, I can see that too (though not the details of where he went, but he knows if I see any activity, I am going to question him on it). We are also getting into the habit of taping shows we want to watch and then playing them later, which gives us the ability to fast forward through the commercials (which are often triggering to my h). With movies we rent, I pick those. If I think there is anything triggering, then I won’t order it. Still, as careful as I try to be, it is not a foolproof system. There will always be triggers lurking around any given corner it seems, esp. in today’s world. All we can do is our best to minimize exposure to them, esp. when we are with our h’s. And learn how to manage ourselves, so that we can better manage those triggers when they hit. And hopefully, our h’s will also learn how to manage themselves, so that they can better manage the triggers too.

I was pretty much a mess in terms of triggers for the better part of 1-1/2 years. Triggers still do have the ability to negatively affect not only me, but also my h. But they are not as bad as they once were for the most part.

In the beginning, I felt the need to constantly watch and monitor my h to see what he was up to and just who he was checking out. But I found that it was exhausting and it was beating me down. So then, I needed to take a “break” from h’s SA. There were times when I would purposely get out of the house to be away from him; or I would refuse to go out in public with him. Whatever I needed to do for my own safety and sanity is what I ended up doing. Yes, there were times when I would return home quite anxious, not knowing what he may have been up to while I was out; or vice versa (me not knowing what he was up to while he was out). As my self-esteem increased, b/c I made a conscious effort to work on that, the triggers were not as intense for me; I learned how to stop comparing myself to them the way I had been. All I could do was let h know that if and when he was triggered, him allowing this to happen was not acceptable to me; I did my best to make it his responsibility to stop allowing himself to be triggered in the first place. If I knew he had been triggered, I could not keep using it against myself. I could not keep allowing the knowledge that he was attracted to another woman like that push me down. Sometimes I totally sidestepped it and the triggers did not have any affect on me at all – b/c I was detaching from everything to that point; other times, they bothered me, but only in the sense that h was hurting our relationship, though not so much me personally, once I got some healing for myself. The more h being triggered did not push me down, the less likely h was to even be triggered to begin with. That didn’t mean it never happened anymore; but it was at a much lower frequency. The triggers seemed to lose some of their appeal for my h, when he found they no longer had the same power over me. It was also a case of my being more alluring to h due to my restored self-esteem and confidence; there were times when it was me who had captured his attention and not some other woman. And I am just average, and now I need to lose a few pounds again; so it has nothing to do with how I look on the outside; it has more to do with what I exude from within.

Handling the triggers became easier for me, once I really began working on healing myself. I had to work on feeling better about myself, though I know that is no easy feat when we are being nearly constantly bombarded with triggers that make us feel bad about ourselves to begin with. I also had to work on making myself stronger. Not so that I could learn how to accept the triggers; but so that when the triggers were there, I was strong enough to withstand whatever storm they happened to bring with them.

As you go along, you will probably find yourself getting tuned in to your h’s triggers. You will start to figure out – which is both fortunate and unfortunate – which women will most likely trigger your h, and in which situations. I know I still at times pick the seat in the restaurant which will give h the least amount of opportunity to “scan”. If I can help him avoid triggers, that ultimately helps me in having to deal with the triggers too. It can be easier to avoid “virtual” triggers than it can be to avoid “real life” triggers. One can leave the room, change the channel, fast forward recorded material, set controls on the TV and the computer; but our options may be limited in real life without raising questions. I guess if it is that bad when you are out in public, you do have the option of leaving any place; but leaving for your own safety has to become more of a priority than what others around you might think. I know for me, I don’t really care what strangers might think; it is h who is more worried about that. I can remember shopping in stores several times, only to turn to h and say, “We have to leave – NOW”. So we leave. I don’t tell him until outside why (due to a trigger I just couldn’t handle in that moment). I can remember being seated at a table out, only to turn to h and say the same exact thing. Get the check, and quick, b/c we’re outta here. It got to the point where he knew if I said that, why I said that – it was nearly always due to triggers.

Please do what you need to do for your own sake, even if h doesn’t understand or is not in agreement; push for what you need in these situations. If that means literally and physically removing yourself, then do it. It is your right! I will say, it took me awhile, before I felt comfortable enough to start standing up for my own rights; but once I did, it became easier to do so over time. Hope what I wrote helps.

[stillandagain]

It seems like each hunch I get, every intuition, ideas and thoughts which now prompt a question about my PA H’s P just get deeper and deeper into the reality of his P world.

This time it was an online SI magazine question, about “Extra Mustard.” He admitted that he does indeed look at the pix there “for P.” HE defined the dynamic as P. Who needs a P magazine!

How can I block this “soft” and readily available P?
What else should I look for?
What questions should I ask?

So much for the “Baby, I HAVE told you everything!”
And yet, EVERY time I ask a specific question, there IS indeed more to tell.
Nothing is volunteered.
Too much self-protection and reflexive lying.

So, please tell me, how much can I expect is there?
And how can I help? Myself? Him? Us?

So, he “wasn’t looking at P on his office computer at his new job,” but often SI, and for P. Another lie. Where else was he looking at SI girls for P? in our bed?

I am getting a fuller picture of my PA H and this addiction. I think it’s the SELF-deception that scares me the most. My support is limited by his lying even to himself about what IS and ISN’T P, and where and when it was “okay.”

Please be honest with me: can and will he EVER be “free and clean?”
Will he EVER tell the whole truth, without me asking, let alone when I do?

[Amo]

My h begs for trust, even though he has it, because he thinks he doesn't.

I don't police him. If I did, I would go nutz. You have to find in you a place where you say, "I'm worth not having this stress."

My h thinks I do what you do. Look and look for women, that he is interested in, I know they are there. I knew about his P, I simply didn't care. I know I should, but my happiness doesn't involve him. I am happy to be around him and with him. But to have to police him, that isn't trust or love. And it will affect your happiness.

Now I know he did get rid of the P on friday, and we fought yesterday. I know it is because he wants something from me that I am not giving, and that is this attention.

YOU are giving him attention to his P, and it isn't positive attention.

I prefer giving positive attention, and ignoring the negative. He wants me to be negative. That takes time and energy from what I want to be happy about. I hope you understand. I hate fighting so I limited that to once a month, 12 arguments a year. Sometimes when i am lucky it gets less. Focus on the positive, you get more positive.

All I have to do is focus on my body image issues, and those are not his fault, I had them before I met H. P didn't help that.

[transitionalgrace]

Do you feel that you have problems with your body images? If so why? Is it because your h has issues with your body or are you not happy with your body? And if you're not happy with your body, how long have you felt this way? Before or after you met him?

Your personal image is more than just your physical attributes. You have a spirit and a soul and a brain. You have emotions, likes and dislikes, pleasures, emotions. All of these are a part of you and don't have anything to do with any "flaws" in our bodies. No one has a perfect body. Love yourself for who you are right now.bnana_dance

[JenMac]

How can I block this “soft” and readily available P?
What else should I look for?
What questions should I ask?

Hi StillandAgain,
I am sorry you are struggling with all of these swirling thoughts. I recognize the urgency with which you feel these worries. I have been there too.
What I guess I would say to you is that you can't control it. You can't block this for your H. He has to do it for himself. We can't be with them 24/7 and if we could we would not want to take on that role. Until your H comes to a place in his recovery where he can recognize and admit his thoughts and triggers, he won't truly understand. And by you taking it on for him, he will only be reacting to you and not learning what he needs to learn for himself.
What you can do though, is to set your boundaries and state your needs and expectations. Speak from your heart. Tell him what you need from him. Tell him how all of this affects you. Writing those thoughts and feelings down in letter form can have a powerful effect that the spoken word does not have.
Decide what it is you need SA. And learn to relay that message to your H as often as necessary.
In my experience it takes time for them to really know how this has effected not only you but him too. But by communicating our needs, we are setting the stage for healing, if not for him at the very least for ourselves.
Think of yourself first and be kind to you!!
Jenn

[Amo]

Do you feel that you have problems with your body images? If so why? Is it because your h has issues with your body or are you not happy with your body? And if you're not happy with your body, how long have you felt this way? Before or after you met him?

Your personal image is more than just your physical attributes. You have a spirit and a soul and a brain. You have emotions, likes and dislikes, pleasures, emotions. All of these are a part of you and don't have anything to do with any "flaws" in our bodies. No one has a perfect body. Love yourself for who you are right now.bnana_dance

It is complicated, I don't like my picture taken, never did. It is my problem and I am working on it. While H works on this, together we will heal together. Thank you for the encouraging words.

[stillandagain]

Me, too! Me, too! Hearing you articulate this parallel with your stories really helps.

I admitted myself to an30-day inpatient Addiction Recovery program in 1987. While I have not given in to this lifelong addiction particular “behaviors” (diet pills, laxatives, etc) I definitely have FALLEN in regard to body image. Its like I lost the battle – hopefully temporarily!

My PA H and I have started an almost-daily exercise program, are eating much more healthily, are working hard to “feed” our minds and souls with more positive things.

When we first met, I was in a good place! Physically fit and energetic. Hopeful about life’s possibilities following a very painful divorce the year prior. (ironically, my first H, too, was/is a PA) My body image has slowly but steadily deteriorated during the course of this current relationship. He is 13 years younger than me, his first wife even younger – she is nearly 20 years younger! Not accustomed to ruminating over my process of aging, and more characteristically affirming that it doesn’t bother me, I found myself increasingly bothered, and hence increasingly ‘suspicious’ of him, based on my “not being enough” or not being the female shape he married. As I “caught” him, my “not enough” feeling increased.

And, we enjoy food! In our professional life, comfort food became the choice, and food often accompanied our early development of intimacy. What a Catch-22! So I gained the “Freshman 10” every year for several years. Steadily. I felt it happen. I watched it happen. Nothing changed. Powerless stillandagain.

Anyway, I, too, have always hated having pictures taken of me. With my current PA H, I have had moments of liking it, of asking for it. The pictures I request reflect that security and confidence, in me, in us. I see the spark, the hope, the love.

Now when I look in the mirror, which is rare, most of the time I don’t recognize myself. I know it is part of MY addiction: distorted thinking! I need help, too.

You both hit MY nail on the head with your addition of “body image” to our thread here. Thank you so much for helping me articulate where I am with this, and the renewed problem it has indeed become - MY co-addiction was growing alongside his, and it’s a very dangerous pairing of addictions.

"If nothing changes, nothing changes." I need to find MY power to change ME. I need for ME to be my first goal.

[blindside]

Hey Stillandagain. I am a male and I am a PA. And I can tell you sport's illustrated (Swimsuit edition?) is far from innocent fare. Sometimes I get upset with our society for having eroded morally in such a freewheeling way. Even if you don't subscribe to the moral basis just logically, why have we decided it is ok for us to bombard ourselves with s*x using every avenue possible!?

Which brings me to my point. He is the one with the addiction. I am the one with the addiction. All of us who are PAs, we know the inner workings of our brains. If you even attempt to police his thoughts you will drive yourself to distraction and the stress will take its toll on your health in a very marked way.

Please be good to yourself. I try to think of this in terms of the age old instruction given at the beginning of an airplane flight during the safety orientation: "should the cabin pressure drop please secure your OWN mask before helping anyone else"

You're no good to him if you aren't good to yourself. I truly admire your commitment to your marriage. Good luck.

[TooSensitive]

StillandAgain, in the beginning, it helped me to learn about my h’s “habits”. He wasn’t fessing up, and so, I felt I had to do some of my own detective work. For me, it was part of the old adage, “knowledge is power”. Knowing at least something of some of h’s habits is what allowed me to hone in on my own gut and instincts, so that eventually, I did not need to know the details; I could tell by subtle cues, body language, tone, etc. whether or not he had been a/o; besides how he was treating me otherwise (though that is not a total indication, b/c some of them get good at distracting us from what is really going on by treating us well). Gaining some knowledge about his habits also allowed me to validate myself and in turn, it helped me learn how to trust myself again.

But when it goes on for too long, it becomes dangerous to us, emotionally-speaking; and it can also take its toll in physical ways, too, as Blindside has mentioned – b/c when we keep subjecting ourselves to that ongoing stress, it does take its toll; it did on me. I had become pretty physically ill, due to all the stress.

Blindside and Jenn and anyone else who has replied here to this effect are right – it is your h’s responsibility to police himself – his activities and his thoughts – not yours. B/c when we take on responsibility for that, we are taking on too much. Yes, we should tell them what we need; and we should point things out to them, when we know or when we see them happening, or even if we just “think” they are happening; but it is up to them to get themselves on track, and to prove to us and to show us they are doing so, just as it is up to us to get ourselves on track.

I think it is good to have some measure of a “need to know” and further, to expect them to tell us what we need to know; but it is also good to know when it is time to pull off that for our own wellbeing.

It is easier on us if they are “volunteering” information, but not all of them do. It is so much harder on us when they are remaining shutdown, tightlipped, and refusing to be honest. Either way, there comes a time when we have to either go on what they are telling us; or go on what our gut is telling us, which isn’t necessarily the same as what they are telling us. We have to use what we feel to be true in our hearts to guide us in knowing just what it is we need to do next, whether or not we have any proof of anything. As we progress in our own healing, proof starts to become irrelevant, b/c we begin to realize what the real score is.