Losing it.

[forgotten_not]

Have others experienced their PA frequently losing it & just blowing up in anger?

Is it normal to feel like your PA is looking for things to be angry about so as not to feel so bad themselves?

Is there anything that has worked to try to alter this behavior, other than talking about it over & over again?

[Alika]

I just asked OE to read your post, then asked if he recognizes anything. He replies "Oh yeah!". I assume OE and I are thinking about the same here.

The more I confronted him and demanded that he assumed responsibililty and changed around things, the more defensive he became (I am sure it came across to him as "nag, nag, nag"). OE ended up being in an almost permanent state of defensiveness and it took very little to set off anger. Anger towards me, I should add. OE is usually a very calm person, and usually it takes quite a bit to get him worked up. Lately though, he has suffered from an extremely short fuse and we went through almost a month where I began seriously considering whether he was verbally abusive cause he sure did a good imitation of being that. Worst, to me, has been, that when he is defensive, he still thinks and feels that he is as rational as can be, so addressing the anger and defensiveness while it happened, only made matters worse. I chose to back off instead, give him some space.

Being on the receiving end feels plain awful though, and it is unfair and uncalled for. I do not suggest for one second that you give into accusations of any kind. Instead stand firm, PA is not your problem, you did not do the lying and deceiving, nothing you could possibly have done ever, could elicit that kind of behavior in another person.

With OE, quite a few times I have ended a conversation (fight) either with a time-out, or stating "I am not participating in this" or "I am willing to talk with you when we can have a normal and respectful conversation", after which I have left the room to ensure the conversation didn't continue. It seemed that I did it dozens and dozens of times, though I'm sure it wasn't nearly that many, it just felt really bad while it was happening.

From the other point of view: discovering that you have a multitude of issues that are all out in the open, where you may not even be aware of half of them, facing that you have unintentionally hurt someone tremendously, trying to find out who you are and who you are not, figuring out what to do about it and what to do first, and how much work it actually involves, replacing believes, making amends, etc. It is a major burden to face all of a sudden. I am sure I would be just as defensive and short tempered if it were me facing it. I am not trying to defend the PA here, just to add a bit more nuances.

- Alika

[KingofHearts]

From the other point of view: discovering that you have a multitude of issues that are all out in the open, where you may not even be aware of half of them, facing that you have unintentionally hurt someone tremendously, trying to find out who you are and who you are not, figuring out what to do about it and what to do first, and how much work it actually involves, replacing believes, making amends, etc. It is a major burden to face all of a sudden. I am sure I would be just as defensive and short tempered if it were me facing it. I am not trying to defend the PA here, just to add a bit more nuances.

- Alika

That's really very insightful. Speaking for myself, I don't believe I've ever lost my temper with QoH at all, (I sincerely hope I haven't,) and my reaction where she is concerned to all this is to instead get very upset. I've done a lot of crying. That said, I know I've snapped at other people outside the situation.

Realising you're doing something really hurtful and indefensible and having to face up to the fact that you're not as, well, good a person as you thought you were... it's very hard to face. I think that it's actually natural for people to try and find a way to justify something like this into it not being entirely their fault. People don't like feeling bad about themselves. I suspect that when someone who is in the wrong, (about this or indeed anything,) gets snappy, it's probably down in large part to that.

Speaking for myself I feel that it's important for me to keep firmly in mind that I'm 100% in the wrong and to try and be a better person going forward.

[wifeofchewy]

My H seems to be angry a lot. He says no.. he's just frustrated. Frustrated with what though? He blows up over silly things. I'm not sure if it's so he doesn't feel so bad about himself or not. Honestly, I've never though of it that way. Sometimes I think he's just aggitated. He admitted to me that he would be short with me or the kids because it was like I was interrupting his thoughts or fantasies, or he was irritated because he couldn't watch P or M. Lately I feel like he blows up because he's been trying to do better (6 months sober) and we're STILL dealing with the same issues from before. He feels like we are still at square one and he's never going to hear the end of it. I get that, but he has to understand that this doesn't just go away for us SO's. It's like I'm not allowed to have bad days. I feel like he doesn't have the right to be angry at me for my bad days. No one wins.

Have others experienced their PA frequently losing it & just blowing up in anger?

Is it normal to feel like your PA is looking for things to be angry about so as not to feel so bad themselves?

Is there anything that has worked to try to alter this behavior, other than talking about it over & over again?

[Life-lies-trust]

For DG it was an issue with venting anger that is tied to the addiction and abuse. Not logical but to him rational.

[maggie]

THANK YOU !!!! Forgotten not & Alika....

I desperately needed to read these posts. My H, who is also, usually mild tempered, has been exploding at me when I ask a question or make a comment about it (P)

It seems that he feels he has suffered enough, endured enough humiliation and shame and now wants it buried.

I wish I could ban it from my mind & heart. But, I have these unpredictable swells of pain and anger, even in the middle doing productive and enjoyable activities. I feel like a PA , in the sense that, something will ' trigger ' my emotions and thoughts over his PA. The environment is full of triggers for SOs too.

I will see a magazine I'd like to buy, and then put it back because some of its photos may trigger him. I've learned to channel surf at lightening speed, to avoid him being triggered by the sexy commercials.

Off topic.. sorry.

His anger and knee jerk denials are ' out of character '
He responds quickly and with instant anger when I mention P or what happened to us.

I think you're right, Alika, it is the pain they are in and having all of this out in the open, that sets them on edge emotionally. Makes it difficult to talk about it at all, though, because he gets so angry.

[Life-lies-trust]

I will see a magazine I'd like to buy, and then put it back because some of its photos may trigger him. I've learned to channel surf at lightening speed, to avoid him being triggered by the sexy commercials.

I found that for me to move forward that he has to take action and I can not sanitize the world for him. He choose PA to handle abuse by parents. I did not choose this and did not spend my time as a PA. He choose this and the only way to be in this society is that he has to monitor his actions. If he refused to handle his actions and I have to take control to sanitize the world is not an acceptable situation. This is just what I have been trying to keep in mind on anything.

[OpenEyes]

Losing it. Great Title.

I am a PA, going through what most of the PA's are going through and I Hope I can give just a bit of insight here. But, every PA is different, just as each person is different. But we do have some things in common. Stating that, I hope to give soem ideas on this.....

There have been some threads on the mental conditions of addiction, different chemicals in the brain, like dopamine, seratonin, and so on. A PA will go through actual chemical withdraw in his brain. What happens to addicts who quit cold turkey? They get some very short fuses. That is one aspect of it.

Another is perspective. From the PA's view, he is making huge efforts, trying to change habits, thinking patterns, being introspective even when it scares the hell out of him, relearning to feel emotions, facing fears, and more. Most of these efforts are internal. We cannot present them on a platter and say "here is my progress". When our progress id doubted, we get frustrated. And before you say it, oh yes, I know, we did the lying, we broke the trust, so how the heck could we get angry when we are not trusted on our progress.... And at the same time, the frustration still exists. The doubt still hurts and the addiction monster still lurks, ready to pounce. We get hurt, we run, or get angry to make the hurting party back off. It is isolation that we seek, under the addiction monsters guidence.

Also, from what I have gathered, I am not the only PA who is emotionally immature. It may be a big part of the developement of PA, being emotionally stuck at an early age. As such, think of how kids react when they are pushed, and frustrated, they lash out. We Pa's are not much better, if any better.

Also, we are new to feeling bad. As I can read in most of the PA journals, most have a degree of "zoning out" and becoming numb when stressed or feeling bad. Part of our recovery and advancement is actually feeling feelings. In short, think of a new born baby chick, as it tries to stand, how wobbly it is. It falls over, and may even fall out of the nest. PA's are like that when it comes to feeling bad. We are wobbly, let us get some time under us, our legs (emotional responces) will get better.

Thes are just some of the reasons many PA's (including myself) would get angry / defensive over the littlest things. I hope I have addressed the topic correctly, and again, every PA is different, but I think there are similarities too.

[maggie]

Open Eyes,

Your post was moving. Whenever I get depressed or angry over this affliction and want to just walk away from all of the dirty mess, I read a PA's perspective and again see the human side and the PA's hurt as well.

I do feel bad for my H, he was a good person. I hold him responsible for what he got involved in, but also feel that the P industry and the females who work at enticing men into P...are really the source of this evil.

When you explained the emotional immaturity of PAs, responding like little kids when accused or reprimanded, it made me realize how true this explanation is.

Little boys are probably trapped forever emotionally, since they are told from day one, to hold in their fears and tears, and act like a man. NOT GOOD. I can't imagine how difficult that is for the little guys, being told not to cry and only girls cry. It definitely must be a large part of men not facing their emotions or expressing their emotions as adults.

And yes, as you explained, this situation is forcing men to examine their emotions and feelings, leaving them vulnerable and probably very defensive. That would explain my H's instant anger when I mention anything about the ' mess.'

I don't want to keep him in a prison of shame, yet, this was just too much, too invasive in our marriage and in our lives, to just end. It is always present, like the proverbial big white elephant in the room.

We are at the 7 month stage. I have found that the fog of P, not only blinds the men, but has clouded my perceptions of many things in our lives, while he was using. I saw a happy, easy going man, turn into a quiet, non communicative, agitated person. He stayed upstairs in his private office most of the day, and then returned to it by 8 pm every night. Not talking or interacting with any of his family.

So as he enters the light of day and rejoins the world and our family, we all have some major adjusting to do.

Sorry I rambled. I wanted to thank you for your insightful post.