Gut Feelings

[Miki]

Something is not right. My deepest fear is that my PA will act out in real life the behavior he is viewing as he uses P. I am afraid that my deepest fear is realized. I've asked him and he denies it, but his eyes were shifting back and forth and his response was , well, it was just odd.

I do not want to be paranoid or obsessive about his behavior, but I want to know the truth and am unsure how far I want to go in pursuing it. I don't want to throw my relationship away on a hunch.

But there is definitely smoke, and where there is smoke, there is fire. Is it time to give up? I'd rather make my decision with more information, but there is no indication that I will ever get it.

[Daniel]

Miki,

In the end the decisions are yours to make.

"Gut instinct" or intuition, 6th sense, etc., whatever you want to call it... It's a very powerful thing.

From my Christian perspective I would go so far as to say it is (not always but many times) God speaking to us in our minds.

And of course it could be sheer paranoia.

But, if there's a context for the paranoia, then I doubt it's being paranoid for paranoid's sake.

In other words the hunch is probably very real.

Just my take.

May the decision be easy.

Daniel

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

miki-

I say the gut feeling is right.

You said,
"I don't want to throw my relationship away on a hunch."

I have a few thoughts.
1. Even if he has done what you think he has, it is not necessarily a deal breaker. I know couples have survived this type of thing. Its just a thought.

2. If you do decide to end your relationship, and I am not advocating one way or the other, I think the words used to describe it are important. If this is your deal breaker, and you end your relationship, I think you are putting blame on yourself by saying you would "throw it away". If this is your deal breaker, and you have to make such a hard decision, it is not a decision made in a vacuum. You are not the one throwing anything away. I hope it makes sense. Words are important.

I hope things go better for you. This is a hard thing to wrestle with. Its a good idea to get an STD work up if you have any doubts. Your safety is a priority.

[Crisodian]

As an SO, I'd go with your gut feelings. My "gut" usually is right. I've learned that the hard way.

But that being said, I agree with WoNLM and Daniel. Making the decision as to what is right for you, as hard as it may be, is yours to make.

Find a path to peace,
~C~

[debv]

If this is your deal breaker, and you end your relationship, I think you are putting blame on yourself by saying you would "throw it away". If this is your deal breaker, and you have to make such a hard decision, it is not a decision made in a vacuum. You are not the one throwing anything away. I hope it makes sense. Words are important.

I've been thinking a lot about this too, both the semantics and the reality of why the relationship might end, if it does. I've come to the realization that if I cannot or will not recover from this, I'm not the one who would be throwing away our relationship. My hubby would be the one who threw away our relationship through his 14 years of P/MB addiction.

Like the others, I'll stress that only you can decide what to do with your relationship. But do realize that if your relationship ends as a result of your husband's behavior, it is not your fault, and it is not you who threw away the relationship.

[Miki]

Thank you all for your words of wisdom.

In speaking with him again, I am still unsure and in protection mode. He says he feels confident in discussing this with me because he has nothing to feel guilty about. All I have to go on is something someone else said and the fact that I still just "don't feel good about it".

Nevertheless, he states that since I doubted him yesterday he is set into a deep depression. This is not a healthy place for either of us to be. My gut feeling is deeply rooted in a belief that all people with addiction- especially SA- have gotten really good at lying and hiding their secrets. This belief is irrational. Not all people with addiction are liars and some make amends. In fact, I know quite a few success stories.

I also recognize that I feel that if he slips or acts out, it is somehow my job to punish him (once again irrational, not my job). I often forget about the natural consequence of his own struggle with this problem. Where is the balance between boundaries, support, and the reality check that I need to go get a full STD workup?

Perhaps this discussion may be better off in the thread, "how do they make it up to us?" - but my question is "how will I ever be able to trust him again?"

If I can't ever learn to trust him, or myself, then it is a no brainer that the relationship should probably end. One more relationship gone, one more in a string of my relationships that have failed. He may be playing a role in this one, but the common denominator in all of my failed relationships is me and my codependency.

I know this sounds like I'm feeling sorry for myself, but I can't deny the voice deep down that keeps screaming, "WHY ME"?

[debv]

Nevertheless, he states that since I doubted him yesterday he is set into a deep depression. This is not a healthy place for either of us to be.

This is not your fault. Do not let him guilt you into feeling or acting differently because of his depression. If you doubt him, doubt him. He needs to deal with the ramifications of having lied to you through the course of his PA, and this is one of them. If he needs treatment for his depression, encourage him to seek it out. But don't pull your punches based on feeling guilty about making him feel depressed.

My gut feeling is deeply rooted in a belief that all people with addiction- especially SA- have gotten really good at lying and hiding their secrets. This belief is irrational. Not all people with addiction are liars and some make amends. In fact, I know quite a few success stories.

Three comments here. First, I assume he hid his PA from you during the course of active PA, like most or all of our husbands and significant others did. So yes, I would certainly say that PAs are very good at lying and secret keeping, and this is not an irrational belief.

Second, being a liar does not preclude recovery. It involves changing their ways, but they can stop being liars and recover. That doesn't mean that we need to or can immediately trust them, however. One of the biggest issues DW and I face is that I cannot bring myself to trust nearly anything he tells me. He's going to have to earn my trust, but that's not going to be easy after 14 years of being lied to.

Third, please share the success stories you know about. I haven't seen many success stories on the internet, all I see are women struggling with men who relapse over and over again. Do men really turn it around without relapses, and can couples live a normal life after PA? Or will we always have to dodge Victoria's Secret, the beach, the art museum, etc., to avoid triggers, and will I have to suffer through multiple relapses, or can he really quit once and for all?

I also recognize that I feel that if he slips or acts out, it is somehow my job to punish him (once again irrational, not my job). I often forget about the natural consequence of his own struggle with this problem. Where is the balance between boundaries, support, and the reality check that I need to go get a full STD workup?

Perhaps this discussion may be better off in the thread, "how do they make it up to us?" - but my question is "how will I ever be able to trust him again?"

If I can't ever learn to trust him, or myself, then it is a no brainer that the relationship should probably end. One more relationship gone, one more in a string of my relationships that have failed. He may be playing a role in this one, but the common denominator in all of my failed relationships is me and my codependency.

I know this sounds like I'm feeling sorry for myself, but I can't deny the voice deep down that keeps screaming, "WHY ME"?[/quote]

[Crisodian]

Third, please share the success stories you know about. I haven't seen many success stories on the internet, all I see are women struggling with men who relapse over and over again. Do men really turn it around without relapses, and can couples live a normal life after PA? Or will we always have to dodge Victoria's Secret, the beach, the art museum, etc., to avoid triggers, and will I have to suffer through multiple relapses, or can he really quit once and for all?

So far, my H has not relapsed. And we do live a fairly normal life as a "couple". Now, that being said, that does not mean we do not struggle. We had another "come clean" night last night. What I can say is that he has been clean since I drew the line in the sand over 2 months ago. I verified that last night. But, I can also say I never had a full grasp of how deep his addiction truly went, until last night.

Has he quit once and for all? I don't know. I can't say. I want to believe that yes, this is over with. I know relapses happen, and I would be naive to believe one is not possible. But AG has put a lot of good resources in place for himself to avoid the triggers and urges that drew him into the secret world of PA. I think he is on the right path to heal and avoid tripping himself up in the future.

But that's our experience. Every PA is different. Everyone's struggle is different. There is no easy answer for what a PA and SO will go through during this journey.

Find a path to peace,
~C~

[mcp]

I too have been in more than one addictive based relationships. One thing I have learned from alanon is that I seek that type out. I thought I outsmarted myself by forming a relationship with a non drinker. Yet, he is a PA. The similarities are staggering. I like to say, "sometimes it's the picker." My guess is that either we deal with what we have, see if they are serviceable.
If not, we must service ourselves so as to not fall into the trap again. Either way, we gotta work on us. Can't save people from themselves, we can only save ourselves.

[Pandora's Hope]

Well said, mcp. I, too, have an apparent radar for an addict, so I know exactly what you're talking about. On the other hand, the coolest people I've ever known have ALL been recovering addicts or their SO's. As you've so wisely said, we have to work on ourselves- that's the only person we really have any control over, anyway!

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've sat down to look at this site with a big ol' load of hurt, self-pity, anger, negativity- and started to write a response that, by the time I'm satisfied with it and actually post it, has made me think things through until I realize I have to focus on myself. That's one of the beauties of this site- we fail forward together.

The best part of this site is you are guaranteed to find someone with whom you share a common thread of experience. There is no shame here, and I mean that in the best possible way. No matter what you admit here, someone else has seen it, done it, or thought it- and there's a real peace and freedom in that knowledge.

We may feel we have to hide this part of our lives from our "real world" friends- but here, we have the freedom to be completely open, honest, and transparent- and that's a real gift.