Does anyone else struggle with normal?

[emptied]

I've bee looking at this site for the last few months. I've sobbed my heart out as I've read other people's posts and realised that I'm not on my own and that other people do share the same feelings and difficulties. So today I've finally decided to post something.

The strange thing is that I'm over the most traumatic part of my experience now... so I won't bore anyone with the details and I'll try and keep it short because I just want to know how other people cope.

I think my husband is PA and/or SA but hopefully now sober.

Its only been for the last couple of months but he's now trying really hard. I'm fairly certain he's not been viewing P and his extra marital affairs are over. His attitude towards me is 10 times better than it has been in the last couple of years and I know he's trying to rebuild our relationship.

The trouble is, although I love him I still can't let myself feel close to him. Because of the amount of hurt I've lived through due to his behaviour I've learned to control my emotions and detach myself from the effects of his actions so well that now things are improving I still don't feel like I think I should. I'm a lot happier and I'm really really glad about the change in him. It's a huge relief in some ways but I still can't let go of the nagging doubts.

Has anybody been in a similar situation? How do you get through it? I can't seem to stop myself wondering how long the good will last and when its all going to go wrong again. I've lost the safe and secure feeling I once had and realised that it was never based on reality anyway because throughout our marriage there's been too much deceit and lying.

I'm guessing I just need to be patient and that time will help to heal, that eventually the good times will have lasted longer than the bad and the memories will dim. That's what I'm hoping anyway. Its just that sometimes i feel like a part of me has died and I might never get it back... I'm sure I'm a much harder person than I used to be and I hate that about myself.

I would love to be able to plan for the future with hope and a degree of certainty or just without stopping to think about it too much. I want to let my guard down again but am terrified to do it.

If this makes sense and anyone else out there has survived similar feelings please let me know.

Thanks very much.

[hope phul]

Did you write this out of my brain? It was as if my brain logged on here last night and posted under your name.

It's a huge relief in some ways but I still can't let go of the nagging doubts.
Has anybody been in a similar situation? How do you get through it? I can't seem to stop myself wondering how long the good will last and when its all going to go wrong again. I've lost the safe and secure feeling I once had and realised that it was never based on reality anyway because throughout our marriage there's been too much deceit and lying.

I also wonder how long this good will last. My husband is doing great, he has been completely free of P & MB for 112 days now but I still am waiting for him to go back to it. I want back my safety and security. I want back the part of me that seems to have died with all of this stuff.

If this makes sense and anyone else out there has survived similar feelings please let me know.

I can't say I have survived this but I can say I feel very similiar to you and AM surviving day to day but can't say I have survived.

I know that this isn't much help except to say you are not alone and what you feel seems to very similar to me.

Hugs,
C

[emptied]

Thanks so much for the reply. It makes me feel better just to know that I'm not the only one and that other people are struggling through the same mess of emotions.

I can begin to wonder about my own sanity at times. Its so much harder because its not a subject that I can talk about with friends or family. It helps just to put things in words and explain how I'm feeling and even more when somebody understands and sympathises.

Hope you and your hubby keep going strong. You truly have my sympathy.

Surely it must get easier eventually!

[sybil]

yup, i feel the same way emptied and hope phul. that's one of the reasons i appreciate this site so much. so many of you put into words how i have been feeling. it really helps to clarify things also. there are times, lots of times, i'm feeling uneasy and annoyed but not exactly sure why. the P of course, but more than that. I also feel like i lost a life i had in a sense. but like you said, it really wasn't reality. who knows, maybe in the end our relationships with our husbands/bf will end up even stronger than before, even more loving, even more passionate.
I can hope can't I? what's missing?....even more trusting. i doubt it, but who knows.
i also agree that it is so nice to be able to come here and talk about these oh so personal things to someone who understands. even if you do have a close friend or relative who you can talk to, unless they've also been through this, they reallly can't relate. well, time to get back to the "rollercoaster" ride we never asked to be put on. oh well. we love them for better or worse right. sybil=((

[Toria]

Hi,

I see a pattern emerging! Yep, I think all of us OHs feel like that.

Firstly, when he was looking at porn I knew what was happening and when. All I had to do was click that pesky 'history' button and there it was, all the evidence I needed. Now there is no evidence, has it always been empty or has it been deleted? If I spent the evening out with friends I'd know 100% that he would have been looking at porn whilst I'd been gone, now, I just don't know. Even though now there is a chance that he hasn't, I'll always be uncertain and that kills me.

Secondly, (HopePhul helped me out with this one). Now he has quit porn, he has more energy, his 'dirty little secret' is out in the open, his burden has been lifted and he feels great. Now we are the ones carrying the 'dirty little secret', but we have no-one to pass it on to. "My boyfriend presfers masturbating to porn than spending time with me" isn't the kind of thing you confide toyour Mum, or best friend or next door neighbour.

Lastly, although I completely understand that recovery from PA is really difficult for them I think that it is a different kind of process. For them it is changing a learnt behaviour - taking a behaviour to a stimulus and changing it. Re-learning what to do when you're alone, when a pop-up appears and when you're feeling horny. It's all to do with Pavlov's theory of behaviour conditioning (takes me back to my A-level psychology lessons) but if I try to put it this way:

Stimulus: Being in the house alone.
Old behaviour: Go onto the PC and look for porn.
New behaviour: Put on a DVD, call your friends, go out for a bike ride...etc

To me, that is in its essence a relatively simple (but by no means easy) process.

For us, it's about rebuilding self-esteem, trusting somebody who has broken your heart and actually believing that you are worth something and maybe, actually attractive. I think that road to recovery is going to be far more complicated.

Thank Goodness we're in the right place >:D<

And all you men reading this, I think you're doing a great job and I hope you don't think I'm implying that you've got it easy!

[Rowlf]

Just want to chime in on Toria's post.
"For them it is changing a learnt behaviour - taking a behaviour to a stimulus and changing it."

I think for the PA there are at least 2 levels:

1. Changing behaviour cues just as you are outlining
2. Finding out what is triggering us and learning to deal with this in a different way.

If PA is just a behaviour pattern then hopefully a relatively simple intervention with some effective therapy like CBT and a bit of willpower will see the person right. Job done, back to normal...

If, as I believe it is for many of us here, it a real addiction then our conscious mind doesn't have total control! As an addict I don't want to do this stuff. All the promises to myself, and yet some part of me does want the release, the control and the comfort that this form of self-medication gave me.

For me the change is at a deeper level than just behavioural. I have to change the whole way I relate to life and other people. It's changing my identity from total self-reliance to allowing higher power and therefore others in. I think this is BIG work and takes time. There is a level of behavioural change required of course as well, I'm not denying this, just saying it's not the only thing for addiction.

On a personal note, having for years spoken about intimacy and believing I knew what I was talking about I now find that it's been control that I've been more interested in! And learning to let someone into this space of the real me, which holds a sensitive and shameful space is very new. I'm not good at it yet. But it is more real, and holds a greater promise for real intimacy with other people. Hopefully for me a partner at some stage in the future.

And of course if the PA in a relationships is renegotiating their understanding of themselves and 'real' intimacy their SO is going to experience all the boundaries changing as well - that's hard. But hopefully holds out a promise of something more real coming through in the future.

At it's best maybe this experience can become a gift - To be able to let our defenses down voluntarily together, to really see the other, and to be really seen ourselves as we actually are - pains, joys, shameful and delighted-in parts all together - that seems to me to a prize worth making the journey for. Hope we all get there!

[AirKeep]

It's not easy on anyones part by all means. I think I can speak for most PA's, that ya, we don't and can't realize what we have caused, and at best we can try to be supportive and try to empathize.

I was going to post a question earlier, of 'who has it tougher' in a sense, just to sum up ideas from everyone. I don't think they can really be compared, as they are two totally different situations. Just like I think it took some time for society to realize P is a problem, and start to implement things for recovery, the innocent victims of that (SO's, families), have been even further behind and the knowledge that they need help also is just coming around.

I completely understand that recovery from PA is really difficult for them I think that it is a different kind of process. For them it is changing a learnt behaviour - taking a behaviour to a stimulus and changing it.
.....
To me, that is in its essence a relatively simple (but by no means easy) process.

It is about changing behaviours, but also realizing, those are just triggers. If it was as simple of just getting out of the house and the problem is solved, then it would be easy. The problem being though, is what does sitting in the house alone, stress, rejection all trigger. It is something deeper, that just getting out of the house doesn't necessarily solve. It does keep you busy, and changing learned patterns and behaviours is part of it, but I could maybe say that one can recover, and never get out of the house if they fix the real core issue. Changing what is on the inside, is much harder, similar to fixing a self-esteem issue for an SO, and isn't that one of the problems anyway, the PA's self-esteem. Same problem for both then.

For us, it's about rebuilding self-esteem, trusting somebody who has broken your heart and actually believing that you are worth something and maybe, actually attractive. I think that road to recovery is going to be far more complicated.

I can't imagine what it feels like. You made me think about another part, ya, you never had to question before, now you constantly do. That can't be easy to live with. Realize as well, that one of the reasons a PA is using P, is much of these same issues. Something, generally in the past (not trusting an abuser, parent, no self-esteem, loner, etc.), helped start this behaviour and drive inner demons, and they have to be rooted out.

A few things the PA has to live with as well. They do have to do their own recovery, easy or not, behaviour or not. PA's then also live with knowing they have broken trust, killed someones self-esteem. Changing behaviour can somewhat help rebuild those, but in part as well, they've done something they can't fix. That is tough to live with. Can I change behaviours? Ya. Can I fix my own self-esteem issues and become a better person? Ya. Can I bring innocence back, can I fully get my SO's trust back, can I ever really make it up to her, take it away, really help her believe it isn't about her, make her feel beautiful, special, wanted, and in a sense, for a PA, trust that they ever really have been forgiven and that they are loved as much as they were before. Some of those may come back, some things may get better, some may not. Besides the addiction, that's the hell a PA has to live with as well. Being a good man, but living with when you become bluntly honest, that in reality you have a side that lies, cheats, hides, doesn't open up, gets angry, and turns and hurts the one they really love the most.

I don't mean to sound like a SO has it easy as well, or even that a PA has an equally or harder route. It is different for each situation. Some PA's easily change, others don't. Some SO's change and rebuild things more quickly and easily than others. It is very complicated and personal. I know my SO would have wanted us to work, but I know I killed her self-esteem so bad, that she can't be around me, the pain is too much, and living with someone that she couldn't trust and love as she once did, she can't. She wants that back, and can only 'get that back', with someone else. I'm sorry you and others have to go through this, you didn't choose it, you didn't ask for it, and you don't deserve it.

Sorry, the thread started as a question for help for a SO. Sorry to kind of hijack it and give what a PA goes through as well. Maybe the response is better left to a thread for PA's of 'what do we struggle with'. I know the 'innocence' has been shattered for SO's, and out of nothing they have done. It doesn't seem fair, it doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem to go away. An experience for growth? Ya, but it would have been nice had there been another way.

I'm not an SO, and I don't have enough history in recovery to really say it goes away, or what really works to make it go away. I guess I can only say trying, and hope.

[Abbie]

Just to add to the discussion, I think that 'normal' happens in stages (as is written in 100s of posts on here!). For somebody like me, 'normal' takes a while to achieve, and what is normal anyway?

For me to go back to any sort of normal in any kind of relationship depends on how much damage has been done to that particular relationship. If my husband had decided to give up the P from the first time I caught him I think getting back to normality would have been quicker to achieve. However, I'm obviously speculating here!

[Toria]

Hi everyone.

Firstly, I want to apologise if I insulted any of you. I really, reaaaaally didn't want to make it into a "x has it harder than x" argument and I'm really sorry if anyone thought that I was trying to say that PA just need to 'snap out of it'. I tried to make it clear that wasn't my intention but sorry if anyone felt like that is was I thought. I am in no way an expert on psychology or behavioral therapy so please don't think that I was preaching about how to solve a very complicated situation.

I think what I was trying to say is: that's how I feel he is getting over his PA. For me, after only a few weeks without the P, I see a complete change in him. He has taken up the hobbies that he set aside for time alone with P, his whole behaviour has changed and he knows what things to do when he may have turned to P in the past. When I see that he is making such strong progress, in a way I feel jealous - he knows what he has to do and he is doing it. But for me, I don't even know if I still want to be here, what to do next, how to cope with every day challenges.

I think that's what I was trying to say about him having a more simple recovery than me. He has an action plan, whereas I feel like I'm in the middle of a fog. He's getting over it and I'm still in denial!

:-< Sorry again, reading the PA journals has really helped me get this far and I feel awful that you may think that I was patronising or dismissing the difficulty in recovering from any addictions.

[AirKeep]

Hey Toria, I thought it was a good post, anything that someone has questions on or wants to discuss is always helpful. Sorry as well if mine came across as kind of 'defending' PA's. I know I learn everyday, more about myself, and more about the damage and struggle for SO's. I forgot to comment on one of the important parts you mentioned, and reitterated in this last post.

For a PA, even with the struggle to now overcome this and live with the damage, yes, there is very much the mindset of 'ok, it's out, we can work on it, what's the problem?' In a way, there are hopefully finishing up one part of their journey, while starting a new one, and the SO is just starting. The PA has struggled for some time, and probably the SO with the side effects in a lot of cases, but now the PA is kind of now able to wrap up their issues, while the SO's world is suddenly rocked.

So, the PA's reaction of it's out and ok now (in a sense), isn't taken very well by the SO of what do you mean it's ok? Does the PA want to sweep it under the rug, not talk about it, and get it out of the way, sort of, and that's not to mean they don't understand it will take time and isn't that simple. It's understandable that it can come across as this is no big deal. For the PA, as they've been in delusion and denial for so long, it will also take time to realize the hurt and pain caused, and the journey the SO must now go through. The timing of different events and where each person is at, don't necessarily match up too well, which can thus cause even more stress, trial and pressures.

It probably is easier to change a behaviour, than overcome betrayal. Behaviour one has a choice in, and while an SO's image of themself is also a choice, I'm sure it is grueling and hard, especially with who has caused the pain.

I understand the jealousy as well. In my own pity party, I've gotten about 2 sentances of understanding from my SO about my problem. Everything else was condemnation and all about 'her'. That is understandable, but I think we've all come to learn that healing really starts to occur when both sides are understood and seen. I felt jealous as well when I was still struggling with this and the consequences of it, and my SO is out just doing whatever acting like she was happy and over us, and had so quickly moved on. All assumptions though.

I can't imagine the strength it must take, for an SO to be lost in their journey at times, and then somewhat be expected to say to a PA, good job, I'm glad you're recovering and doing better (while you're completely torn up inside). That is certainly not an easy road.

Please don't feel sorry for expressing what you feel. Unfortunately, that's one of the problems that got most of us into this situation.