hi from an SO

[dottedlines]

I'm not certain if my H is a full-blown PA. it seems there are gray areas in this regard -- a scale, if you will. My hunch is he sits on a place in the scale where it could tilt toward a full-blown addiction/problem if either of us get too lax.

I recognize this is not my problem--that I'm not the issue. But I believe how I talk about this with him and support in specific ways can go a long way toward recovery and a better relationship.

My H & I were friends--online--first. I was very young.Our initial meeting was in an online chat place that should have been, in itself, a red flag to me. But when you're a teenager, you don't think of these things.

8 years later, we started to date in a long distance relationship. I saw in him a very good & kind heart. I still see that heart today. Eventually we moved to be together.

When that happened, I was on his computer one day, right before the move. I'd been doing my own innocent surfing on it, then became aware of issues. Chatrooms, p, many online type relationships/interactions. It devastated me. I was 24.

About 3 years after that initial discovery, there was a repeated discovery of him in an online chat type place. His excuse at the time was he was trying to possibly design some avatars for people there. "research." Yeah, right.

2 years after that the roof blew off the house.

I saw him on chats again. And up late, reading sx related stories. (When I went to bed early, he was horny, he said, and so he used that.)

A *lot* of P. This was approximately 4 years ago. It was a difficult time in our relationship prior to discovering this--I had been distant and frankly, cynical and crappy all around to him for several months. He had left his job 8 months prior and been sitting around the house doing nothing. I let resentment about this build. It doesn't excuse his choices at that time, but context is relevant.

Upon this discovery, I was older, wiser, and livid. We talked it through for a couple days. I asked to put a keylogger on the machine, with his consent. He consented immediately. He said to me, point blank "If keeping you meant we had to throw all our computers out the window today, I'd do it in a heartbeat."

He's never been defensive, offensive, blamed me. He has also not been fully transparent, but I've read enough now to know he may not even know what he had to be transparent about--forgotten things.

the monitoring program was a godsend. It give me room to trust. It gave him pause. And since that time, he worked very hard on our relationship after. Compliments me frequently. Lots of physical affection (hugs, etc). generally, our marriage is strong. We are both home together all day long. (relevant because it allows further accountability).

Our sx life has always been crappy from day one. In short, I'm almost always the initiator. When we do initiate, there isn't connection. He closes his eyes, lays back, and basically I 'do the work." I can count on one hand the number of times he's physically initiated. However, to his credit, he's attempted vocal initiation for the past 4 years. Things like "maybe we can schedule an 'appointment' (heehee) this weekend." But physical, in-the-moment initiation is rare.

Several months ago he got an Android tablet. And that is when the P came back. Approximately 30 videos saved on it. Not sure for how long he's been keeping them. When I 'confronted' I tried to do it with as much grace & compassion as I could muster. This was approximately 3 weeks ago.

I said to him "I want you to have peace and happiness. and if P brings you peace and happiness, so be it, but it doesn't bring it for me." At that point, he interrupted to slowly, carefully, tell me what was 'going on.'

He was in tears and said he was struggling with ED. (He's 36, and overweight). And he felt a lot of shame about that--that he couldn't be 'fully man' for me. He was viewing the videos to see if they would help, and even they didn't help, he said. He said not even looking at women in the mall 'triggers' any response for him.

I know my H well enough to know it wasn't an act. He also mentioned he couldn't talk with me about it because it feels like a shameful, embarrassing thing to bring up to a wife.

I emailed him a brief letter--not about my feelings about P, but citing 2 research studies on its effects on male functionality as well as a video, and how it's a common assumption that one can 'treat' ED by viewing more, but it's actually causing more issues.

I also thanked him for removing the videos, asked he now leave the android always out in the open (e.g. no bathroom viewing). I told him if he was willing ot hear, I would share with him my feelings about P and why it specifically hurts me.

the email went so-so. He basically came to me and said "I got your email" and I said "did it make logical sense" and basically he just nodded, hugged me, and said "I love you."

I did further checking on the android (I'm tech savvy) and believe that while there is potential for a problem here, and P has been a part of his life off and on for years, he may be telling the truth in the above story. Aside from the android, I can verify no P contact for the past 4 years, no chatrooms, etc. My instinct kicked in with the Android, and i followed up, but my instinct hadn't kicked in prior to that.

So my conundrum is how to handle things from here.

the monitor helps me see there's no P on his computer. I know savvy P users know how to get around things, but this has a keylogger and it records everything. With the android now out in the open (we go to bed at the same time, and like so many SOs here, I've learned to sleep lightly to be alert. Unfortunately) and my capabilities in seeing what's on it, there's less a chance of a slip.

I don't plan on playing detective all day long. But I've moved into seeing how I can improve our communication. It's hard. He doesn't want to talk about it. Because he's not defensive or offensive, and because he's been 'good' for the past several years, playing tough or confrontational doesn't feel right here. But we still have serious issues with our sx life, around him initiating, and being 'present' when we have it.

About 10 days ago, he initiated, and it was very nice for a change. I want to encourage that.

I would welcome feedback or advice. I cut a lot out of this I had written because it had gotten so long.

Sometimes it feels like tiptoeing. And right now everything feels so gray.

thank you for reading this very long letter. I promise to be briefer in times to come. :)

[Crisodian]

dottedlines,
Welcome to TTF. I am the SO of a PA who has been in recovery now since September of 2009.

There are sooooo many things in your story that resonate with me. I would say there will be more than a few SOs here who see similarities with our PAs.

Sorry this will be a bit brief as I am headed off to an insane work day : /

A couple of things stand out to me. There seems to be a common theme among PAs who use a lot of MB struggling with ED. It was a great thing for you to send him the research along those lines. There are many who don't make that connection.

Second, has he openly admitted he has an addiction? From what you have described here, it certainly sounds like typical PA/SA behavior. If he has not said "I have an addiction/problem and I need help", you should encourage him to do so. Also encouraging him to seek help, whether on a site like this, or professional, he will benefit from it. Maybe simply encourage him to read here and see what other PAs have gone through, especially those with SOs. A few journies come to mind immediately: FoolishMind, Daniel, In Need of Help, Mac and there are many more. They all have Recovery Journals.

And for you, the Partner's Forum will be a safety net. Feel free to start your own journal there. You will find many, many SOs who will help support you and help you heal from this as well.

Make sure, above all, that you do find healing for yourself, regardless of what happens with your H's PA. It is so critical for our health and wellbeing!

Find a path to peace,
~C~

[JenMac]

HI Dottedlines!
Welcometo TTF!
I too can relate to your story in many ways.
I am so glad to see you working through this with your H. I believe that open communication, despite the discomfort, is what will help the two of you move on to a better place. It is a strange thing but my H Mac and I have found that continuing dialogue about these struggles helps to foster a close connection between us. I think the first instinct is to just fix it and move on, but I now believe that this has to be kept in the forefront of our lives to protect us from future problems.
As for the ED, I agree with you and Cris. The ED is made worse by this addiction, not better. What we have come to treasure through this time is the real intimacy that can come from the closeness we have forged during this difficult time. The pleasures of that intimacy relate specifically to how we are feeling in relation to being connected. The connection is what drives it, just as it fails to happen when we are falling short with that.
I understand your feelings that you need to tiptoe, but I would encourage you not to let this opportunity to slip away. I have found this needs to be talked about continually in order to get to a better place. The only way past it is through it. At least that has been my experience.
I am glad you are here Dottedlines! I hope you find TTF to be the blessing in your life that it has been in mine.
All the best!
Jenn

[dottedlines]

thank you Jenn + Cris.

I appreciate, greatly, the fast and warm welcome.

Jenn, I have this dream of a scenario like you describe: light on the other side of pain & difficulty. I'm fortunate to have a husband whose attitude about life is tremendous. Whenever we've faced pain (outside of P) in the past, it's brought us closer. We've grown from it.

This stuff is different. Part of my hesitancy to talk further is the shame issue. After I discovered the chat things again 4 years ago, we went to a generic marriage retreat several months later. He usually hates that kind of stuff (e.g. isn't a fan of pop psychology, etc). But it was clear I wanted to try and make something of it, so for my sake, he tried. One thign we had to do was journal about something that's hard for us to talk about in our marriage.

He wrote about shame. He didn't get specific about sx or P, but he said "the hardest thing I feel about our relationship is feeling shame."

This is a man who strongly wants to "do good" by me. It's why I haven't resorted this time to intense anger at him. I know about the shame, and I know he hates this feeling of letting me down.

that's what's stopping me from pressing any issues further. I sent the research because i felt it could appeal to his logical brain.

I want a way to talk about this that doesn't trigger shame further, for I believe the shame in itself can be a triggering event.

It's a catch-22. :(

One idea I had was to share my experiences with stopping MB myself. About how I realized recently that it was easier for me to go take care of myself than turn to him, and then I saw in doing so, it made sx with him feeling like something we 'had' to do rather than coming from a place of desire.

I thought if i share my own experience about that, it could reduce shame and help show a willingness for vulnerability on my part.

Anyway, I'll keep thinking on this, and yes, journal. I've started a journal internally on my computer but will shift to here. Every day since discovering the P feels so different than the day before. It's a turmoil.

thank you.

let's just called me dottie. heehee :)

[Cupcakemomma]

Welcome to TTF, Dottedlines. I am sorry you find yourself here, but there are so many amazing, supportive people here that will help you through this journey any way they can.

[maggie]

Hi Dottedlines....dot dot dot..

Your post impressed me for many reasons, one being how supportive and caring you are being... I know for me, as a SO, I was so shocked and disgusted, I wasn't able to think logically about how to help him and found that I was on a crazy mission to figure out just how deeply he was into this cr*p and how it changed him. I did alot of reading and what I read frightened me. The brain chemicals, the surges and urges and the multi-dimensional triggers from a distorted perception of women.

It's clear you love him and appreciate his heart & soul... just need him to stop this bad behavior/addiction. You did question whether or not he has an addiction. That is the big question isn't it ? But I guess any compulsive behavior that interfers with living your life to the fullest, is a problem, whether it's over eating or looking at videos of naked people doing odd s*xl things.

You will help alot of people here, both PAs and SOs, just by your logical and encouraging take on this p mess.
You offered him medical research about his ED and its link to PA, you're tech savvy... a big plus in screening internet access and controlling other p devices like the Android!! You seem to have some Psych background about shame and other human feeling that affect our behavior.

I'm hopeful for you and your partner. He's lucky to have your support and understanding.

maggie

I look forward to your continuing progress in helping your man.

[dottedlines]

Maggie, thank you.
It's been a long road here. But because H is so wonderful in every otehr aspect of our marriage, adn has helped me grow tremendously as a person, it is, I suppose, both easier and harder for me to be compassionate. It's harder because the love is intermingled with so much pain. But the love allows me to try and put myself in his shoes, and support as best I can.

I will also try my best to help others here with the tech stuff. I know when you don't know how to check out all these things, it's daunting. I will say the android is an annoying thing. It's not as easy to monitor as a PC computer.

in kindness & (sometimes) hope,
DL

[JenMac]

HI Dottie! (HeeHee)
Yes I agree that the shame is a huge worry! That is why I believe that it is necessary to talk about it and get it out. In my mind, if it is not addressed, it becomes buried, and more of a problem? Does that make sense?
I know for our situation, it was hard in the beginnning to have discussions without mac going to that dark place. He spoke about it with his counsellor and his counsellor told him a story that went something like this. ......If Jenn had fallen in a hole there are 3 ways of dealing with that. 1. walk on by and ignore her cries for help. 2. climb down in there with her. 3. lend a hand and help to pull her up. Well of course mac was climbing down there with me by going to the darkest places himself, but once he realized that I really needed his help to pull me up, he tried very hard not to go there and to reach out to me to pull me out of my dark place. That story helped mac to see things differently Dottie and while it didn't always work that way of course but it got better over time.
We both need to realize that each will have dark days and by bringing all of the heartache out into the open, it will hopefully make it less threatening with time.
This of course is never perfect Dottie! It continues to be a work in progress even after all of this time. But by keeping this on the front burner, it allows us opportunities to learn how to deal with it without it sinking us in the extreme.
I, like you, did not experience anger Dottie. A lot of hurt and emotional turmoil but anger was the lesser emotion for me. Strange how that was but true nonetheless.
All the best Dottie!
Jenn