Hello

[autumn88]

Hello,

I'm new here. I was trying to deal with things on my own, but I don't know what to do anymore. My SO and I have been having issues for awhile and we've gotten ourselves into a huge rut. The worst part is that I like watching p*rn! But being ignored due to it is not my cup of tea.

I don't really know what is okay to say on here and whats best kept private, so hopefully I said enough. I've already read through a lot of the fourms, it's nice knowing that I'm not alone and or crazy!

[2frustrated]

The more you learn about p, the less you'll like it. Glad you're here.

[autumn88]

Actually a problem I'm having with this site is that I don't think anyone is addressing the fact that the p*rn and the addiction are two separate entities. It is not the p*rn that is a problem, it is the addiction. By itself, as a 2nd option to s*x (or a first if you are abstaining) p*rn is not a horrible thing. It is when porn has a negative impact on your life (ie. It effects your work, schooling, relationship, etc). And while the feelings of a significant other matter, their opinion about porn is not what matters. Some real impacts caused by an addiction to p*rn on a relationship are: a decline in communication even though their is no reason for it (the SO would not get mad by the use of p*rn), or a decline in intimacy that was once shared in the relationship.

Would you stop drinking with friends on the weekend because your so got jealous that you were drinking with others?

And I see that a lot of women here are really jealous of their significant others watching p*rn. Well do you ever oggle at Johnny Depp? Do you ever watch romantic comedys and imagine kissing dreamy mcsteamy? Well then, that is women's p*rn and you are engaging in a similar act.

I know that some people will bring up the derogatory overtones of p*rn directed towards women. Well, I can't argue with that. But, there is good porn out there that both women and men can enjoy alone or together that treats both sexes as equals. Even p*rn that celebrates relationships and is funny. It exists! And some of it is even entertaining, when its done good.

There is so much shame associated with p*rn, and its horrible. The human sexual experience should be thought of something beautiful and incredibly interesting. There is not one way of having s*x, or one type of p*rn that is better than any other. All people have different things that turn them on, thats what makes us all so interesting. I say that everyone should embrace their inner freak, and work to feel comfortable opening up with who they chosen to.

And also, I've noticed that many women here are withholding s*x from their SO's. I don't really understand this concept, so if anyone would like to explain it to me please do. My problem is that I'm not getting enough s*x from my SO who has a problem, and so I often have to go it alone. I am human afterall, I have needs - and if I don't relieve myself somehow that I will just end up looking for it elsewhere eventually. So, I feel that if the PA still wants to have s*x with you, and you're withholding it from them, and not letting them please themselves that that is kind of mean. I would be incredibly bitter and resentful if someone withheld s*x from me and told me not to do anything about my human needs.

[JenMac]

Actually a problem I'm having with this site is that I don't think anyone is addressing the fact that the porn and the addiction are two separate entities. It is not the porn that is a problem, it is the addiction. By itself, as a 2nd option to sex (or a first if you are abstaining) porn is not a horrible thing. It is when porn has a negative impact on your life (ie. It effects your work, schooling, relationship, etc). And while the feelings of a significant other matter, their opinion about porn is not what matters. Some real impacts caused by an addiction to porn on a relationship are: a decline in communication even though their is no reason for it (the SO would not get mad by the use of porn), or a decline in intimacy that was once shared in the relationship.

Would you stop drinking with friends on the weekend because your so got jealous that you were drinking with others?

And I see that a lot of women here are really jealous of their significant others watching porn. Well do you ever oggle at Johnny Depp? Do you ever watch romantic comedys and imagine kissing dreamy mcsteamy? Well then, that is women's porn and you are engaging in a similar act.

I know that some people will bring up the derogatory overtones of porn directed towards women. Well, I can't argue with that. But, there is good porn out there that both women and men can enjoy alone or together that treats both sexes as equals. Even porn that celebrates relationships and is funny. It exists! And some of it is even entertaining, when its done good.

There is so much shame associated with porn, and its horrible. The human sexual experience should be thought of something beautiful and incredibly interesting. There is not one way of having sex, or one type of porn that is better than any other. All people have different things that turn them on, thats what makes us all so interesting. I say that everyone should embrace their inner freak, and work to feel comfortable opening up with who they chosen to.

And also, I've noticed that many women here are withholding sex from their SO's. I don't really understand this concept, so if anyone would like to explain it to me please do. My problem is that I'm not getting enough sex from my SO who has a problem, and so I often have to go it alone. I am human afterall, I have needs - and if I don't relieve myself somehow that I will just end up looking for it elsewhere eventually. So, I feel that if the PA still wants to have sex with you, and you're withholding it from them, and not letting them please themselves that that is kind of mean. I would be incredibly bitter and resentful if someone withheld sex from me and told me not to do anything about my human needs.

Wow Autumn! I am not sure where to begin!
However, I will begin with, welcome to TTF! A place where we have all come to heal from the intrusion of P in our lives. I know there are many who would share you view on P, but they usually don't frequent here.
I, for one, have never liked P of any kind. I suspect I come from a different age group than you. I never liked the P found in magazines, let alone what can be found in cyberspace.
I have always felt it is degrading to women, and since this difficulty has happened in our lives, to men as well.
I have only recently come to realize that when we are searching outiside of ourselves for something to excite us in a s*xual way, we are not discovering the most awesome intimacy of our lives. I am speaking of couples here by the way. You see, after having tried numerous ways over the years, many years, to keep things alive in our s*x life, I have discovered that the emotional connection, the intimacy shared with the one who is most important to me brings far more pleasure than any of the other superficial ways of trying to spice things up. There is nothing more fulfilling, more s*xy, more healthy than finding that pleasure in the arms of the one you love. It is the most awesome feeling! It just brings more and more to the relationship.
So Autumn, I am so sorry that you are experiencing this disconnect within your relationship. That is a very sad thing indeed. But to me, there is nothing good that will come from the viewing of P. It is all bad. To me, it is sacred territory between 2 people who love each other. Within a couple, the viewing of P, can do nothing but take away from the feelings of respect, safety and feeling cherished. I, for one, cannot separate those feelings from the act of viewing P. To me, it is a betrayal of our marriage vows. It is not something I am willing to live with as I know I could not feel loved and respected if that were to continue.
So Autumn I have to say I disagree with you that it is the addiction and not the viewing of P that is the only problem. To me both are a problem. And society is suffering hugely because of it. Society's acceptance of the idea that P is not a problem is exacerbating the problem in a BIG way!!
Autumn, I hope you will read of the affects that P has had on many here with an open mind. I know, for me, a lot of learning has happened over the past year. I have seen that happen for many others as well, my H included. I hope you will listen with an open mind and take what you like and leave the rest. We will not always agree on what we believe but I know TTF has been a huge blessing to me in my healing.
All the best!
Jenn

[HopefulsRock]

Autumn... you have said a lot here for your first entry... welcome to TTF.

First of all I'll be honest... No offense but I really can't tell who's who in your post? ...are you a male who is addicted to P and your partner or wife is the female SO? ....Sorry just needing to clarify for myself I guess.

I can say though that comparing this,

Would you stop drinking with friends on the weekend because your so got jealous that you were drinking with others?

to the intimacy of making love is a bit ridiculous!

Also there is no such thing as good P... it's all bad! Bad for relationships and society as a whole! The industry and the people running it are just merely exploiting those involved for the sake of money with no regard for the damage it causes to those who are using there product! ...sounds scarily like the drug industry doesn't it?

[Hibiscus]

I don't want to get sucked into a debate over P itself and whether it's right or wrong. But I do think you're missing some huge points, Autumn.

For the vast majority of the non-PA partners on this forum, we did not invite P into our lives and our partners were clear on this from the beginning. A partners opinion about P absolutely matters! It is a choice, and our choice to not have it in our lives is just as valid as someone else choosing to have it in theirs. My husband had, and now has, the choice to embrace P as a single person, or with someone else who condones it. When he chose to be in a relationship with me, he knew the expectation was no P. If his expectation had been to include P, my choice would have been to move on.

I also think you are misunderstanding much of what you are reading with regard to partners withholding s*x. Many of the partners on this forum have been dealing with this for years - not just the P and their own distaste for it, but many years of lying and disconnection. They aren't punishing their partners by deliberately withholding. They are struggling to feel the necessary attraction, trust and connection to their partner that they need in order to be intimate. Also, some PAs and their partners choose to obstain for a certain amount of time in order give themselves time to clear the images from their minds, work on recovery, and reconnect with their partners on other levels. Some partners need that time as well to deal with their own recovery after discovering things they were unaware of for years.

While you may not agree with the majority opinion on this forum, your posts are showing a lack of compassion for those in a different position. Until you have read every story on this board, you have no idea how out of control this can get and the damage it can cause.

Also, it would benefit you to read the forum guidelines. Certain words and descriptions can be triggering to those trying to eliminate P from their lives. As a courtesy, we try to avoid those. Many PAs use filtering software on their computers to block certain sites and content. Those filters often use key words like p*rn and s*x to block content. If your posts spell out those words, many members will never see your posts because their filtering programs will block the page.

I'm sorry you are dealing with the ramifications of PA in your own relationship. We can agree that when P becomes a substitute for physical intimacy within your relationship, it is a huge problem. Unfortunately for you, if your partner is a PA, then your only chance for recovery as a couple is a zero tolerance policy on P use itself. There is no such thing as a little bit for an addict, no matter what the substance. It will need to be eliminated in order for your partner to be able to reestablish a physical connection to you that outweights the desire for P.

It appears you may need to do a bit more reading and then decide for yourself exactly what you want from your current relationship. If in the end, you decide that connection and intimacy with your partner is the number one goal, and you want to stay and help him work on recovering from addiction, then you've found a wonderful place to support and help you with that goal.

[IN NEED OF HELP]

I first put this,in response to your reply in another post, regarding Is viewing P cheating, but felt it would be best to copy it to your journal.

I am a bit confused here autumn88. To be honest, are you sure TTF is the right place for you to be?
ALL of us are here, because of the impact that that P has on our lives. we see that we now, have NO place for this crap, in our lives. because of this addiction, we almost lost everything/everyone, that we love, and it just destroyed, the security that we should have in our own home. You will not find ANYONE here, that is going to agree with you, and your way of thinking, when it comes to this addiction.

Our purpose here at TTF, is to help the many, who struggle with this PROBLEM in there life, and have come to see, just how damaging it is to there relationship. No one here at all, will even try to justify why it is ok to use this sick addiction anymore. To me, it seems, that you are hoping to hear, that it is ok, for you to continue to view P, and that your Partner should be ok with you doing this. If this is the answer, that you are wanting to hear, then, I will tell you right now, TTF, is not a place for you.

But if you are an addict, who truly does want to be free from this addiction, and has come to see, that there is no more room for it to be in your life, then you are at the RIGHT place, and we will help you the best we can.

We will be able to help you even more, if we knew the main reason why you are here. I say this because, you say that ,P should be ok to look at, but yet, in your profile, it says that you are a Partner of a PA. So if you are a partner of an addict, then why is it, ok for you to view P??
Weather is is here, or from other source, I do hope that you find the help/answers, that you are looking for

[autumn88]

I know there are many who would share you view on P, but they usually don't frequent here.
I, for one, have never liked P of any kind. I suspect I come from a different age group than you. I never liked the P found in magazines, let alone what can be found in cyberspace.

That is the first proper response to my opinion I've seen yet. Thank you. I realize that that everyone has differing opinions, and it is nice to not be told that I am wrong. And I'm 22 by the way, and incredibly liberal minded.

So Autumn, I am so sorry that you are experiencing this disconnect within your relationship. That is a very sad thing indeed. But to me, there is nothing good that will come from the viewing of P. It is all bad. To me, it is sacred territory between 2 people who love each other. Within a couple, the viewing of P, can do nothing but take away from the feelings of respect, safety and feeling cherished. I, for one, cannot separate those feelings from the act of viewing P. To me, it is a betrayal of our marriage vows. It is not something I am willing to live with as I know I could not feel loved and respected if that were to continue.
So Autumn I have to say I disagree with you that it is the addiction and not the viewing of P that is the only problem. To me both are a problem. And society is suffering hugely because of it. Society's acceptance of the idea that P is not a problem is exacerbating the problem in a BIG way!!

I would really love to hear your opinion about what I said about romantic comedies. Personally, I and just about every female I know has at one point of another been swept up in the completely unrealistic romanticism that festers in romcom's. Women routinely make checklists of their perfect mate, while daydreaming that their So's will sweep them off their feet. Other women I know have gotten depressed after the viewing of romantic comedies when they start second guessing the legitimacy of their own relationship. "Joe never buys me roses every Friday after work. I need someone who truly loves me" yada yada yada.
And lastly, the most obvious connection between p*rn and romantic comedies is that women everywhere fall attracted to the leading men in these movies. I noted Johnny Depp as my preferential male lead, but I'm sure many of the women on this site have some sort of celebrity crush. The thing is, is that we actually day dream about being with these people. Many of the women who I've spoken to would leave their boyfriends/husbands in a flash if their celebrity crush came to swoop them away, but I've never ever heard a man ever bring up what he would do if a p*rn actress asked them out - cause frankly I don't think they get as attached to who they are watching on the screen - they don't think about leaving you for the people they are watching in p*rn.

I can say though that comparing this,
Would you stop drinking with friends on the weekend because your so got jealous that you were drinking with others?
to the intimacy of making love is a bit ridiculous!

I was comparing how people on this site are treating p*rn how women treated alcohol while bringing about prohibition. Prohibition was brought on by concerned women who didn't like that their husbands were addicted to the substance, but as most people would nowadays agree, alcohol is not bad when it is consumed responsibly. Alcohol abuse is what is bad. Blaming the substance for the abuse is silly in my opinion.

The industry and the people running it are just merely exploiting those involved for the sake of money with no regard for the damage it causes to those who are using there product! ...sounds scarily like the drug industry doesn't it?

I think cigarettes are a lot worse than p*rn. And guns, and anyone who is against gay marriage, and anyone who has higher level jobs at Walmart. And Wall Street. And George Bush. And the military industrial complex (they make more money when weapons are fired!!!) And frankly people often get addicted to pain killers (aka. legal drugs) and end up ruining their lives, but if anyone ever tried to take away my ability to access pain medication when I needed it I would be completely pissed off.

For the vast majority of the non-PA partners on this forum, we did not invite P into our lives and our partners were clear on this from the beginning. A partners opinion about P absolutely matters! It is a choice, and our choice to not have it in our lives is just as valid as someone else choosing to have it in theirs. My husband had, and now has, the choice to embrace P as a single person, or with someone else who condones it. When he chose to be in a relationship with me, he knew the expectation was no P. If his expectation had been to include P, my choice would have been to move on.

I don't completely agree with putting those kinds of conditions on your husband who is his own person, but okay. I like that you at least admitted that he would have a choice if he was single. And if he's really not changing, then maybe you two aren't really meant for each other. You might take that the wrong way but I don't mean it in a bad way at all. Sometimes love isn't enough to hold a relationship together, sometimes people are just not compatible.

I'm sorry you are dealing with the ramifications of PA in your own relationship. We can agree that when P becomes a substitute for physical intimacy within your relationship, it is a huge problem. Unfortunately for you, if your partner is a PA, then your only chance for recovery as a couple is a zero tolerance policy on P use itself. There is no such thing as a little bit for an addict, no matter what the substance. It will need to be eliminated in order for your partner to be able to reestablish a physical connection to you that outweights the desire for P.

That was the kind of advice I was looking for, based on actual addiction philosophies. I do want to try and explore different options with him first, but I am fully aware that a zero-tolerance policy could be the only thing to help him. I'm still trying to assess if he has a real problem, how deep it goes and what he needs from me and if I'm willing and capable of helping him.

[Hibiscus]

I don't completely agree with putting those kinds of conditions on your husband who is his own person, but okay. I like that you at least admitted that he would have a choice if he was single. And if he's really not changing, then maybe you two aren't really meant for each other. You might take that the wrong way but I don't mean it in a bad way at all. Sometimes love isn't enough to hold a relationship together, sometimes people are just not compatible.

That's where idealism bumps heads with reality. I find it contradictory that you voice concern for my husbands ability to maintain P in his life, or anyone else who chooses to have it in theirs, but don't appear to show any concern for partners who do not wish to have P in their lives or relationships. That strikes me as very hypocritical.

Autumn, not everything is black and white in life. I met my husband when I was younger than you and knew he was looking at P. What I didn't know was the extent, or that he was already a PA, or even that PA existed. I too was fine with it in theory, but I had not yet dealt with the ramifications of P addiction on a relationship. He claimed it was a substitute in between girlfriends, and I was naive enough to buy it. He even put on a big show of getting rid of his "stash" in my presence and insisting he didn't need it or want it anymore because he had me. But slowly it crept back in and our s*x life and emotional intimacy began to suffer, much as you describe with your partner. That's when it became not ok. At any point, he could have chosen to be honest with the extent of his use and given me the choice to decide whether to stay and accept it or move on. He instead chose to hide and lie about it for many years.

Since the truth has come out and the full extent of his addiction revealed, we have both had choices to make again. The difference is, this time the decisions are based on truth and facts. He has decided he doesn't want P in his life, regardless of whether I stay or leave, because it is causing him damage - not just in his relationship with me, but in almost every aspect of his life. He has not viewed P since the day he made this decision last November. I'm not on TTF to try to convince him P is wrong. I found my way here by accident when researching P addiction and thought the info and support would help us both - and it has tremendously.

That was the kind of advice I was looking for, based on actual addiction philosophies. I do want to try and explore different options with him first, but I am fully aware that a zero-tolerance policy could be the only thing to help him. I'm still trying to assess if he has a real problem, how deep it goes and what he needs from me and if I'm willing and capable of helping him.

Which is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to truth, facts, and choice. You are in the process of assessing the situation and your relationship, and then deciding if this is the path you want to go down. You now have a choice. Many of us weren't given that option this early in the relationship because of the deceit involved in hiding the addition.

TTF exists to help people eliminate P addiction from their lives. It's not a place where people come to debate whether it's right or wrong. By the time most people sign up here, it has already had devastating consequences. I'm sure there are other forums where you can debate the topic from a philosophical standpoint. But this forum is for those who have already decided it is not something they want in their life or relationship and are ready to try to take the steps to eliminate it. Not everyone succeeds or decides to stick with recovery. But the support is here for those who want it.

[JenMac]

That is the first proper response to my opinion I've seen yet. Thank you. I realize that that everyone has differing opinions, and it is nice to not be told that I am wrong. And I'm 22 by the way, and incredibly liberal minded.

I would really love to hear your opinion about what I said about romantic comedies. Personally, I and just about every female I know has at one point of another been swept up in the completely unrealistic romanticism that festers in romcom's. Women routinely make checklists of their perfect mate, while daydreaming that their So's will sweep them off their feet. Other women I know have gotten depressed after the viewing of romantic comedies when they start second guessing the legitimacy of their own relationship. "Joe never buys me roses every Friday after work. I need someone who truly loves me" yada yada yada.
And lastly, the most obvious connection between p*rn and romantic comedies is that women everywhere fall attracted to the leading men in these movies. I noted Johnny Depp as my preferential male lead, but I'm sure many of the women on this site have some sort of celebrity crush. The thing is, is that we actually day dream about being with these people. Many of the women who I've spoken to would leave their boyfriends/husbands in a flash if their celebrity crush came to swoop them away, but I've never ever heard a man ever bring up what he would do if a p*rn actress asked them out - cause frankly I don't think they get as attached to who they are watching on the screen - they don't think about leaving you for the people they are watching in p*rn.

I was comparing how people on this site are treating p*rn how women treated alcohol while bringing about prohibition. Prohibition was brought on by concerned women who didn't like that their husbands were addicted to the substance, but as most people would nowadays agree, alcohol is not bad when it is consumed responsibly. Alcohol abuse is what is bad. Blaming the substance for the abuse is silly in my opinion.

I think cigarettes are a lot worse than p*rn. And guns, and anyone who is against gay marriage, and anyone who has higher level jobs at Walmart. And Wall Street. And George Bush. And the military industrial complex (they make more money when weapons are fired!!!) And frankly people often get addicted to pain killers (aka. legal drugs) and end up ruining their lives, but if anyone ever tried to take away my ability to access pain medication when I needed it I would be completely pissed off.

I don't completely agree with putting those kinds of conditions on your husband who is his own person, but okay. I like that you at least admitted that he would have a choice if he was single. And if he's really not changing, then maybe you two aren't really meant for each other. You might take that the wrong way but I don't mean it in a bad way at all. Sometimes love isn't enough to hold a relationship together, sometimes people are just not compatible.

That was the kind of advice I was looking for, based on actual addiction philosophies. I do want to try and explore different options with him first, but I am fully aware that a zero-tolerance policy could be the only thing to help him. I'm still trying to assess if he has a real problem, how deep it goes and what he needs from me and if I'm willing and capable of helping him.

Hmmm, romantic comedies. I do like romantic comedies Autumn. I find them quite enjoyable to be truthful.
The fact that I like romantic comedies is not however related to a love for the actor who plays the lead, it is more just based on the delightful connection between the couple and the storyline. I suppose there was a time, in my much younger teen years that I had favourite actors or heartthrobs that I was smitten with. That has long since passed and I don't hold any particular male stars close to my heart. I can certainly acknowledge their attractiveness but without any lusting after or pining for. I wonder if the women you are referring to are from a much younger age group?
You see, I am in love with my H. I put all of my energies into that love and especially so since this upheaval in our lives. My H and I have both rediscovered the joys of giving to each other, of paying full attention to our relationship and all that we have together. We have been working very hard to not let outside influences affect our relationship in a negative way. We are very thankful for this connection in our lives.
I don't know many women who fantasize or dream about a celebrity or who certainly would not be thinking along the lines of leaving their spouse for them. That seems like something that perhaps is restricted to a much younger group of people Autumn. I am sure as you get older you will find that this is not the norm either.
All the best!
Jenn