Desperate's Daybook

[widowgirl]

Just looking back at what I wrote, and thinking what a hard lesson that is to learn. DH you have been through so much worse than me, and I so admire you and LMH already. You guys are conquering drugs and alcohol and now this. Amazing.

Dear DH

Oh I am in tears reading your posts, it brings so much back to me. Please don't hate yourself. May I share something, and don't take it the wrong way:

In my travels for my job, several P producers have approached me over the years and offered me work- and no I didn't. I only bring this up because in spite of me apparently meeting their "standard", whatever that is, my own husband was totally addicted to porn and pushing me away! Because to me nobody's opinion mattered but his, I too felt ugly and insecure because apparently I wasn't his type. I still can't read some of the stuff here without my heart racing with that remembered anger and pain.

Don't stay stuck in that trap. I have read your hubby's posts too and they blew me away. I have often said it before: If mine had said it this way, it would have changed everything while he was alive. If I have learned one thing here, it is that P addiction has nothing to do with us! Praying for you dear DH.

[DesperateHousewife]

For many years, I have avoided too much growth. I have been afraid that if I allowed myself to grow, my husband would not come with me. That he would actually be relieved that I was no longer invading his space so that he would be free to continue pursing himself without always having me in his way begging him to see me. That we would wind up in a pseudo relationship of convenience, divorced from intimacy, like business associates. I would cook and clean, teach and raise the children and he would pay the bills. We would just exist together. I am still afraid of that. Terrified. Though, much of the time, it actually feels like this is the relationship we have already.

What if he sees me becoming strong without him and decides I don't need him anymore?
What if he sees me becoming confident without him and decides that I don't need him anymore?
What if he sees me growing without him and decides that I don't need him anymore?
What if he sees me blossoming and decides that I don't need him anymore?

What if he really does love his addiction more than me?
What if he chooses his addiction over me?
What if we aren't worth the effort?
What if he doesn't come with me?

What if I lose him?

I absolutely realize that I cannot be of any service to my husband in regard to the choices he makes. No matter how hard I try, no matter how much I cry, no matter how much I hurt, no matter how deeply, how desperatly I want to be one with him in every area, to be his partner, his lover, his friend, his confidant, his side-kick.... I cannot make him want the same things. I also realize that a relationship built upon the back of one person isn't actually a relationship. All of the effort I put forth; to be available, to be attractive, to be helpful, to be honest, to be forgiving, to be willing, to be interested, to be generous..... well, I guess I think I expect it to work. As if all of my effort should be enough for both of us. That he should see how committed I am to him and that should just fix everything. I have a hard time letting go of the delusion that I have any influence over the choices he makes. I have a hard time letting go of the delusion that I am the problem or solution. I have a hard time letting go. My whole world is wrapped up in him, or, I am all wrapped up around him? As it stands, to me, it seems like I am the chains tightening around him, trying hard to keep him, so I won't be alone, .....and he just wants to be free.

I absolutely realize that he wants what he wants, and that what he wants is the result of HIM wanting it, and that, naturally, he goes after and gets what he wants. He wants what he wants because HE wants it, not because I want him to want it, no matter how hard I try to make him want it.

There is someting that I have heard for years and have always had a strong (self-serving) inclination against.......

"If you love someone, let them go, for if they return, they were always yours. And if they don't, they never were." - Kahlil Gibran.

I've had the most difficult (self-serving) time understanding how this could be true, but it is making gut-wrenching, spirit crushing, horrifyingly frightening sense to me right now. I don't want it to be true, because I am petrified of the consequences. What if I 'let him go' and he doesn't 'come back'. What if he likes being free of me? All of my fears are found in this. All of them.

I realize that I MUST grow. I MUST go forward. I MUST.

I just don't want to travel alone.

I don't like being alone.

I don't want to go anywhere without him.

[waterlily327]

You are asking some really difficult questions, but they are important questions to ask yourself. That is a very powerful post. I suggest letting your husband read this post. You raise a lot of points that I think both of you need to spend think about to move your relationship forward.

And I agree with you: you must grow, and move forward. Holding yourself back isn’t healthy for yourself or your relationship. Good luck!

[JenMac]

Hi Desperate!

What if he sees you becoming stronger and he wants that for himself?
What if he sees you becoming confident and he wants that for himself?
What if he sees you growing and he wants that for himself?
What if he sees you blossoming and he finds that very attractive and he wants that for himself?

If he let him go, not only will he make the decision about whether to come back or not, but his accomplishments (or failures) will also belong to him. There is a pride that can come with those accomplishments knowing that they have done well for themselves. If it is the latter, then there are also consequences they have to contend with. Seems like either situation is a lesson in life.
I am not suggesting that we can't help our partners, that we can't support and nurture them if they are doing their part. Quite the contrary. It is wonderful when we can work together! But we should never fear moving forward to a better place for ourselves, as that is the healthiest thing we can do in all of this. But then you already knew this!
Take the leap Desperate! You are certainly correct in your thinking.
All the best!
Jenn

[leadmehome]

This is crazy talk D.H. I thought you said you weren't crazy. I am right where I want to be, with you. All of your efforts to change me and keep me around have only inspired me and challanged me to be a better man. If I didn't have you I would be lost and alone and an even bigger failure than I am. I have never thought of you as a ball n chain but my anchor in the storm. Remember when I met you 16 plus years ago? I had no ambition or direction or anything going for myself. I was a toilet paper packager who got fired for missing to much work, now I build bridges and I'm a part of one of the best crews around on the biggest job in the state. I am the proud papa of 5 awsome children. And best of all I have an amazing and beautiful wife, you.

[DesperateHousewife]

I have been told so many times that this isn't about me. That it doesn't have anything to do with me, but I absolutely, resolutely, unapologetically disagree. It may not have been about me before I came into the picture (at least not under the influence of my husband. I have been objectified, oppressed and afflicted by pornography and it's clientelle for as long as I can remember), but it sure as #@!! is now. It actually does the opposite of help when I hear this nonsense, because It tells me that I am utterly invisible.

"Silly woman, this isn't even about you." That's what I hear. Every cell in my body, every fiber of my being screams back in unison, "YES IT IS!"

It sounds patronizing and there is absolutely zero comfort or reassurance in it whatsoever. It IS about me! Look at what it's done to me! Look at what it's turned me into! It became about me when I started being assaulted by it, period. It isn't just about him.

The day my husband searches for and gets off on images of women who've been stretched way beyond their elastic capabilities, who's hair is graying, whose breasts sag, whose thighs jiggle, who is covered in cellulite, who suffers pubescent breakouts, who embodies her viking heritage........ in that day, I might be able to believe that his pornographic pursuits have nothing to do with the way I look, or my sex appeal, or his level of attraction to me. I can tell myself that it doesn't, all day long, and I will never believe it. I know, because I've tried.

I am compelled to attain the utterly impossible, and berate myself for the impossibility of being able to do so.

This sucks.

[widowgirl]

There is nothing silly about the pain you are feeling. It's real and we all share that pain and damage. You hit the nail on the head when you call it an assault; it's like nothing else I've ever felt, and you have expressed it in very powerful words. I think we all hurt with you.

I hope you didn't think I or anyone else was being patronizing. If so, I sincerely apologize. Scratch any of us and that hurt is right under the surface.

[DesperateHousewife]

It is sad for me knowing that so many of us are feeling the way I feel. Knowing that another human being is suffering the same greivous wounds makes it hurt more. I wasn't speaking to anyone specifically, just the ease and frequency at which those condescending attempts to make me, well, all of us, feel better, and the way they pierce my eardrums, like nails on a chalkboard. I don't like hearing it on my behalf, or on behalf of anyone else. It's just empty.

You are right about that scratch though. These wounds are raw, and infected.

[Disillusioned]

Hi DHW,
Boy, I hear you. My h said the same thing over and over again, and I couldn't hear it or believe it. How could he want me when he was always fantasizing about 20 year old women who had the advantage of make up, falls, surgery, lighting, camera angles, camera tricks. I would answer him, "I know it wasn't about you and me, it was about you and other women; lots of other women." He even tried to tell me that I was his reality and they were his fantasy. I'd answer that his fantasy life just about killed my real one.
Believe it or not, it really isn't about us, or what we have, or don't have or used to have or never will have. It's there, always ready, always needy, always telling them "I want you," "I need you," (and also you and you and you), and with MB it is recorded the same as a physical event in the brain, But... It started out with curiosity, and lust and the acceptance that all men do this, and got carried away into something really infectious. The allure is the chemical fix...the brain has learned to numb itself from feeling pain, disappointment, frustration, even hunger, fatigue, etc., by the fix that was the explosion of chemicals within. A permanent track has formed and hi-jacked things so that when things aren't quite right, the urge to use becomes very, very strong...beckoning for relief from whatever is wrong. Some of our fellows are so disconnected with their feelings, they don't even realize or recognize them, let alone how to handle them in a way that isn't destructive. So, they came into P with one set of problems and are caught there with an even bigger one, and that is PA. I am reading the book, "Love you; Hate the P" by Mark Chamberlain. It is really excellent in its description of how the male mind is not geared the way ours is, and that in learning to hide emotions as young boys, it is difficult to even recognize them as adult men. The discomfort of the emotions is there, but it is hard for them to identify.
Someone on TTF was reading this the other day, started crying and called her H at work. Maybe it's because I am less tender now that I used to be...you know, like a piece of meat that's been cooked too long (4 years +). ! But I read this book and gained so much insight as to what was going on with my h. This long term problem that my h brought into us, had occurred for nearly 40 years of our lives, and I just found out 4+ years ago. I didn't even know him after all this time, and I have known him since we were in 6th grade! It got so confusing, I didn't know myself anymore. I felt crazy with the ups and downs and confusion...needing to hold, and needing to get away from. These feelings are really well described in this book.
I pray for your healing, DHW. You have 5 children that need you, and most of all you need yourself. Let yourself bloom to be all that you can be, for you, for your own growth and sanity. Many women find that their h's are even more interested in them and in taking the higher road in their lives when they see their wives grow and become the strong women they are able to be. I guarantee you, that your h isn't lying to you. Look at him. I know he looks wonderful to you, as mine does to me. I love mine so completely. But when you compare him now to a picture of him at 20, he does not look the same either. You are still a pair, and that has not changed. This started out being about titillation and belief in all men do it and all men need diversity, when the truth is that all men lust, and it can be fed or controlled. Later, what was a poor way of relaxing and calming themselves so they don't have to deal with the emotions that get churned up during a day, turns into something that actually changes the way the brain works. It can be reversed...or rewired, but it takes time and lots of work.
God bless you are on journey.

[DesperateHousewife]

I'm not buyin it. There are too many facts. I think there is some serious dishonesty about this, and predictably so. What guy wants to be the a-hole that tells his wife that her body is disgusting? There is absolutey no comfort in any of that scientifc dogma. None. Like I'm supposed to be able to just drop a lifetime of real experience in favor of a bunch of psychological mumbo-jumbo that bears no actual weight in reality, everyday life.
So, psychologically speaking, it's perfectly natural for my husband to be attracted to and pursue women who bear absolutely no resemblance to me whatsoever, and it's perfectly natural for me to feel ugly and unwanted because of it but I should just get over it, pick myself up, dust myself off and get on with my life because I'm never going to be what he is wired to want, and he's always going to want 20 year old women, because that's the way he's wired. How nice.