Figuring out how to heal...

[Leeluu]

Well, I am new here, been lurking around for little over a month but haven't posted anything, but guess it's time I said hello. This site has been a source of great strength for me and honestly believe if I had not found it I never would have had the courage to confront him. I have been aware for a few years that he looked at P occasionally and I thought I was ok with it, guess I just convinced myself it's a "guy thing" and I was supposed to be ok with it. About 8 mos. ago I discovered it was a lot more than occasionally, often times 3 and 4 times a week, which I feel is far more than any married man should be indulging in it. I probably would have remained oblivious had it not started to affect our intimacy, and it only kept getting worse, bringing out behaviors I had never been subjected to, like spending half of our son's football game checking out a pretty woman sitting close to us. A couple years ago he would never have done that.

We had our arguments about this almost a month ago, Dec. 2nd and 4th, nothing was resolved for me, all he did was get angry, defensive and blame me for "his" marriage crumbling around him. Eventually he took all the blame after seeing me break down and cry like even I haven't see me cry like before. I can't help but not trust his apologies after all the hurtful things he said just moments before, I feel like he only apologized and calmed down to appease me. It hurts like hell to think that because he is such a considerate and loving man toward me, always wants to fix things for me when I am upset about something, I should be able to trust that he is truely sorry and realizes the emotional damage he has caused me. We haven't talked about it since the first week it all came out, I know he is not comfortable with it so I guess I am allowing it to just be the "elephant in the room". So here I am trying to get through this secretly.

I have been doing fairly well the past couple of weeks, but I think mostly because I had been so busy. Wednesday was a tough day, I guess because it was the first calm day I have had for a while. Thoughts I didn't want in my head kept invading no matter how hard I tried to push them out. So I cleaned. When he came home from work, he saw that I was still buzzing around cleaning anything and everything I could think of and immediately he gets uncomfortable and asked me what was wrong since he knows the only time I get into my frantic cleaning mode is when I am bothered by something. I, of course, tell him I am fine because I want to save him from feeling any sort of guilt, especially since he feels this whole thing is resolved. I suppose it is for him, he promised to stop and has so far followed through, in two days it will be a month since he last looked at P. I am happy about that but this is not just a surface wound like he seems to think it is. As much as I wish they did, apologies and promises don't erase the pain.

Right now I can't get that night out of my head because it became very apparent that he greatly underestimates how much he hurt me, I am starting to think he is thinking I was only angry. I was surprised at how much that realization hurt me. Some days I think the only way I can get past this is if he fully understands how I was affected by all this, other days I think its better to just get over it the best I can on my own since I know stress is a trigger for him. I can't stop myself from wanting to put him first, but it's getting harder and harder to muffle the voice inside me screaming "what about me?!"

Last week seemed so promising, this week I feel like I am drowning again...I thought the tears were behind me.

[JenMac]

HI Leeluu!
Welcome to TTF, a place of where great healing and learning can take place.
Leeluu, I wish it wasn't so but your path has just begun. You are experiencing the ups and downs that so many, should I say all, of us have been through. You are experiencing trauma, and don't let anyone downplay that for you, especially yourself.
Leeluu, it was 21 months ago that I discovered my H's secret, and I have been healing ever since. I am in a good place now, but it is only from continuous work on both my H and my part that we have got here. And oh yes, that little thing called TTF! I don't know where we would be without it! So much wisdom and support here. So many kind and caring people. Man was I blessed to find this place.
Leeluu, it is very common that men will downplay and be defensive about this problem with P. It happened to me and many others who are here. They really do want to sweep this under the rug and move on. If only we would never speak of this again then everything would be well, right? Wrong. Been there, done that. Didn't work. Somehow this time I knew it had to be kept in the forefront. Not only did it need to be dealt with, but it needed to be dealt with in an ongoing manner, openly and honestly. I can tell you, it was hard to get there, but once we did it helped to even out some of those ups and downs you are experiencing.
This will not be a quick fix Leeluu. It will be an ongoing trial that you and your H will go through. But I can tell you that if you both are willing and able to give it your all, you will come to a better place. I have come to realize that while I would never wish this on anyone, it is only through this devastation in our lives that my H and I have come to this wonderful place of bonding and contentment within our marriage.
In the beginning, I shared the resources I discovered with my H, one of those being TTF. It took some time for the learning to happen but it did happen, on continuous and ever deepening levels. Don't hide your feelings Leeluu. His anger or frustration may be just a defense mechanism to keep you from digging deeper. There is a lot of shame that comes along with this addiction, some of which is to do with hurting you. If they can downplay that hurt in their minds, it is a way of protecting themselves from facing that shame. I know for my H, once he came here and realized I was not alone in my hurt, it had a huge affect on him. I think he told himself it was only me who took issue with this. Once he read my feelings and those of others, it had a way of opening his eyes to the real affects of this. It takes time for this learning to happen Leeluu, and many of us started right where you are. It is a process that happens over time.
I encourage you to set your boundaries. Express what you need clearly. And don't hide your feelings. Downplaying your feelings may be seen as protecting him, but in reality it is just holding back the truth. And the truth needs to come out, hurtful though it is. The only way past this is through it. It is a painful process, but it can be a blessing in disguise.
I am glad you are here!
Jenn

[Disillusioned]

Hi Leeluu. I am sorry you are dealing with the pain of PA in your life, but how very lucky you are to have come here. There is so much wisdom and experience here, so many who understand to the core of their being just what you are going through. Your h was hooked by a huge, money-making business that was out to hook him and ensnare him, and he didn't even realize it could. It absolutely should come with a warning and doesn't. The stimulation from this stuff travels the wiring of his brain faster than other impulses, and the neurotransmitters released when he is looking and acting out are the same ones that are secreted in response to drugs like cocaine. This is serious stuff. Lab rats with electrodes wired to give the same release as this does in the brain, and allowed to push a lever to receive stimulation, will push that lever over and over to the point that they quit eating and are not interested in a receptive, live female rat. Our men get addicted because of the neurotransmitters released just like the lab rats stimulating their imbedded electrodes.
My h always accused me of over-reacting, so I waited for two weeks before giving him even an inkling that this was the most hurtful thing he had ever done, and the most hurtful thing that I had ever experienced in my life. Holding it in got so bad, that I went late Mother's Day shopping for myself at a little run down green house that I visit every year. The owner saw me buying much more than the little bit I usually allowed myself, and he asked, "What did you do? Hit the lottery?" I said no, but that if my h could afford strippers, I could buy myself some plants, as I love gardening. I was horrified that I said that to him, or anyone. I said to him, I'm so sorry this came out. Please don't say anything as my sister is here with me, and I don't want anyone to know. I haven't told anyone. As it turned out, when this did come out, even my own kids (adults) didn't think there was anything so wrong with the activities my h was doing while away on his frequent business trips out of town. I stayed home, took care of everything, saved and was careful with money. I get yelled at for using a paper towel that he has paid for to clean a spill and he has $ to tip strippers for a particularly revealing move. I thought I'd die. I felt like the center of my chest was ripped open. Surely others could see it. I didn't find TTF till 4 years after our DDay, I had a therapist who told me that he might be doing this and avoiding an actual affair. I had a psychiatrist tell me, things didn't bother him. He left things roll off his back. Till I came here, I felt like I was the only one left that still carried the values I was raised with and raised our kids with. It was like God had dangled down a life line for me.
You will not be able to hold this in. No matter how hard I tried, it would work for a while and then overflow like a volcanic eruption.
My h told me if I could just get over this, we could be happy in our latter years. Sure, you be happy with all your little n-die cuties, and just let me here at home with my heart eaten out. Sure.
In the general discussion area there are 14 ways that PAs commonly defend or rationalize their use of P. You will be hearing a lot of them, so be ready and prepared. This is going to get really ugly and really painful. Your h is doing what we call white knuckling right now, knowing you are hurt. That alone usually isn't enough to motivate them to change. They have to change because they realize how this is wrong for them, wrong for the actors in the P, wrong for the innocent kids that stumble onto this on line, and wrong because it demeans women and makes men look at all women s-xu-lly, instead of persons with feelings, needs, and dignity just as they see themselves. You are going to need to do a lot of venting. Be very careful with whom you share this, as they will know about it for the rest of their lives, and your life and your H's life.
In the beginning, when you are talking about this, when you are setting your boundaries that you need and expect in order for you to feel safe and in an exclusive, married relationship, try to keep your voice controlled, if you can. They will absolutely respond in anger if you get angry with them. I know it is almost impossible, but try to remain calm and controlled if you are able.
God bless you in your struggle and again, welcome to TTF.
disillusioned

[waterlily327]

Welcome to TTF Leeluu. I am sorry that you find yourself in a position where you need to be here, but happy that you found the site. I am also very glad to hear that you have been reading a lot. Reading other’s stories is an excellent way to find your path in this recovery (and, yes, there is a recovery for an SO after this addiction), and really helps you realize you are not alone in suffering as a victim of this horrible addiction.

Leeluu, I hate to tell you this, but there are a lot of ups and downs to recovery. Time and time again, I have cursed the emotional rollercoaster that this recovery has put me through. The best advice I received when joining TTF was to take care of yourself. Until you being putting yourself and your needs first, the emotional swings will be harder to manage. As silly as it sounds, even doing something small each day/week, like doing your hair or nails just because, making that extra stop for your favorite coffee, making time to do a little something that makes you feel better will help you find balance within yourself and make the ups and downs easier to manage.

I wish you the best in your recovery Leeluu. I hope to read more from you soon. Good luck with everything, and remember to take care of yourself!

[Leeluu]

Ladies, thank you very much for all your kind words and advice!

Waterlily, for the last several months I thought I was trying to take care of myself, doing little things that make me feel good. Bought new clothes, got a new hair style, started working out 4-5 times a week. It was working wonders till I realized and admitted to myself that it was all for him, to get him to notice me again. What a depressing realization. I have started reading again, it's selfish time just for me and that does make feel better.

[Leeluu]

I have been doing a lot of reading of articles about men and P. When reading the replies, I couldn't help but get angry. It seems to be popular opinion that women need to get over themselves, that men and women think differently and men "need" variety and at least they aren't having real affairs so women need to stop being so insecure and get over it.

What got to me first was the use of the word "need". They don't need it, they WANT it. They imply its a need like air, food, or water. Then to go as far as admitting they know we think differently than them, but it is us that need to change our way of thinking. I think that is what bothers me most, why do women have to be the ones that change how they think and feel about it. It seems to me that it goes against a very important element of a relationship, compromise and respect of the other persons feelings regardless of the subject. How can someone honestly say they love someone if they are doing something they know hurts the other person, whether they agree with it or not, and expect that person to just suck it up and deal with it. Then to accuse women of just being insecure, that infuriates me. While everyone has insecurities, before all this came out, mine were nothing like they are now. This stuff creates low self esteem, the problems don't come from it.

Another thing said by a lot of the men was that they wouldn't have a problem if their gf/wife were doing the same. My husband tried saying the same thing at first, but I know him too well, and I knew better and after he had time to calm down and think about it, he admitted that he would have hated it if he found out I was doing the same things he was.

What baffled me the most was how many women were sticking up for the men on this subject. I couldn't help but wonder if they have ever truely loved someone, or maybe they just haven't been subjected to the hell all this creates yet. I must admit, I thought I felt differently about it before, but it was just me being naive. My husband protrayed himself of having the same values and expections for marriage as I did, I never thought this would be an issue for us. It really knocked the wind out of me to find out those expections only applied to me.

All this has me remembering something he said to me. That he doesn't know why he looks at other women as much as he does, he doesn't think about it, just does it, that its not a conscious thought. All I could tell him was I didn't understand how that could be, if I was truely everything he needed and wanted like he claims. He is everything to me and it doesn't even occur to me to look around, to think about and desire other other men and its not a conscious thought that I don't, it just is. So I wonder, is this the difference of thinking between men and women at play, or is it the difference in how he and I, as individuals, love.

[raining on the inside]

Hi Leeluu and welcome to TTF!! As all of the wonderfully supportive and knowledgeable women have stated in replies to your post, I am so sorry that you are going through this right now, but very glad that you have found TTF! I just joined a little over a month ago and it has made such a huge difference for me. There is so much wisdom, and caring, and genuine empathy and understanding here, it really helps to not feel so alone.

I have to agree with what the others have said regarding needing to be open and honest with your husband. By not speaking about it and trying to protect him you are further hurting yourself, which will also in turn hurt your relationship. I very much understand how difficult it is to bring up this topic with your significant other, especially when they respond with anger and defensiveness. My husband did the same. Like the others said, it is a long road with lots of ups and downs. My journey started over 2 years ago when I was pregnant with our daughter...I confronted him about his porn use (previously I had thought it was minimal and he had told me he had "cut back") when I realized that it was more significant than I had thought. He admitted to the use and acknowledged that it hurt me and agreed to stop using it. Unfortunately, all this really meant was that he would hide it better. He didn't stop. That is the thing about PA, there is so much secrecy and lies and withholding of information. I confronted him again months later, he admitted again, acknowledging this time that it was a problem and that he wanted it out of our lives. We wrote up a contract. Within months he had broken it. This tore my heart to pieces. Similar to lots of others, I dealt with the pain secretly. We wrote up another contract, this time including that if he relapsed he had to tell me within 48 hours. For months I brought it up on a semi-regular basis and he denied use, and reinforced his promises that he had made to me. After a while he started getting annoyed that I brought it up, and kept telling me it was a thing of the past and that I needed to let go and move on. So I stopped asking, feeling as though I was insulting him by asking. This was about a year and a half ago. Last month, something seemed off and I asked him if he had been back using porn. Turns out he had been back using for about 6 months. Even more secretly this time, only using his work laptop. The reason I am sharing all these details is not to be negative or to infer that your husband isn't keeping to his vow of being P free, but just to give you something to keep in mind as you work through this. My husband truly wanted to stop. He truly felt all he needed was willpower...and this willpower lasted a year. Through my journey with him and much reading about PA and the recovery journals here on TTF, it became apparent to me that strictly willpower NEVER works in the long run. In one of my journal posts I stated: "I feel like he could have stopped himself again if he truly wanted to"...and I got back a fantastic reply from one of the PA's here: "I have yet to see any PA manage to quit this on there own as it a deep battle in our own mind much like a drug addiction and one that we inevitably lose over and over again without help and support. If there is anyone out there who has please, please step forward and talk about it with us because there are many single guys here trying to go it alone and could sure use your help and us old timers wouldn't mind hearing it either!"

It is so important to have good communication and to get it all out on the table, no matter how hurtful it is to both of you. Maybe encourage him to take a look at some of the articles on TTF, or some of the SO journals. I've been sending my husband links to ones that I think will resonate with him, as I know he won't search through them himself. If you husband is serious about giving up P for the long run, he is going to need support. Willpower and wanting it to be so just isn't enough.

I hope that you find support and comfort here at TTF, I know that I did. Keep writing, and reading, and as Waterlily stated, take care of yourself during this process. Know that you are not alone and believe that your feelings and reactions are normal, despite what anyone may say about us "overreacting". Good luck Leeluu!

[JenMac]

Hi Leeluu,
I believe as you do that men do not 'need' this. They just tell themselves they do.
I also believe that they are feeding this 'need' in themselves.
Instead of relishing and fostering what they have, they are filling their minds with things that only lead them to more of the same.
It is a sad cycle and it does nothing for the man, the partner or the relationship.
Putting the same energies into their love life with their partner could have amazing returns if they put their minds to it.
Leeluu, I too searched the internet upon this discovery and found lots of conflicting opinions on the nature of this. It was only once I found TTF that I knew I had found where I belonged. Just because there are many on the internet that do not agree with my opinion about the destruction of P, doesn't mean that I feel I am wrong about this. I know for certain that my opinion is right for my situation, whether others agree or not. My H's counsellor actually told him that I was ahead of my time for feeling the way I do. That is because he believes that this is going to be a huge problem in the future, and most of the professionals didn't even see it coming.
So Leeluu, consider yourself ahead of your time too! Nothing good can come from P, but cheap thrills that in the end are not so cheap.
All the best!
Jenn

[Leeluu]

Right now the only thing I can think of to express how I am feeling is overwhelmed. I have a heavy weight on my heart and having a difficult time holding back tears. I feel like I can't express enough how grateful I am for the words of wisdom and support you guys are giving me about how I need to deal with this openly with him. It's just so hard for me to feel the right to do so.

If anyone has read my reply to what Foolishmind is going through, I would guess it would give some insight as to why I am having such a hard time doing so. I know just as well as anyone that holding all this in doesn't help me, my marriage or anything else, but I am having difficulty feeling like I have the right to feel what I am feeling.

I have told my husband that I feel like I deserve all this hurt and he has told me otherwise, that he got over the hurt I caused him and that I have every right to feel my pain. I just can't seem to allow myself to.

After the terrible fights we had over this, we did at least have one good conversation about it, however it was cut short as it was in the morning before leaving for work. He did give me permission to bring up what I was feeling as needed but I have a hard time doing so as I know how badly he deals with feelings of guilt.

I guess the other reason is that I just don't want to "rock the boat", things are going really well for us right now. I am starting to see the benefits of him not looking at P for just over a month. Even though I am really enjoying the changes I can't help but feel resentful toward them as well. For so long he made excuses for his lack of interest in being intimate with me. He was tired, stressed, that s*x wasnt' the most important thing in a marriage, compainionship was. Now I am seeing him have levels of interest that compare to the first few years of our relationship. It hurts more than I can express to think of just how much of his s*xuality was shared with other women on some degree.

I want to be grateful for the progress, I really do. I just can't help but be resentful for how affectionate he now is, or the fact he is finally actually hearing me again. Trying to help out around the house more. I feel like all this should have been happening automatically before, not just because he feels like he needs to make up for the hurt he caused, especially since I don't think he is even aware of how much I was hurt and how much I am still hurting. It just feels like damage control.

Ugh...my mind is such a jumbled mess right now, think I should stop writing as my thoughts are so scattered right now. I do love having a place to vent right now though, sharing all this with friends is just not an option for me. Some will think I am crazy for how I feel about it, some will think I am crazy for staying...its just if I take all this out of the equation, he really does rank with the best of men, aside from all this, I couldn't ask for a better husband...

[JenMac]

Hey Leeluu!
Rant away! This is your space to do just that! Getting it out can be so therapeutic! I found that for me, I was able to get my thoughts out and then by the end of the post I was usually able to turn my thoughts more toward the positive again. I see you are attempting to do that too.
It is important that you learn to discuss this openly with your H leeluu. It may not happen right away but hopefully with time that is where you will get to. I found it so much easier when we were dealing with this daily rather than hiding or dimissing our feelings for days and then having them all come rushing out at once.
I know you will be feeling all over the place at this time. That is what this experience does to us. It is very traumatic and so we respond in kind.
Leeluu, care for you. Decipher what it is you need at this time and speak up clearly for that. Make no apologies. What your marriage has been through in the past does not negate what you are feeling now. Speak to your feelings. My H now says that he is very thankful that I did just that. There was no room for error on his part when I told him what I needed from him. It is actually caring to both of you when you are open and honest but do it in a kind manner. When we hide our feelings, how is it possible to move forward to a better place?
Leeluu, not sure if your H will join us in the future but wanted to let you know that there is a couple's chat happening here tonight at 8 PM EST, if he would sit in with you. It may be a good way of letting him see that there are many couples here going through this together. And that is a wonderful thing!
Wishing you all the best Leeluu!
Jenn