filling blank spaces

[dottedlines]

I thought you read the articles.

the history indicates you didn't.

Yes, you read the email, but you didn't think the articles were worth your time, apparently.

I don't know whether to say something to you or not.

I worry for my heart, for all these ups and downs. Finding no more evidence on your android was an up. I was happier. Now seeing you don't give a shit about the articles, it's a down.

it makes it really hard for me keep my spirits up for you, for me.

It feels like I am in the space right now where I simply wait for the other effing shoe to drop.

And that's what I'm doing. This planning, this waiting. For whenever the next time is. Because somehow, the way I handled things this time doesn't seem to lend a hand for me pushing it now.

I dance in the gray.

we dance in the gray together. And usually this is a beautiful thing, but not with this.

For so long I've done internal work on my own, learning that I can't assume people can read my mind, that my own concerns and waht goes through my head isn't remotely what goes through others, so I can't hold them to my thoughts and feelings if I'm not willing to be explicit and frank about them.

But it feels to me you should clearly see there's an up and down of pain here and invite me to talk about it.

it hurts you didn't respond to the part in my email where I said:

"When you're done reading and ready, can we talk about it a little bit, please? So I know you've read it, and you know I love you and am trying to support, not react. It comes from how much the porn hurts me when I come across it, and I can describe for you how that feels if you are willing to hear."

Part of me thinks it's like you breezed right over the whole thing.

And part of me thinks men in general aren't talkers like we women are.

Part of me wonders if you just want it to be over with. that with every else in my life you will walk with me through the pain. But you won't on this.

You asked me 2 weeks ago what I wanted, after I cried to you in bed. I thought long and hard, then firmly stated I wanted total transparency. I wanted you to talk with me about the P, MB, etc if/when it comes up.

You agreed. You said it sounded reasonable.

And i wonder if, for a man, even if I'm generalizing, you don't realize th at means I need to talk about it more.

And I didn't tell you that clearly enough. Because I didn't know and I was afraid.

I'm too afraid to ask for what I want.

And now I'm crying as I write this, and you will be home soon, and once again I stuff my tears very quickly back inside my soul and bring them out again in small corners of the house where I can escape for 10 minutes to cry in a silent, tense burst.

I'm scared. I'm scared you won't fight for this, for us.

that I am not worth it to you.

that you love me, and you don't. That you are jekyl and hyde.

Once, long before you, I had an affair with a man who had a girlfriend. I asked him about that, how he could that (and in retrospect, how could I?). He told me he saw it as separate. It was a 'different' part of his life.

to this day I wonder if he married that woman and if she goes through an even worse hell than I'm going through now.

I wonder if you think keeping things separated is fine. that your choices are not my issues. at least when it comes to this.

In the gray I dance, between hopelessness and love.

it sucks.

[Charly22]

In the gray I dance, between hopelessness and love.

In the gray, I've said this before. I've felt it before. I still experience it. You words to him are very moving and greatly written. I can only hope that your continued stance on against this hurt and pain will move you out of that gray.......

[dottedlines]

It feels like if I post more here about what happened in these past 2 weeks, I won't forget.

So that if there's a next time, I have the memory.

I hate that, you know? Hate having to record this crap so I can throw it back against you when you try your toughest logical arguments against me.

SO let's remember how it went down.

My gut's been talking to me for months. You've been going to the bathroom more. At night I'm not sure if I'm paranoid/dreaming, but it seems you were/MB. Not to the computer or android, but on your own. I'd guess at least 2x a week. One morning I walked in on you doing it, and I said "here, let me do that" and you said "it's hard for me to get hard."

So when you were out on a saturday, I looked at your android.

In the videos, there were around 30 P videos.

Your internet history was 'clear'.

And my heart stopped. It stopped at seeing those. Some long, 30 minutes, some short, 2 minutes. I was too sick to view any. Nothing looked overly...deranged, but it doesn't matter.

I sat with this data for a good 3 days. I thought on it, and hid my pain from you. I wanted to come at you not in anger or drama, but with a calmness as much as I could muster.

And I did. I wrote it all out and approached you, and I cried a little but you know, I think I did well. I did my damndest to not make you feel like a craphead. To be compassionate.

I told you when you choose that, you are choosing separation from me, and it makes me feel I want to be separated from you.

You gently interrupted to begin crying. And to tell me you were viewing the P because you were having problems with ED. And yoyuwanted to see if somethign, anything, could help make it better. Self-medication, basically.

So I tried to be kind. I hugged you, I told you I loved you. that I didn't expect a full erection. You told me I couldn't understandh wo it feels to not be able to perform for me.

But the thing is, honey, a few days later you did. You did perform. I didn't see any issues. I didn't feel any.

I'm not saying you're lying. Only you know that area, and what's going on for you. But that was my experience.

A few days after i confronted you, we were on vacation. I cried one night. I felt rejected. You wouldn't talk to me.

You asked me what i wanted.

I said I wanted transparency about sx. ABout your desires/what was goign on with you.

And you agreed.

Here we are now, with you not reading what I send you.

And this all now is for my documentation. So later, when shit hits the fan, I can remember. How crappy it is to be here.

And how to better confront it at that time.

[RMH]

I couldn't have said it better myself. These are the exact thoughts I have towards my own SO.

[TooSensitive]

DL, it's not that I "like" what you're going through. I "like" how you have written it all out, in a moving way, as Charly has said.

Thx for reading my journal and for saying hi. I wanted to say hi back. I am so sorry you are having to go through the pain you are, but I am glad you found us here. B/c here can be that lifeline that saves us at times.

Gotta go, I was supposed to have signed off a bit ago. Much to do today. I will write more later. In the meantime, I hope you are somehow able to find moments of inner peace for yourself, though I know how difficult it can be to do that, when we are dealing with their PA/SA.

Please do what you can to take care of "you" this weekend. Talk to you next week.

[dottedlines]

TS, thank you for stopping by, for your kind words.

SOmeone on this board mentioned the journals help us get out emotions so we can approach our SOs with more calmness & clarity. So that's a big part of why I'm here, as well as to validate my experience to myself.

[JenMac]

HI Dottie,
I am still here encouraging you to continue on, continue on expecting your H to talk with you about all of this. Having said that, I can remember it was a process, it took time, it did not happen right away. There was stalling, there was downplaying, there was reluctance. That was all done for protection, I believe. Protecting himself and our marriage, in his mind.
When you speak about him not reading the articles, I remember 4 or 5 days after discovery I had found some interviews on the computer that I wanted my H to listen to with me. I remember his reluctance but he did it anyway, to appease me. (There was a lot of that in the beginning, as he hadn't come to the point yet where he 'got it'.) I remember the slow process of getting this all out there. I remember the pain and fear and heartache we both experienced. Those were tough times indeed. But little by little we chipped away at it, and little by little we began to heal. It was an almost constant dwelling in this. I say almost because there are just times when it is necessary to step away from it for a time. This dedication to this has seemed to put us in a good place moving forward. It is what worked for us. It may not work for everyone? I know that others have chosen to dedicate one night a week to discussing this, which they feel helps to prepare each for the tough talks. I am sure there are many different ways of handling this and each couple needs to find their own comfort zone.
But the one thing that I have learned from past experiences is to not just sweep it under the rug. That didn't help me then and it won't help me now.
You will find what is right for you Dot. You are kind and concerned and that is a very good basis to bring out the best in both of you.
All the best!
Jenn

[JenMac]

While I'm not there, I can relate to feeling that. I'm 32, and I feel like my 'time' for a different relationsihp has come and gone. Not saying I'm in a position where i want to leave mine--I don't. But somewhere in the back of my head, I have this figured out: "if I choose to leave at some point, I need to come to terms with choosing a life alone, and a life likely devoid of intimate connection until I die."



Just read what you wrote in another journal Dot.
Just had to say, oh my! 32? Your life is just beginning!
20 years your senior, and I believe I am in one of the best times in my life. (ok, 20 +!)
I know you are not at the point of leaving your marriage and that you believe it is worth fighting for and for that I commend you! But if the time comes that that is necessary, I certainly don't believe that you would be living a life 'devoid of intimate connection' until you die. Grief can be overwhelming but it fades over time.

Jenn

[Disillusioned]

Hi Dot,
Sorry you find yourself here, but am glad that you are taking time to post your hurt, confusion, and self-doubt. The self-doubt about your worth rings like a bell from the last post I read about your being 32 and facing a life alone if you leave your h. There is a lot of life left after 32, and you do not have to opt to be alone. Your self-esteem has taken one whale of a hit, and your self-confidence is at the bottom. Who in their right mind would prefer mb and pictures or videos to a living, loving, spouse? An addict. This is not about you and what you have to offer in a relationship. It is about a person who chose the wrong road, time after time.
It is a road of constant variety, which the P purveyors insist is a necessity to man. It is not. All men have lust, women too. We can feed it, or we can tame it. P feeds it till it grows bigger than the man himself. What happens is that the p, over-time, is needed to lift dopamine levels in the brain. The man becomes addicted to the high.
P is a lying seductress with a monster hiding inside. She is always available and with the internet, she reaches far and wide to ensnare her next victim. She has not conscience. She hungers. She is embraced by big business as they cannot resist the profits to be made. She wrecks our men, she destroys our relationships and families, and she seeks to grab our children in their innocence. Average age of first time exposure is 11. We have young men on our site who have never been with a real woman.
There are 14 types of rationalization and denial that are common among p users. They justify their behavior saying all men do this. All men don’t do this. Some take the higher road, Dottie. They compartmentalize their behavior and that is what you described in your husband. You and he have one compartment. He and p have another. It’s a lie.
You are married, so is he. Marriage is always a part of you if your attitude is correct. It is not something to be taken on and off depending on who you are with or where you are.

Mine wouldn’t read either, and it broke my heart. He would read the most banal titles and not read what I had begged him to look at. I went through many packs of yellow highlighter underlining the parts of books I asked him to read. I’d beg, blow up, give up.
If he finally would read, he might underline in pen, one or two sentences that struck him, in the whole book.

He said I obsessed. If I could just let this go, we could be happy again. Truth is he never treated me very well, and after almost 40 years, this was the icing on the cake.

Our men become like lab rats, Dottie. Scientists implanted electrodes to the pleasure centers in their brains. A lever in their cage could be pressed to deliver a stimulating shock to the electrodes, and the rats hit that lever over and over and over again. Eventually, they lost interest in all else, but he lever, refusing food or a receptive female.

This is only the tip of the iceberg that is the monstrosity called P. While it is destroying the positive feelings you have for your h and your marriage, you have to understand what it is. The only thing that helped my h was postings on here, that I copied and printed and left for him to look at. I’d find them here and there, not given much importance at first.
Eventually, he saw my feelings were not unique and outdated. Eventually from reading here, he saw that many other women were just as hurt as I was. Eventually he saw that the way he had treated me for years was cruel. He changed.

Jenn says it is a process, and it is. It hurts terribly when they just don’t turn it off and realize that what they have in a loving partner is worth far more than the acting and posing and lies of p. Sometimes men have to hit bottom to find out they must pick the long way back to the higher road. Sometimes they lose jobs, marriages, money…just to push that lever. When they wake up, sometimes there is no longer anyone around invested in caring for them anymore.

Below are the list of 14 denial methods most p users use. I printed them up for my h, long ago. He saw himself in one. I took it back and gave him verbal examples of 13 of the 14 he had used in arguing that this wasn’t so bad. He woke up, but the devastation this has caused has left scars. Still, I believe that I am happy to be with him. I am grateful for sunshine instead of darkness. This honestly, just about killed me, Dottie.
I didn’t find TTF till I was about out of all energy and so depressed.

God bless you on your journey through this pain. There are many here who have walked the same way and understand.
disillusioned

[Disillusioned]

[h=2]14 types of denial[/h]

Someone referred to this post (from 6/10) today.
I thought it might be helpful cut and paste it, so we newbies don't need to dig for it.
I found it very enlightening and helpful.


Checklist: 14 types of denial

1. Global Thinking
This is attempting to justify something with absolute terms like “always” or “never” or “whatsoever”. It also can be something along the lines of “every guy does this”.

2. Rationalization
This is justifying unacceptable behavior saying things like “I don’t have a problem, I’m just sexually liberated”, or “You’re crazy”, or “I can go months without this, so I don’t have a problem”. Rationalization is telling yourself Rational Lies.

3. Minimizing
This is trying to make behavior or consequences seem smaller or less important than they are saying things like “only a little”, or “only once in a while”, or “it’s no big deal”, or simply telling the story in a better light than it really should be.

4. Comparison
This is shifting focus to someone else to justify behaviors such as “I’m not as bad as…”.

5. Uniqueness
This is thinking you are different or special saying things like “My situation is different” or “I was hurt more” or “That’s fine for you, but I’m too busy”. This one can also be considered Entitlement.

6. Distraction (Avoiding by creating an uproar or distraction)
This is being a clown and getting everyone laughing, having angry outbursts meant to frighten or intimidate others, threats and posturing, and doing shocking behavior that may even be sexual. This can be when we simply blow up upon being confronted hoping that our explosion will draw attention rather than the actual issue.

7. Avoiding by Omission
This is trying to change the subject, ignore the subject, or manipulate the conversation to avoid talking about something. It is also leaving out important bits of information like the fact that the lover is underage, or the person is a close friend of your spouse, or revealing enough information while keeping back the most “dangerous” information that will get you in more trouble.

8. Blaming
This is when you shift blame and responsibility from yourself to another person, and many times this is done unconsciously since in the depth of our being we really don’t want to be held responsible for something. I call this the Adam Syndrome as this is what Adam did in the Garden (Genesis 3) by wrongly blaming Eve for his rebellion. This includes, “Well, you would cruise all night, too, if you had my job”, or “If my spouse weren’t so cold…” or “I can’t help it, the baby cries day and night and makes me nervous”.

9. Intellectualizing
This is avoiding feelings and responsibility by thinking or by asking why. This person tries to explain everything getting lost in detail, rabbit trails, and/or storytelling. This often includes pretending superior intellect and using intelligence as a weapon.

10. Victim Mentality (Hopelessness/Helplessness)
This is where a person says, “I’m a victim”, or “I can’t help it”, or “There is nothing I can do to get better” or “I’m the worst”.

11. Manipulative behavior
This usually involves some distortion of reality including the use of power, lies, secrets, or guilt to exploit others.

12. Compartmentalizing
This is something that almost every addict does. This is separating your life into compartments in which you do things that you keep separate from other parts of your life. This is like a Jekyll and Hyde or a separation of Public and Private life to the point where it is unhealthy driven by thoughts of “If they only knew, then…”.

13. Crazymaking
This occurs when we are confronted by others who DO have a correct perception… we simply tell them that they are totally wrong. We act indignantly toward them attempting to make them feel crazy by simply positing that they cannot trust their own perceptions.

14. Seduction
This is the use of charm, humor, good looks, or helpfulness to gain sexual access and cover up insincerity.