Just when I think I'm getting stronger...

[dawn1952]

So here is my first journal entry. I thought I was doing better than I am. But I discovered I'm still just as obsessed, just as addicted to my addict as ever.

I went 10 days without looking at his internet history. 10 days. That's great for me. I usually can't go a day. But I looked, I just looked and now I'm crying. (Why do I do it to myself?) He has been on every single day for hours at a time. He couldn't wait to get on within minutes of getting home after work at night, he couldn't stay off it for more than an hour or two all weekend long. He's killing me.

And I see it and I tell myself I'm outta here, I'm leaving him, I've had it... but I don't go. Why don't I go? When will I see that I CAN take care of myself? What is it that I am so afraid of? Being alone? At this point, being alone sounds great. I just don't know what to do any more. I'm just so sick and tired of wanting him and needing him -- and he doesn't want or need me.

If it's that simple for him to have sex with himself and his fantasies, then why can't I just leave him to it?

I know that I feel like a failure. I feel like, here I go again, failing at another relationship. I'm 59 years old, God knows if I'll ever find someone I can be with again. At this point, I don't trust any man. I don't want to feel that way, because I know not all men are PA's. But I feel so ripped off! I feel like this man misrepresented himself to me, made me think he was such a good lover, so much fun, so sexy -- and he loved me! I don't think he really knows what love is. I'm not even sure I do any more.

I'm so tired of crying. And having to pretend and keep a brave face in front of him because, if I don't it'll start a fight. He KNOWS why I'm sad! He KNOWS what he's doing that's hurting me and crushing my spirit. He just doesn't care. He feels justified.

The images don't leave me. And they're GROSS! Most of the women aren't even pretty. Some are ugly. Some are even chubby (but he claims I need to lose weight because he can't work with someone like me.) He searches for "curvy sexy women". Curvy. I'M curvy! He pulls up close-ups of ****** and I look in amazement -- not only does it look disgusting to me (and I'm NOT a prude!) but I HAVE THAT! He's never seen it.

I must be crazy. I must be nuts. I keep holding on, hoping he'll change. Hoping he'll come around to wanting me, desiring me, not ever looking at these images again. But I know that's not going to happen. It's not. My therapist tells me he's NOT going to change, that I'm co-dependent, addicted to him. I'm addicted and hopeful, which isn't a good combination for me. I keep thinking that, if only I'd lose weight, he'd want me over them. But I know it's not gonna happen!!!! The only thing I can think is that he's crazy. He's nuts. He's nuts if he thinks I'm going to stay here forever and put up with this.

I spent the last 2 years jobless and so depressed I didn't care if I lived or died. I couldn't leave because I didn't have any money and I was too depressed to work on my business, so it was failing. I became totally dependent on him. BUT I was blessed because I realized that I'd forgotten to take a deduction on my tax return last year; once I took it, I got enough of a tax return that I now have savings in the bank. I don't have to turn into a pile of mush when he threatens to break up with me (because he thought I was "different", because it's obvious I can't take it... take what? His PA! which he refuses to give up.) He WILL NOT go into recovery. Yet, of course, the co-dependent me hopes that, if (I want to say "when" but I'm still scared) I leave him, he'll finally see the error of his ways and go into recovery.

He was married before. His wife suddenly up and left him according to him. No warning, no explanation. Well, people don't change that much. And he's said he's been looking at porn all his life. I know she left him for the same reason I'm leaving him. He didn't change then, how can I expect him to change now? Obviously, I'm not worth the effort.

[BrokenHeartedAgain]

Dawn,

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I can completely relate to your post. My H has used for our entire relationship over 18 years and was an addict before I even met him. I think why I stay is because the scars this PA create for us are glaringly inward not outward not seen by everyone around us and not seen even by ourselves. They are inside of us.. they start small and grow bigger and bigger. Eventually the scars show on the outside of us.. but for them they appear "normal" to everyone. They are the likeable, fun guys that people for the most part would never suspect have a PA.

I am really struggling this time around. I asked all the same questions you asked... Why he never looked at me the way he looked at the P. Why no videos or pictures of us? It's not like we wouldn't do it for our H's right???. Even though part of me wished he would have explored that with me and not gone outside our marriage, I know that even if he had.. it probably would not have been healthy because of the objectification.

Right now I have ZERO answers as I am struggling too. I can only offer my support and encourage you to do something for yourself every single day. Know that you are a wonderful, caring person that deserves better. Journaling here is a great help. The women here are wonderful and caring. It's like we are all make a bridge for each other while one is down the others are here to help us get over that bridge even if it's for that one hour or that day. We are here for you.

big hugs.

[JenMac]

So here is my first journal entry. I thought I was doing better than I am. But I discovered I'm still just as obsessed, just as addicted to my addict as ever.

I went 10 days without looking at his internet history. 10 days. That's great for me. I usually can't go a day. But I looked, I just looked and now I'm crying. (Why do I do it to myself?) He has been on every single day for hours at a time. He couldn't wait to get on within minutes of getting home after work at night, he couldn't stay off it for more than an hour or two all weekend long. He's killing me.

And I see it and I tell myself I'm outta here, I'm leaving him, I've had it... but I don't go. Why don't I go? When will I see that I CAN take care of myself? What is it that I am so afraid of? Being alone? At this point, being alone sounds great. I just don't know what to do any more. I'm just so sick and tired of wanting him and needing him -- and he doesn't want or need me.

If it's that simple for him to have sex with himself and his fantasies, then why can't I just leave him to it?

I know that I feel like a failure. I feel like, here I go again, failing at another relationship. I'm 59 years old, God knows if I'll ever find someone I can be with again. At this point, I don't trust any man. I don't want to feel that way, because I know not all men are PA's. But I feel so ripped off! I feel like this man misrepresented himself to me, made me think he was such a good lover, so much fun, so sexy -- and he loved me! I don't think he really knows what love is. I'm not even sure I do any more.

I'm so tired of crying. And having to pretend and keep a brave face in front of him because, if I don't it'll start a fight. He KNOWS why I'm sad! He KNOWS what he's doing that's hurting me and crushing my spirit. He just doesn't care. He feels justified.

The images don't leave me. And they're GROSS! Most of the women aren't even pretty. Some are ugly. Some are even chubby (but he claims I need to lose weight because he can't work with someone like me.) He searches for "curvy sexy women". Curvy. I'M curvy! He pulls up close-ups of ****** and I look in amazement -- not only does it look disgusting to me (and I'm NOT a prude!) but I HAVE THAT! He's never seen it.

I must be crazy. I must be nuts. I keep holding on, hoping he'll change. Hoping he'll come around to wanting me, desiring me, not ever looking at these images again. But I know that's not going to happen. It's not. My therapist tells me he's NOT going to change, that I'm co-dependent, addicted to him. I'm addicted and hopeful, which isn't a good combination for me. I keep thinking that, if only I'd lose weight, he'd want me over them. But I know it's not gonna happen!!!! The only thing I can think is that he's crazy. He's nuts. He's nuts if he thinks I'm going to stay here forever and put up with this.

I spent the last 2 years jobless and so depressed I didn't care if I lived or died. I couldn't leave because I didn't have any money and I was too depressed to work on my business, so it was failing. I became totally dependent on him. BUT I was blessed because I realized that I'd forgotten to take a deduction on my tax return last year; once I took it, I got enough of a tax return that I now have savings in the bank. I don't have to turn into a pile of mush when he threatens to break up with me (because he thought I was "different", because it's obvious I can't take it... take what? His PA! which he refuses to give up.) He WILL NOT go into recovery. Yet, of course, the co-dependent me hopes that, if (I want to say "when" but I'm still scared) I leave him, he'll finally see the error of his ways and go into recovery.

He was married before. His wife suddenly up and left him according to him. No warning, no explanation. Well, people don't change that much. And he's said he's been looking at porn all his life. I know she left him for the same reason I'm leaving him. He didn't change then, how can I expect him to change now? Obviously, I'm not worth the effort.

HI Dawn!
Welcome to your journal!
I am sorry that you are struggling so much right now. There are many of us here who have been compelled to search and search and search some more. Fortunately for me, I wasn't very good at it. You are right when you say those images will stay with you. I realized with what I did find that this was not a good place for me to be. And so I chose to stop searching. I had to force myself but I did it and I haven't gone back to it. There is nothing to be gained for me to put myself there. It is really cruel and unusual punishment.
As long as our Hs are in the P addiction mode, we really can't compete at all with that. They are in a bad place. There is nothing we can do or say or give that will compete with what they are into. I refuse to compete. I told my H if I was not enough for him, then perhaps he was not enough for me. I didn't say it to be mean Dawn, it was just how I felt. You see, I deserve to be in a relationship where I feel safe, cherished and loved. I can't feel that with P in the picture and I refuse to settle for anything less! I would sooner be on my own that to live with P in my life, plain and simple.
Build your strength Dawn! And if you need an exercise buddy let me know! I am bad at following through with that too!
All the best!
Jenn

[Disillusioned]

"I must be crazy. I must be nuts. I keep holding on, hoping he'll change. Hoping he'll come around to wanting me, desiring me, not ever looking at these images again. But I know that's not going to happen. It's not. My therapist tells me he's NOT going to change, that I'm co-dependent, addicted to him. I'm addicted and hopeful, which isn't a good combination for me. I keep thinking that, if only I'd lose weight, he'd want me over them. But I know it's not gonna happen!!!! The only thing I can think is that he's crazy. He's nuts. He's nuts if he thinks I'm going to stay here forever and put up with this." quote from Dawn

Hi again, Dawn. I might be writing from a place called "Co-Addiction Is Us," but there is something that occurred to me regarding your partner. He might not be able to physically be with a woman anymore. If you read some of the brain changes that occur in the brain of the PA, you will see that that really does happen. PAs are great at blaming everyone else, as in your case, your PA is blaming your figure.

I saw a cartoon hanging in the pharmacy where we used to shop. It showed a group of elderly women looking at the stuff in a lingerie shop. One elderly, chubby woman picked up a garment to purchase. Her shocked girlfriend was aghast, "Why in the world would you buy something like that? You aren't going to look like the model in the picture." Her smart purchaser friend said with confidence, "Yes, but I will be the only naked girl in the room!" The only naked lady in the room has a strong advantage over her more well proportioned and better endowed counterparts.

Try Dr. Donald Hilton's article on the changes that occur in the p addicted mind. I'm not sure that is where I have read it, but I've come across it often enough to believe it is not just one person saying this. One of the late down sides of a PA, is that he can no longer physically be intimate with a real, live woman. Sad. Even more sad is that his p stuff is infecting our young people, and some of our young men cannot ever relate physically, let alone emotionally, with a real live woman.
Get out of that shared space, get exercising and meeting people. Network to find an exercise partner and see who you meet when out. It might lead to a job and a move away from this guy, which is the only place you need to go till he comes around...but something you have to do FOR YOU. You did not promise for better or worse, but you sure got "Worse!" Do it for Dawn, and you will find something absolutely amazing. You will like Dawn, you will have a new respect for her. You will not feel like a loser. You do not have to have love and romance in your life. Until you feel better about you, and think with more clarity, all the men coming your way are going to be the same. It's like what Mom called the paperbag. If we throw the man we are with into a paper bag, where other women have thrown the men they can't make it with, and you shake up the bag really thoroughly, if you put your hand in and pull out another one , SURPRISE, even if he has a different name, job, and appearance, it will be the same thing you put in. THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.
What I have advised is tough. I won't fault you on not doing it. Fault finding is not the name of the game at TTF.
You are not carrying the extra responsibility of children, a mortgage, loving in-laws, etc. It's about you, and your need to take care of you. Dawn, anything you decide is right. It's not up to me, and I will not be the least offended if you go about this a different way.
God bless and strengthen you in your struggle.
disillusioned

[dawn1952]

Well, I'm still here, so that's good. I've been trying to not think about him all day. I'm just cleaning my office, organizing things, and working on my business. So far, so good except I DO think about him all the time -- or at least I'm thinking about what he's been up to.

I hate it that every time I head toward my office I have to pass his. Do you know how hard that is to not walk right in and look at his computer? But I remember how I felt when I looked yesterday. I felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach. I don't want to feel that way today.

Knowing what he does is a sucker-punch to my self esteem. It just obliterates it. But this morning something else occurred to me, something even more vital to me: as much as I don't believe him when he says he doesn't like 20-year-olds and he doesn't compare me to them (of course he says it's because, "at my age" he's not expecting that! jerk...), I know I can't compare myself to them at all. A lot of them are airbrushed perfection. And, last night I was looking at the websites of local plastic surgeons (yes, I've considered getting liposuction and/or a tummy tuck! don't know if I ever will) and I saw the procedures they do. It's amazing! Breast implants that make them "perky". Butt implants that make that perky, too. Labiaplasty -- it made me wonder how many of those perky things he loves so much has had that done. Caps, veneers in their mouth. Lip plumping, botox, you name it. Fake. It's fake.

Which makes me feel somewhat better. I mean, when I was 20 I'm told I was a knockout (of course, at 19 I would have gotten breast implants if my insurance covered it. I was down on myself, even then.) I guess I've had my "day." But I'm also told I'm beautiful now -- by others, not him. I look 10 years younger than my age. Men half my age practically sprain their necks looking at me. All this, and I've never had an implant, a "plasty", or a plumping. Not bad I say.

But, back to what I realized: more than feeling like I don't measure up, I feel dirtied somehow. I mean, sex is dirty now. He's managed to take something so intimate, so special, so private between a man and a woman who are supposed to be committed to and to love each other and he's cut it down to "just sex". Now, maybe I'm just a naive romantic, I don't know. But, to me, breaking women's bodies down into "parts" takes away the reason for making love. I don't want to "make love" with him any more. I don't even want to "have sex."

His PA has made me look at other human beings as sex objects. Sex objects! I never thought I'd think that way. I can't get his stupid images out of my head. I can't get over being angry most of the time. I find I'm thinking about people naked instead of thinking about the whole person and what they're even saying to me! So, of course, I'm jealous and insecure (he says he hates my insecurity, but he's not taking responsibility for being part of the reason I am!). Every woman is competition because I know that, in his mind, he's thinking about their various "body parts." It makes me sick.

So, today I'd have to say that he's made sex dirty now. He's made it so dirty and meaningless that I don't have any desire to have it. Maybe I'll get over it some day. Just not sure it'll ever be with him even if he DID want it someday.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

Hi Dawn,

I don't understand why you are in this relationship. He doesn't want to change and makes you feel so depressed and dirty you don't even recoginize yourself. Perhaps you can let us know what works in this relationship? In what ways is this relationship good for you, good for him, and good for you together? Its helpful to us and to you to try and give a more complete picture. Sometimes you discover things you didn't know just by typing it out.

I hate to see anyone feeling so down and heartbroken because of another person. I hope you find your way to healing.

[stillandagain]

Hi, Dawn,

Its hard to read your words. I have experienced them. I have felt them. You will find support here, from folks who have gone through this, are going through this. Our stories are not exactly the same, how could they be, but we are similar enough, we have experienced this rollercoaster of emotion, heartache, fear, and, yes, hope. I am glad you are here, sharing openly, getting stuff OUT that you have stuffed inside!

[waterlily327]

Hey Dawn! I am glad you have started a journal. I hope you find it as therapeutic as I have. I relate all too well to the crushed self esteem. That, plus the ups and downs of the journey, have been the most difficult parts for me. From what I have seen, the addiction has nothing to do with you, I, or any other SO here…no matter how beautiful, loving, amazing we are and strong individual women, it isn’t enough when our BF/H’s are trapped in the hold of the addiction. As Stillandagain said, though our stories are not identical, we have all been through the heartache and have been able to find common ground here on TTF through healing.

I believe you wrote earlier (maybe in your welcome thread?) that you were working on becoming financially and emotionally stable enough to leave him if he will not change. Most likely, you will have a lot of ups and downs through this time. Please remember to put yourself, you needs, and your health first. If he isn’t willing to change, I can tell you that nothing you do or say will change his actions. If he is going to change, he needs to want it. If he doesn’t want to change, then you need to work with your support groups to get yourself in a healthy enough place to move on and better yourself, because no matter how much you care about him, he seems to have no thoughts about hurting you over and over again with his actions. I wish you all the best, and hope your recovery is successful and healthy!

[dawn1952]

[QUOTE=JenMac;67377]

I refuse to compete. I told my H if I was not enough for him, then perhaps he was not enough for me. I didn't say it to be mean Dawn, it was just how I felt. You see, I deserve to be in a relationship where I feel safe, cherished and loved. I can't feel that with P in the picture and I refuse to settle for anything less! I would sooner be on my own that to live with P in my life, plain and simple.

I feel the same way. I read in another post about how PA's might be acting out trauma from other parts of their lives and they learned, early on, to use P as a way to cope. As much as I think that's my partner's reason (he hints at having had a miserable childhood but has never really told me much about it), I had the example of my parents' marriage to show me that there are men that will make their partners feel "safe, cherished and loved." Yes, I realize that I was a kid most of the time when I was around them and that no relationship's perfect. I saw them fight once in a while and I'm sure they probably fought more when I wasn't around to see. But my dad cherished my mother and made her feel precious to him.

With this as my example, I ask myself "am I living in a fairy tale world?" "Is my hoping for someone to love me -- I mean really, really love me, warts and all -- as much of a fantasy as his P use?" All I know is that I crave to be valued and, although I know he loves and values me as much as he's capable of, I'm discovering that it's just not enough for me to want to keep going with him. I also know that I don't want to go off on my own hoping for prince charming to come into the picture either. I want to go out into the world being whole in myself and strong. That way, if prince charming comes along, great. If not, I love myself enough to be happy.

Build your strength Dawn! And if you need an exercise buddy let me know!

I'd love to chat with you and be your exercise buddy. PM me when you can and let me know when's a good time. (Thanks.)

[dawn1952]

I've been thinking about WifeofNewLifeMan's question:

I don't understand why you are in this relationship. He doesn't want to change and makes you feel so depressed and dirty you don't even recoginize yourself. Perhaps you can let us know what works in this relationship? In what ways is this relationship good for you, good for him, and good for you together?

Still sorting out the answer, I think. But this is what I feel/think at this point:

1. What works:

He's affectionate and loving to me -- except when I dare to bring up his P.

He shares what he has -- his money, his home (he just bought it, I have bad credit from my past marriage so I can't yet), things like that. Since I'm not financially together right now, it gives me a certain security that I won't be living on the street, I guess. Of course, I used to love him (now I'm not sure) and just being with him was enough. But I'm starting to feel like his nice house is almost a part of his manipulation now. Can't put my finger on it... I'll have to think about this more.

He's a decent companion, better than being alone I guess. Although a lot of what he does is starting to grate on my nerves (when he doesn't clean up after himself, his almost absolute control of the tv, things like that.)

What else? Not sure... more thinking...

2. How is this relationship good for me, for him, and for us together?

Hmmm... I think it started out being good for me in some ways, but I really didn't see the red flags -- or maybe I ignored them. At this point, I don't think it's good for me at all but I'm scared to get out. Like I told my therapist -- I'm just not ready yet. Yet. I'm getting stronger all the time.

My therapist always says she can't tell me to leave him BUT... But I know she's really telling me that it's time to move on. He has OCD, he may have Asperger's so I'm feeling sorry for him, maybe. I'm thinking it's really not his fault. His dad was an a*#, his mom never stood up for him. It sounds like he's always been sickly and his family told him he was just lazy. I'm sure he developed a cocoon of P from a very early age. Maybe these women became his comfort, his support.

That's why when he yells at me that they make him happy, I cringe. When he laughs at me and says "they're not real!!!!" I cry. I truly believe that, to him, these women ARE real. (And really they are to me too because I think it's cheating.) All the sweet and sexy things he said to me when he was courting me and trying to impress, on his best behavior, were fake. They weren't meant for me at all. They were meant for the fantasy images he holds in his head -- always.

I'm digressing, but I think I know where I'm going...

Last night, I was reading a thread about whether or not P was cheating. It truly made me sad because it touched on everything I'm feeling and everything I want to just go away. I know, in my heart, that P IS cheating. It just is.

As he was leaving for work this morning, he asked me if I'm going anywhere today. I cringed because 1) it triggers all the sadness in me and 2) I know why he's asking. When I didn't mention going out tonight he looked so dejected and then he asked "aren't you going to your therapist tonight?" (I wouldn't NEED therapy if it wasn't for you, a***hole!) He looked so relieved when I said yes and I know that's because he's already planning tonight's MB session at 7am in the morning! He's already got those girls -- the ones he looked at last night -- in his head and knows just who he's going to use to get off. I can't run away from him tonight fast enough. At least that's how part of me feels. The other part wants to stay home so he can't MB (although that won't stop him from looking. It never does.)

My therapist told me that all the sweet, sexy things he said to me were never meant for me. They weren't about me. "Do you understand that?" she asked. Theoretically, I do. I mean, I know he's sick and that, obviously, from looking at his computer I can see that the minute he gets home from work to the time he either goes to bed or determines he's finally "bored" he's looking, surfing women in rapid succession (and lingering a few minutes on some, which kills me. I really have to stop looking!) But I guess I fooled myself into thinking that he really had these feelings for me. Not that I want to be objectified! But I foolishly thought we were going to have a healthy sexuality TOGETHER. I thought, here is a man who's so intelligent (I found his mind so sexy) and so sexy... I looked forward to being with him and spending my life with him and it never crossed my mind that the sexy things he was saying were because -- especially when we lived 300 miles apart -- he was feeding his fantasy sexuality with fantasies of ME! Once the real me showed up, suddenly I'm a threat to his "sexuality" (he calls his P his sexuality.) I became totally separate from his sexual expression and he's kept me that way.

No matter how much he claims that we WILL as he calls it "get together," I don't believe him. He's predicated it on me losing weight and becoming his "body type." He's blamed the fact that I'm always fighting with him on why he doesn't want to. He picks fights with me or looks for problems so he can blame me for fighting with him and loves to tell me that, if we weren't fighting so much, we'd have "gotten together" already!

I truly believe he has no plans to "get together" with me at all. For some reason (and I take responsibility for my part in this) he seemed to think that he'd found a really sexy lady who would 1) be fine with him looking at P and MB every day and 2) would even want to look with him. He thought I would be totally supportive of it for some reason (I'm not sure what I did to make him think that. More soul searching...)

He also discovered that there are buttons he can push with me that will make me feel so bad about myself that he can always be "on top." He has HUGE issues with being controlled (according to him and his therapist) -- so he found me and started in, beating me down. Then he controls ME before I can control him. I really think that's how his mind works.

I have been really rambling this time (sorry.) I'm just riding the roller coaster. Maybe when I see my therapist tonight she can help me sort things out better.