Just when I think I'm getting stronger...

[TooSensitive]

Dawn, my heart goes out to you. I feel for you. I have felt all those same emotions; and I have done the compulsive “checking”, too. At some point, I knew I didn’t need to find anything else, b/c I already had enough evidence to know that my h had a problem. And his problem was affecting me far too negatively.

I had to pull myself out of his world to some degree, and back into my own. I had to stop focusing on him and only focus on myself for awhile. If my h had been sincerely working his recovery, I would not have had to focus so much on myself as I felt the need to do. But my h was not giving me anything with which to work, as far as our relationship, so I had no choice, if I was going to survive.

What helped me to restore my self-esteem and a belief in myself again was to focus on my inner beauty. I stopped worrying about how I looked on the outside; I stopped comparing myself in terms of my appearance to others. Though I’ve since started getting my hair colored again every so often, I went about 6 months without. I did not feel self-conscious about my gray roots, and I had a need to be that real for awhile. When I focused on my inner beauty and on re-developing that, I knew there was no comparison between me and the others. And if my h couldn’t see that, then we had no business being together.

If you get a chance, try researching an on-line article about the Stockholm Syndrome. It explains much as far as when women remain with abusive men. Abuse comes in other forms besides physical. It may help you understand why you have stayed as long as you have, despite his behaviors.

Just please know that yes, healing takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work – but healing is possible, when that is what we decide we truly want for ourselves. And we can heal with or without them being fully on board with us. You will get there, esp. if you keep coming here.

[dawn1952]

I don't know what to do. I'm so depressed I don't want to do anything. Here I am, trying to start a business so I can take care of myself and I'm cancelling appointments with people who might help me, I don't want to talk to anyone because I'm afraid I'll start crying. I'm working with a fitness trainer to get healthy and I don't exercise or eat right because it takes too much effort (even though I know exercise would help.)

I think I know why I'm not taking care of my body. It's pretty clear to me that I'm rebelling against him. I don't want to look good for him and I know I need to look good for myself, because I want to. But this depression is making me feel like I just don't give a cr#% at all. I stop and start, stop and start depending on whether I'm having a "good" day or a "bad" day. Today's a bad day. I want to blow everything sky high. I want to just crawl into bed and check out. I want to call my mom (who knows what's going on) but I don't want to just cry. I want to run away. Quit working. Resign from my responsibilities, other peoples' expectations (like being co-chair of the native plant garden -- I don't want to see anyone! Why would I want to do some volunteer cr*% -- I don't feel it!!!!)

I'm just plain sad today. All that keeps me going is that tomorrow might be one of my less-bad days.

[TooSensitive]

I have bipolar, on top of being a partner!!! Depression is my unintentional, against-my-will go-to, when things get bad for me.

When I was at my worst with my depression last year, and then again earlier this year, I gave myself down time when I could and when I felt it was what I needed; but I also coupled that with literally forcing myself to do things I used to enjoy but no longer did. It took a few months, but eventually, I began to find those lost parts of myself, and I began to enjoy doing those things again.

I know the experience of having suicidal thoughts and tendencies; and I know the experience of several actual attempts. I don't know if you are spiritual or religious, but I now believe it is not our choice to make when we go. I also know how bad the pain can get, to the point where it feels as if there is only one way out.

But when we settle down, we realize that there are several ways out, and suicide is not one of those ways we should be considering. If you cannot use your own worth at this time, then look outside yourself to your loved ones, such as your mother, and recognize the devastation she would feel in the aftermath.

I don't know if you are experiencing suicidal tendencies or if you are actually giving it hard thought, and hard enough to take action. I never take it lightly, b/c not only do I know people who have been successful in their attempts, I also know how close I've come myself to not only being successful, but also, in making more attempts. Please use whomever you must in your life to help you avoid doing such a thing. But I do totally understand your feelings, b/c in the past, I have had those too, and far too often while trying to deal with my h.

Just please know that despite his words and his behaviors, you ARE worthwhile, even if you don't yet realize that. Please do your best not to isolate, even though I know that when we are in the throes of that intense emotional pain, it feels as if we can do nothing else.

On my worst days, I have had to give myself credit for the simple things that others probably take for granted when they do them and give them no thought. In efforts to build myself up, on my worst days, I had to give myself credit for taking a shower, or for getting out of bed, or for answering the phone, or for replying to an e-mail. On my worst days, I could only find one of those things for which to give myself credit. But I started out small with those simple little things, and I built myself up from there, one small step, one moment, and one day at a time. And I had to learn to stop beating myself up for my bad days; and I had to learn how to forgive myself for those, too.

I fought back hard against the depression, b/c I made a decision that the depression was not going to totally define me, and the depression was only one small part of me. I was not going to allow my h to dictate my emotions all the time, either. I used to think that if my h saw my depression, that he would "get" how much pain he had caused me, b/c my depression was nearly always triggered by him and his behaviors. But the depression hurts me more than anyone. And in fighting for my own life, I had to pull myself up by the bootstraps, as they say; and I had to give myself a good kick in the pants. B/c I decided that I was going to win - not the depression, and not the PA/SA.

I hope you make those same choices, Dawn. For me, it's not that I will never again have depression. I still do some days. But I am learning how to avoid my depression consuming me the way it once was. It nearly ate me alive, as did my h's addiction. But no more. B/c I am worth it - and so are you.

[dawn1952]

I hope others will forgive me for not responding to their posts and their pain. I just feel bad today and don't have it in me to try and help others. I don't know if anything I could say could come close to helping anyways.

I just send my love and prayers to everyone and I hope we all find peace.

[Charly22]

I
My therapist told me that all the sweet, sexy things he said to me were never meant for me. They weren't about me. "Do you understand that?" she asked.

I don't know why, but this really bothers me, that your therapist can determine this, and say it so confidently to you. Does this therapist have sessions with your partner? Has this therapist got to know your partner?

While I know all this pa addiction stuff ruins everything for us, it doesn't mean that your partner didn't in fact have these real moments with you. One thing I have learned, is that p addiction has nothing to do with me, or you, or the wife or girlfriend. And while the pa is pretty good at seperating it all, compartmentalizing I think I've heard it called, there is real reasons why this man chose to have you in his life.

I'm sorry, but I find this comment from your therapist to be wrong.....

Just like you are able to say that you hope he will love you, warts and all....it's the same for a pa, just cause he has this fault, does not mean his is not a human being capable of being attracted to you, capable of finding you appealing, capable of loving you. PA smothers all that though, I know this to be true. Your partners sounds like he is truly lost in this addiction, and its' gonna take a lot of effort and struggle to get him to see. His emotions are buried. He will need to be broken down emotionally. Something will have to shatter that wall, and fling him into reality.

But I hate to think that any sweet comment he ever made to you was not about you, and had nothing to do with you.

Forgive me for not being able to understand how your therapist can say that to you......

I wonder how many pa's here, who have began recovery, would be able to admit that any sweet nothings whispered in their wife's ear before they began recovery was all bs....anyone care to explain?

[dawn1952]

I'm thinking that today I just don't want to dwell on it. I've been thinking about it so much lately that I've been an emotional mess. I haven't been working. I've cancelled appointments because I just don't want to see anyone. I've been pulling away from him BIG time because it's like I see him as some sort of monster now. A dirty old man. Creepy. When he kisses me, I wipe my mouth with my hand (he sees it and I can tell he feels bad). It's like I'm wiping him away.

It's not that I'm not thinking about it, of course. It's always in me. And last night when I was at the therapist's, I know he was having a high time doing what he loves best. I get home and he's up, he greets me when I come in the door, but then about 10 minutes later he's tired and goes to bed. Perfunctory kiss and hug good night. He looks sad. Really, really sad. Even this morning he looks sad. I know he knows I'm considering ending this. I know he must feel me pulling away every single day and he probably doesn't understand. How could he? All he feels are his OWN needs, his own wants. His addiction. His selfishness. He only knows what HE wants and really doesn't care about what I want or need. (He'd argue otherwise, but deep down he must know it's true -- he'd rather get what he wants and do what he wants than open his heart and risk getting hurt by me.) And that's a problem: he doesn't trust. And now I'm starting to not trust, too.

I'm supposed to be preparing myself to leave. According to my therapist, he's never going to change. He's hard-wired this way. He's been doing it so long, it's a part of him. That scares me so much because I look at him and, when I'm not thinking about what he does that disgusts me and hurts me, I love him so much. I'm attracted to him so strongly. I want and I need him. My therapist would tell me I'm just co-dependent, addicted to him. And maybe I am. But it's all I know right now. And the thought of leaving makes me afraid and full of despair. I wonder: am I making the right decision by leaving? will I be alone the rest of my life? did I try hard enough? Maybe I really haven't tried to understand, maybe I really am a prude -- all of those things run through my head and more. I told her I'm not ready yet. She said she understands and that she's not supposed to tell me to leave, it's really my choice, but I can tell that she sees it hurting me so much that all she wants is me to be healthy and get away from the things that are making me sick. After all, she is MY doctor. Her main concern is me, she only "knows" my partner by the things I tell her. (And that makes me question: am I blowing this out of proportion? See how I question myself?)

She also suggested I go away for a couple of weeks, somewhere quiet and away from him where I can think. I'd like that, I just don't know how to go about it I guess. It's something I'll look into. It's hard to get that focused "me time" when I'm in his house because all I can think of is how it really is "his house" (he bought it, not me; he pays all the bills, too). I can only think about what he does in "his room" and how it's escalated since we moved here and he can look even when I'm in the next room and I can't see his computer screen.

I do take responsibility for my part, though. And I know I could get yelled at here, but I haven't lost weight and I am 50 lbs overweight. I tell people I'm only 30, but I lie. I put on 20 lbs from taking Celexa last year and I haven't been able to stay focused enough to get it back off. I know people have the right to be attracted and to not be attracted to certain "looks." He doesn't happen to like fat women. He loves me, he loves my personality and the way we "click" as friends and companions, but he just doesn't want to have s*x with me. Okay, I get it.

I also take responsibility for nagging him about his P use. I can't help but think that, if I hadn't nagged him, if I'd never told him it hurts me, if I could have been secure enough in myself to NOT let it drive my already low self-esteem further into the ground, we wouldn't be in this position. If I could have been more confident that I AM worth it, I don't think he'd be looking at P so much, if at all. Seriously. Now maybe I'm deluding myself when I say that, because it's pretty obvious he's addicted. But there are people here who have kicked the habit, I have to have faith that it's possible. And I know he has to want it, but I also have to take responsibility for my part in this. If I hadn't been such a needy, weak, emotional mess all this time, he might not have escalated into this "monster" I see him as. P might not have been as important, as vital to him. I truly believe that I reacted in the completely wrong way if I wanted to get good results and that, had I ignored it and felt good about myself, he wouldn't be as frantic to "get off" all the time to relieve the anxiety he's feeling.

So, am I making excuses for him? Probably. Do I take too much responsibility? Probably, too and I always have. But I know that I bear some responsibility for what's happening. It's all in the actions and the reactions -- and I've reacted poorly. I've reacted in a way that's not flattering to myself. I think that's one of my big issues with this situation, too. His P addiction has affected me so much that it's reduced me to a shrew! A nag. Something I never thought I'd be, never wanted to be.

My pattern has always been to run away. I ran away from home when I was 17, I ran away from the east coast to the west coast at 24. I ran away from my son's father, my daughter's father. And now I'm looking at the very real possibility that I'll run away from this. I don't want to run any more. I want to stand and fight. Or at least give it my all before I call it quits (I never felt I tried hard enough before, didn't give things a chance to work out.) I guess that's a big reason why I stick around. That, and I do believe he loves me (as much as he knows how). And he's sick. Not that I need to be sick, too. But somehow I have to figure out how to be well amidst his sickness. Maybe some of my healing will rub off on him, too.

I at least have to try.

[dawn1952]

[QUOTE=Charly22;67641]

I don't know why, but this really bothers me, that your therapist can determine this, and say it so confidently to you. Does this therapist have sessions with your partner? Has this therapist got to know your partner?

First of all, I want to send you a really big hug, Charly. Thank you for this.

I really don't believe everything my therapist tells me. I mean, she's just human too and, although I know she's looking out for me, I try to take her suggestions with a grain of salt. When she said that all the sweet things he said to me weren't for me, it kind of made sense but I don't know why. I can't put my finger on it. Maybe I just want to be p*ss#d at him. Maybe I want to believe he never felt those things because the idea that he might not feel them any more (and it's my fault because of the nagging, insecure shrew I've become) is more than I can bear.

Do I believe he meant the things he said? I want to. And I guess I do. Sometimes I get afraid he only looked at me as another one of his computer girlfriends at first, like I wasn't really real. But we were together in person every weekend and we'd go home to our separate places and he STILL said those things to me. I do believe he loves me.

While I know all this pa addiction stuff ruins everything for us, it doesn't mean that your partner didn't in fact have these real moments with you... while the pa is pretty good at seperating it all, compartmentalizing I think I've heard it called, there is real reasons why this man chose to have you in his life.

He told me once that, if we didn't fight all the time, we'd have had s*x already. He's said it several times. I asked him what he meant by that. I asked him if he really means it. He said that the love he feels for me would have overcome any of the "I'm not his body type" feelings. That makes me happy to hear and it makes me sad. I'm happy because it proves he does want me; I'm sad because, like I said in today's journal entry, I've become a shrew, a b*t*h over this. Because of that, I may have delayed -- or even done away with any chance of having intimacy with him because now neither of us trust.

Just like you are able to say that you hope he will love you, warts and all....it's the same for a pa, just cause he has this fault, does not mean his is not a human being capable of being attracted to you, capable of finding you appealing, capable of loving you. PA smothers all that though, I know this to be true. Your partners sounds like he is truly lost in this addiction, and its' gonna take a lot of effort and struggle to get him to see. His emotions are buried. He will need to be broken down emotionally. Something will have to shatter that wall, and fling him into reality.

I believe he IS lost. I also believe he needs me as much as I need him. My therapist (here I go again) would look at that as a bad thing. Like we're addicted to each other and should get away from this sick relationship. But I think needing each other can also be healthy. Why can't I admit that I "need" someone? Why does that have to be bad? I love him. I need him in my life. That's that.

As far as breaking him down emotionally, I just don't know how to do that. And it's not in my nature to hurt someone, especially on purpose. I don't know how to break him down without risking our relationship. I don't know how to break down a man who's already been broken down time and time again all his life. How do I do that? Does anyone have suggestions?

But I hate to think that any sweet comment he ever made to you was not about you, and had nothing to do with you. Forgive me for not being able to understand how your therapist can say that to you......

Thanks, Charly. Me, too.

I wonder how many pa's here, who have began recovery, would be able to admit that any sweet nothings whispered in their wife's ear before they began recovery was all bs....anyone care to explain?

I'd like to know, too.

[cvanden]

*sigh* My heart truly goes out to you. I'd just like you to keep in mind that you can't fight for this relationship on your own. If he doesn't want to change, he won't. This burden you are carrying is way to heavy for one person to bare.

Frankly this statement makes me angry, "If I hadn't been such a needy, weak, emotional mess all this time, he might not have escalated into this "monster"

Sweetie, I know it is hard to see when you are immersed in his world and feeling so dependent. I know the pain of wanting something deeper, more intimate, needing with every fiber of your being to be loved and cherished. I know what it is to cling to every kind word, soft touch and the good moments to get through the pain.

Here are some truths that I've discovered on my journey:

* His addiction is not your fault. This has likely been going on for YEARS for reasons totally unrelated to you or any other woman.

* Your weight doesn't make you less worthy of love and respect. BOTTOM LINE. Getting healthy for "you" will feel great. Holding up your end of the "deal" as you mentioned at one point is just one of his excuses. It is just a way to deflect responsibility from himself and to exert control. Its mean and unacceptable.

* You are capable. You are worth it. You are beautiful. Your feelings are valid.

Keep taking steps to take care of yourself.

Sending much love and support,
Colleen

[dawn1952]

I just looked at his computer. I've been telling myself not to, but I guess this is my own form of acting out.

He's been acting funny lately. I kept thinking he was "down". Maybe he feels me pulling away and he's depressed because he knows I'm getting closer to thinking about leaving. OR (my suspicious mind tells me) -- maybe he's (having an affair, chatting up women on the internet, on Match.com -- which I saw in his history a couple of weeks ago.) See? I don't trust him. (And that's a big part of both of our problems -- we don't trust.)

I expected to see P big time. But what I saw actually blows me away. First I looked in his favorite web browser, the one he usually uses where I can see when and how long. Nothing since Tuesday. Then I looked in his second favorite browser -- nothing since last week. Okay, that's only one day he didn't look but he also didn't look one other day this week. Should I hope?

That doesn't mean he didn't pull out some of his old favorite videos, though (see, the ugly suspicious monster that's me rears its ugly head!) Maybe he's getting bored? Maybe he's not feeling great? Or maybe seeing me pulling away and not giving him my usual and expected reaction (freaking out) is making it not as "fun" any more? I'm not dancing the dance and he's starting to worry. (This morning, he said he didn't sleep well last night. When I asked him if he's worrying about something, he said "I don't know." I think I do know and I think he's feeling things changing and he's getting upset.)

Will he go back to it? Has it left? (I doubt it!) Yes, I believe he'll be looking again and not too long from now. Today, maybe, when he gets home. But any time I see that he hasn't been looking at P makes me feel just a little bit hopeful that maybe I'm getting through to him. At least that's what I pray for.

[dawn1952]

[QUOTE=cvanden;67650]

*sigh* My heart truly goes out to you. I'd just like you to keep in mind that you can't fight for this relationship on your own. If he doesn't want to change, he won't. This burden you are carrying is way to heavy for one person to bare.

Thanks, Colleen. You're so right. I can't do it alone. I guess that's why I'm here, I see a therapist, and I'm doing a 12-step program. I'm reaching out. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. I'm really glad I found TTF -- it's been a life-saver. It's helped me sort out my thoughts so much better than I ever thought I could in just a few days' time.

Frankly this statement makes me angry, "If I hadn't been such a needy, weak, emotional mess all this time, he might not have escalated into this "monster"

Sorry. Theoretically, I know it's not my fault. But the little girl in me feels like I must have done something wrong. Working on that.

Sweetie, I know it is hard to see when you are immersed in his world and feeling so dependent. I know the pain of wanting something deeper, more intimate, needing with every fiber of your being to be loved and cherished. I know what it is to cling to every kind word, soft touch and the good moments to get through the pain.

Like even now. I see that he hasn't looked at P yesterday and I take it as a kindness! I analyze it, like maybe this is some kind of breakthrough. I am so wrapped up in him that I've given away my power and I want to get it back!

* Your weight doesn't make you less worthy of love and respect. BOTTOM LINE. Getting healthy for "you" will feel great. Holding up your end of the "deal" as you mentioned at one point is just one of his excuses. It is just a way to deflect responsibility from himself and to exert control. Its mean and unacceptable.

I know it. Now to put it into action, not easy when I've been so depressed. But I'm going to get there.

Thanks!