Starting the journey

[stillandagain]

Why "guilty"?

It sounds like you were taking care of yourself!
It also sounds like he is working on making changes.
It sounds like you are working together.

So, why the guilt?

[champagnesuppanova]

Why "guilty"?

It sounds like you were taking care of yourself!
It also sounds like he is working on making changes.
It sounds like you are working together.

So, why the guilt?

Thank you for your post Stillandagain.

I felt guilty because he doesn't know that I go through his browser history - his computer is password protected. He bought a new computer at the end of January and the first thing he did was password protect it and then install a key-logger (he doesn't know that I know about the key-logger).

We don't really have open lines of communication about his PA. It's like the elephant in the room. He is still watching P, and at the moment I am coping with that because I am seeing these other changes and because he made the admission to me last week.

We aren't really working together. I am on here, but he isn't. I haven't talked to him about his PA since his admission last week. I'm still trying to work out how to broach the subject again. I've written a letter but haven't given it to him.

So the guilt is because I am snooping at his computer when he thinks I can't. There isn't much openness and trust there really!!

[stillandagain]

ahhhhh . . . I get it.

and I hope it helped you to articulate it.
just saying stuff here helps me, and reading from others does too.

you have come a long way and have miles to go . . .

Blessings for your journey.
My prayer is that you find a way to journey together
AND that you take care of yourself along the way.

[TooSensitive]

C, your b/f and my h are reminiscent of one another in so many ways. The lack of self-esteem; the trauma of losing a parent in childhood; the sexual trauma (though my h was a child when he was abused). The things about my personality that attracted my h to me were the same things he later felt jealous of, that made him feel inadequate, and further, he went to great lengths to destroy those things in me (my self-esteem, my social ease, my ability to let my hair down, my belief in myself, to name a few). He succeeded for a time, but in my healing, I’ve gained a lot of the old but good parts of myself back. That is the danger in staying with an addict who is not in recovery – the potential of losing parts of ourselves that we never wanted to lose, like our own self-esteem, for starters.

I have read your entire journal, C. It is like reliving parts of my own past with my h. And there are parts of it that still remain a part of my life today, unfortunately.

I think you should keep it in your back pocket about your knowing how to get into your b/f’s computer and check things. I know it’s backhanded and dishonest; but I feel we need all the weapons we can get our hands on when doing battle with this. It is how you will know whether or not he is lying in the future. If you confront him and he lies about it, you won’t have to back down, b/c you will already have the proof you need; you just don’t have to produce that proof to him. But you can use it to see whether or not he will tell you the truth, if he does something you find you need to confront him about. He’s making himself accountable to you in this way, even though he has no idea he’s done so.

If things go well, he gets into recovery, and you get to a point where you feel you can trust him again – b/c he has worked to gain back your trust – then you can tell him. I just don’t think it’s wise to reveal all our secrets to them, as far as how we are able to find out certain things. We need to keep that edge, instead of giving that edge away to them. If they know how we find out what they do, it allows them to find a way around it in the future. This is the position in which they place us, all b/c of their lying and their behaviors. I think in the early days, we do find it necessary to “check”, at least part of the time. I believe this is what we all do in the beginning, and even occasionally down the road, depending. So long as doing so isn’t consuming you, nor consuming your days, and does not become an obsession, I feel it can be reassuring for us. Or, enlightening, depending.

I think you should keep posting your heart out here, as much as you need to do. Don’t worry about your posts being too revealing or too long (my posts are often long!). There are other partners here who have struggled with eating disorders in the past, so you are not alone there, either. Though I never “purged”, I went through a long period of time when I literally stopped eating. I lost so much weight. I was so stressed out and constantly feeling so emotionally distraught about my h’s behaviors, that I stopped eating. If I had a slice of pizza or half a sandwich from the time I woke up ‘til the time I went to sleep, that was a lot. It wasn’t healthy, but I just couldn’t eat. Besides the fact that when I did eat, I often became physically ill anyway (nausea, abdominal pain, or the food would run right through me, if you know what I mean). The constant stress put my digestive tract in an upheaval. I am not sure if I lost my appetite first, which then caused me to get sick; or if I started getting sick first, which then caused me to lose my appetite.

I hope you find healing for yourself, C. This is like a rollercoaster. In fact, the title of a journal I had kept on a different message board had the word “rollercoaster” in it! May you find inner peace, healing, and happiness for yourself. Just please don’t lose sight of “you” through all this.

[champagnesuppanova]

I've just written a post and deleted it. I feel like I need to write something, but I don't know what. Perhaps what I need to write is that I am confused at the moment. Things at home are calm. I am calm. He has been open and caring and loving and it is as though he has been seeking a special connection with me. I almost felt as though he was trying to make up for something but I don't know what. He was interested in me, complimentary and wanted lots of hugs and close time. I loved spending time with him.

I feel a little "posted-out" at the moment. It's easy to write stuff when the emotions are running high because there are easily identifiable things to vent. But when things are good, when I am not spun out, when he seems focused on his life in the real world rather than in the computer, then there seems not so much to write about.

TS - I am grateful for your post. It has given me a lot to think about. I am trying to take care of myself. I have started going back to horse-riding recently - a sport that I love and have been doing for the last 20 years or so. Going back to that has given me time to myself doing something I am successful at on my own. It makes me feel sane working with horses - reading the personalities through their body language is like reading an open book to me. I find it refreshing to see an animal offer itself out there so freely when what PA tends to do is to take a part of someone's life and turn it into a secret.

The openness and honesty is what I hope to achieve with my BF. But how we get there I don't know. I just hope that in time he will talk to me again as he has done before and know that I will not judge him, will not be angry. When he talks to me I feel relief more than anything - relief that he has found himself feeling safe enough to trust me with his hopes and fears.

Now I feel calm. It is the weekend. Things slow down a little for me over these two days. I shall try to relax and simply enjoy the time.

[maggie]

Dear Champagne...

Again... I am so moved by your kindness, gentleness and your determined effort to help your partner....instead of lashing out at him in anger...as I have many times.

You are a gem!! ( Deep down inside he knows this, but it will take a while for him to recognize you as the ' gift ' you are.)

I don't want to encourage you to stay in this relationship... tolerating all of this hurt...if you believe that P is his mindset and his conscious choice.

If it is all just a part of some sickness, a destructive path gone astray... and you have a solid core of understanding that can overcome the hurt...then I want to support you Champagne. You have written about so many things he has done for you that really speak of his love and appreciation for you and what you believe in.

It's the lunacy of this p thing. It is so out of the realm of reality in any loving relationship built on trust.
I know that you see this.... but he is obviously still struggling.

Your effort and understanding of this complex ' problem ' is admirable...

That's all. NO answers here !!

Maggie

[Hopeful]

Hi Champagne,

I wanted to comment on this part of your post...

I felt guilty because he doesn't know that I go through his browser history - his computer is password protected. He bought a new computer at the end of January and the first thing he did was password protect it and then install a key-logger (he doesn't know that I know about the key-logger).

I know how hard it is to not feel guilty when you are "checking" but it is something you need to do for yourself. As time goes by and you start to find nothing...the need to check goes away but I feel that it is a defense mechanism for us to make sure that we are not being taking advantage of again. That's all...you do what you need to do until you feel that sense of trust starting to come back. It does take time for it to come back and it certainly is gradual but remember...we are here because of their actions and behaviors so there is no reason to feel bad about making sure they are being honest with us.

[champagnesuppanova]

It has been a while since I last posted, partly because of the site being down, partly because I haven't really had time alone infront of a computer.

A lot has happened while the site was down in terms of my emotions going up and down. Things people have said and done. I suppose nothing really outstanding, but when you are searching for meaning and understanding in everything that happens, then the littlest things suddenly seem to take on the most significance.

First, Maggie, thank you for your supportive and positive post. Sometimes I feel like I am not really coping with everything, literally just living from hour to hour while my brain is a pile of jelly. It all seems too much to process sometimes. I have to just let those moments wash over me and away until I find a moment that I can cope with, then I grab the feeling of strength and try to run with it for as long as possible.

At the moment, I am finding it hard. We have not been intimate for over a week. When we have been out together socialising with friends, he has been very close to me seeking hugs and kisses and I think things are good and going well. And then we get back to the flat and he makes a bee-line for his laptop and all physical contact is withdrawn. It isn't even as though he watching P at those times, it's as though the computer just takes over. As though he is deliberately avoiding closeness with me when we are alone because he doesn't want to get drawn into intimacy, whereas when we are out, he can be close with me because there is no danger of physicaly intimacy whilst we are in company.

I find that hard to cope with. The sense of rejection is overwhelming alot of the time when he is like that.

On Saturday evening, I went to bed before he did. He said he wouldn't be long. 2 hours later I was awoken by him getting food from the kitchen. I knew what he had been doing. Didn't need to ask. I was so angry at him for being selfish. Saturday we had been 4 days without intimacy. We used to have such fun in bed together. And then he uses P to satisfy himself and I am left wanting. And now it is Thursday. A further 4 days have passed and with each passing day my sense of feeling unattractive and rejected grows stronger.

And yet, in parrallel with this, he has said some wonderful things to me. Told me I am a beautiful woman and that he loves my body and loves to see it naked. We had a pretty open conversation over the Easter Weekend after Saturday night. I was upset and it was clear to him. He also knew why I was upset. I wasn't prepared to let it go and pushed the conversation because this feels so important to me. We can't keep ignoring it like the elephant in the room. So I explained to him that knowing what he had done made me feel hurt and rejected and unattractive. I explained that I feel I can't compete with the super-enhanced airbrushed models on the screen and that it is hard to know that he finds those images good to look at.

He told me I am not competing with them. That I am so much more than them, that I am real, flesh and blood and that he loves me. That helped, but it doesn't solve the problem. But at least we had some open dialogue about the issue which was not emotionally charged or argumentative or screaming and shouting but was calm and measured and balanced. I just hope that he sees that I am prepared to talk about it in a way that doesn't involve blame and accusation.

Today I have had to come to work very early leaving him alone in the flat. I am worried what he will do while I am gone. Yesterday morning, I made it plain that I wanted him when we woke up. He didn't want me. He said he was sorry. He promised he wouldn't MSB until he had given me what I wanted. I don't know if he will remember that promise while he is home alone today. I hope he does and I hope he keeps it. I feel bad, but I am very very sceptical that he will keep that promise.

I am so tired today. It is tiring feeling so negative about yourself all the time when those feelings are created by the actions of another person. It is so hard to counter-act those negative feelings and emotions with positive ones when the main source of positivity is just yourself.

And so I have made a point of remembering and hanging on to all those wonderful, loving, kind and gentle things that he says to me and does for me. I make an effort to try to remember those things so that I can remind myself what he feels for me and that this issue, the P, is an abberation, a problem, a sickness that we are BOTH trying to terms with and deal with. We may not be on the same page yet. But I feel as though perhaps we are getting a little closer.

And behind all of this, I am still coming to terms with his previous infidelity. And I remember a post I put up on another SO journal the other week about how it is important to separate these issues so that they don't overwhelm us. But it is hard to do sometimes. Every day I will have at least one image of him with another woman flash through my mind. It is painful when it happens, but I am growing used to it and the images come less often and less vividly than they used to. But they still come. And I still worry that he will stray again and hurt me again. At the moment it is 8 months to the day that we got back together. In our first relationship, it was 8 months to the day that he dumped me. I am scared he will do that to me again. I am scared history will repeat itself. I have tried to tell him that I am scared and that I need some reassurance at the moment. I don't know if he took me seriously or just put it down to me "thinking too much". Which is what he says I do.

I feel lost. As though I am trying to find myself. Having lost so much weight it is as though I don't see myself when I look in the mirror anymore. I don't know who I am at the moment. I don't know what clothes to buy or how to wear them. I am fumbling in the dark and I feel as though I have no one here to help me. And when I don't even know who I am, it is hard to think positively about myself. It is hard to believe that he finds me attractive and beautiful when he continuously returns to those images of the perfect women on the screen.

This is going to be a tough day. But I have to work and I will keep my head up for that and just get on with it. Put my face on and cope. That's all I can do right now.

[champagnesuppanova]

I've been out of the office to an appointment and it gave me some thinking space. I have come to the following conclusions:

- I have forgiven him for his infidelity
- I have not and cannot forget his infidelity
- forgiveness and forgetting are two very different things
- I have not forgiven myself for what I feel was my part/fault for his infidelity

I know this isn't exactly about P and MSB, but it is still a huge part of what I am having to cope with and I need to write about it. I did manage to talk to him about a week ago and tell him that I haven't forgiven myself for what he did. I don't know if he really understood the massive impact that what he did has had on me or its lasing effects. His response was to say that I didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't feel I was at fault and then the conversation moved onto something else. But I still can't let it go.

I think that I need him to take the responsibility from me because at the moment I am still mentally punishing myself for what he did. Even though logically I know it was his decision and his actions, emotionally I feel as though I could have been more aware of the signs of what was happening, could have been less nieve. Could have taken the decision not to accept what I suspected was going on but refused to believe. And I am still carrying this massive weight of guilt around with me. Every day I feel it pulling at me. And I can't release myself from it. I think it is because whilst he apologised at the time for what he did, I need him to come back and revisit his actions in the cold light of day and to hear and understand what it is still putting me through. Then I need him to apologise for THAT and to take on that responsibility so that I can be released from it. In a way, I need him to forgive me. Weird I know. I can't explain it any other way. It's bit like when you go to the supermarket and you buy more than you can carry but you're determined to get it all home yourself in one go and so you struggle under the burden of what you have decided to take on but you won't ask for help. The only way you can be released from the burden is if someone else comes along and remvoes it from you. That's the best I can come up with.

I hate what all this thinking does to me. I wish I didn't think so much. I long to be able to relax and be calm and get rid of the stress. Sometimes I feel like a walking human pressure cooker, just about supressing everything that is going on underneath.

I wish I could tell him all the things that I write here. But I am scared to tell him because I am worried he will think I am a complete fruitloop and too much trouble to be with. It's ludicrous.

But we have a lovely weekend away coming up. just us and the dogs. No computers, no distractions. I know he will be able to give me the intimacy that I am craving right now. Roll on tomorrow.

[Charly22]

I wish I could tell him all the things that I write here. But I am scared to tell him because I am worried he will think I am a complete fruitloop and too much trouble to be with. It's ludicrous.
.

I encourage you to share with him what you write here. Maybe one day, you can let him know that you want to "talk" and you can ask him to read......you might not get the instant reaction you would desire, but it can only be beneficial to getting the both of you on the same page eventually.

Fear is false.

Squash it!