Hope, Renewal, & Inner Peace (SO)

[TooSensitive]

Hope, Renewal, & Inner Peace (SO)

Hello! Brand new here, but not brand new to healing and recovery. I am also a transplant from NP Support, but I am an SO/Partner. I haven’t noticed any of the other partners here yet (been reading along the past few days to warm up to the transition), but I have seen some of the RAs here already. It’s inspiring to know there are some who refuse to give up the fight for themselves, finding new avenues, when the old ones are no longer available. Yes, we all hope that our other board is up and running again, but that remains to be seen. Regardless, it is good to expand one’s horizons and venture out into new territory. I’ve always firmly believed that everything happens for a reason. Change is hard, but change can be good. (paragraph copied from my New Member post)

A little bit about me and my situation. My h is an SA/PA who is not currently in any recovery of which I am aware. First d-day was Jan. 2008. It took me quite a few months, with the help of my own therapist, who encouraged I do some on-line research, before the light bulbs began to come on, and I realized with what I was dealing. I was in therapy b/c I recognized that I had slipped into a depression again, not realizing until some months later that the trigger for this was situational and was a direct result of my h’s behaviors and ill treatment of me, which came as a surprise and caught me off guard, after having been treated so well up to that point. My h and I then did several months of therapy, alternating between individual sessions for each of us and couple’s sessions together, but due to finances, we had to stop for a time. We each got back into our own forms of individual recovery in Feb. 2009, which involved separate therapy sessions, SA meetings for him, and mood disorder support group meetings for me (I have bipolar, which doesn’t help!). I had also found NPSupport and became actively involved there, posting frequently and journaling not only there, but also privately at times. My h was never very interested in visiting there nor in writing out his innermost thoughts and struggles, let alone sharing those with me during conversation. He had become more of a stranger to me than ever, and in many ways, he still is that stranger.

Once again, due to finances, we had to stop all therapy; neither of us has been since late summer 2010. It will probably be several more months before we can resume. In the meantime, he has also stopped going to meetings, and he was never one to use much in the way of tools otherwise (such as visiting and posting on a message board). Reading books was always done sporadically and never with any consistency. Same with RN and everything else. Once he had to stop therapy, everything else recovery-related came to a screeching halt as well. Despite, I have seen some progress in not only him, but also in our marriage. Yet there remains so much from our past together that has never been addressed, and therefore, never resolved. Trust remains elusive, even in the absence of any new lies. Emotional intimacy remains elusive as well, b/c our communication is not as open as it should be. His SA has become an elephant in the room most of the time. I feel we need the help of a professional to finish picking up the pieces and putting things completely back together again. In the meantime, we get along fairly well, managing the household as a team, working through crises together, and enjoying time spent together nonetheless. But our past does continue to haunt us, and it seems it haunts me far more than it haunts my h. I feel he would rather avoid dealing with that and just let it stay under the rug where it has been swept, indefinitely. I am not perfectly content with the way things are, even if he is.

I have never stopped visiting and posting on the other board (except when it’s been down). I still go to my support group weekly and am heavily involved, being one of their facilitators, treasurer, administrator, etc. Giving back is but one of many things which has helped me re-establish my identity outside my marriage, as well as re-establish my self-esteem. Helping others helps me, too. I also journal regularly, stay in touch with family and friends, spending time with them when possible, write short stories, and dabble in photography. I tend to get out more during the warmer months and hibernate more during the winter months, as most people do. I have learned to like my own company again and view my time alone as solitude, rather than isolation. Isolation only happens when I intentionally avoid others, which I haven’t done for some time now. And I’ve only done it in the past when I’ve been feeling severely depressed.

I am doing very well emotionally and have managed to remain on a somewhat even keel most of the time as of late, though that was preceded by several years of anguish, devastation, and intense hurt and pain, on top of my depression. But my marriage is stuck in many respects and further healing will be necessary at some point. I feel my h still struggles with many aspects of denial, and b/c he is usually resistant to anything I mention, there would be no point in my even mentioning this site to him. He was never very interested in the other board, either. It makes me sad to think about, b/c there is so much offered that he could use to help himself, which would in turn help me, as well as us. I just don’t think he sees or feels the need. And God forbid, it might just help form more of a connection between us, if he and I were on the same site. Sometimes it seems as though he does what he can to keep distance between us in certain respects, esp. when it comes to recovery. All along, he has been resistant to sharing his recovery with me, to the point he has made me feel as though it is none of my business. What started out as secrecy about his addiction has transformed into secrecy about his recovery, too. IMO, that is indicative of someone who is not working his recovery right.

As well as I am doing now, I still have days of struggling – who doesn’t? I do my best to get through those on my own, or at least without h’s help. I rarely tell him of my struggles, b/c he seems uncomfortable knowing what those are. Even though he tells me I shouldn’t have to get through anything alone, I still feel he’d rather not know and just have me do what I must to get through whatever it is on my own. He’s never been one to share his struggles with me, either. He acts as though he has none. I used to share all my struggles with him, but he has used my vulnerabilities against me in the past, and the fear is still there that he will do so again. So it is not easy for me to open up to him these days, esp. when it concerns his SA, and everything that is lacking in our relationship, that I would like to see improve. I know there are tie-ins, but I’m unclear as to how much of what is lacking is due to his SA, and how much of it is due to just who he has become as a person otherwise. I think due to some tragic things that happened in his past, even w/o the SA, he still would have become dysfunctional anyway, in all the ways he is. I think the SA is just one more dysfunctional way of coping, though in reality, he doesn’t cope with anything at all. His way of coping is to avoid and escape. The SA provides an easy avenue of escape for him. I think his SA feeds off all the other dysfunction; and all the other dysfunction is further exacerbated by the SA. I don’t think SA ever exists w/o all the other dysfunction too; but I do know that all the other dysfunction can exist within a person w/o the SA being present.

My h seems to be sober most of the time as of late; but I really don’t know to what level. I don’t know if he a/o when we’re not together. I don’t know how often he struggles within his own mind to avoid the wrong type of thoughts about another woman. I only know what I know b/c of what I’ve seen him do with my own eyes or found out he was doing behind my back on my own. He’s never bothered to give me disclosure; he’s never learned how to share with me in an open and honest way; he’s never learned how to be transparent. Though I’ve asked, he’s never admitted to me how deep his addiction runs, nor how well or how poorly his recovery was going, when he was still actively pursuing that. In hindsight, it seems he was simply going through the motions to appease me, in an effort to keep me in his life. There’s so much he should have learned during that time that it seems he never did. He’s never learned how to be fully honest with me; he’s never given me the entire truth. There are such gaping holes in everything, and some days it does get to me. I often place a lot of focus upon myself, but when you’re married, you can only do so much of that, when your relationship remains in tatters in so many respects, and you’re still trying your best to hold that together.

[Aloevera]

Hi TS
I read your intro the other day and today thought I would say hello because reading it again today I became aware of why I found it difficult to stop in and say hello the first time.

Your situation is what I am afraid of happening to me, ie the elephant in the room.
At least now I know there is an elephant with us, I knew there was something wrong for many years (does at least 5 count as many?), maybe not, lets say a few years and I want the elephant if not gone, then at least down to mouse size and the sooner the better.
Thank you for sharing and I hope we will meet more here in TTF land.
Best
AV

[TooSensitive]

Thx for stopping by, AV. I have not posted anything new the past few days b/c my thoughts have been scattered and all over the place. I hesitate to post some replies I have put together in Word for just that reason.

I read about half of your journal and will eventually read the rest.

I understand your fear and I think it is wonderful that you are aware of this. So long as GH and you are able to maintain an open line of communication and discuss what needs to be discussed, I think you will do fine.

The elephants in the room are what are doing in my marriage. I am now as shutdown as he has always been. It doesn't help matters when I say to him, "I am quitting real estate" and he says nothing at all in return. No reaction, no response. Zip. Nada. I may as well be talking to the wall.

When we recognize our fears and face those, that is what helps eradicate them in turn. Can you talk to GH about this fear? Ask for his help in making sure your fear never becomes a reality? It does take both people to make sure there are no elephants in the room. It can't always be one and not the other doing the work, either.

Elephants remain in our rooms b/c I got tired of always being the one trying to make sure there were none, or that they were at least minimal.

[Charly22]

The hardest part for me in all of this is the communication. I understand how it feels to be faced with him not wanting to communicate about it. Yet, that is one of the highest priorities in all of this. And then, knowing what both will be faced with when the real communication does finally start. Its like one of the pa's said in his journal "removing the bandage, only to find a festering wound that needs even more attention".

I am glad to read that you are feeling better and stronger emotionally. That so makes my heart smile when reading it.

[TooSensitive]

Thx for your support, Charly. There is so much I am trying to sort out right now. The earlier part of this week, I was actually not doing too well. Started to bounce back yesterday and feel even better today. This journey has been quite the rollercoaster ride, as it is for all partners. Sometimes I can go long stretches where I sit atop the hill, feeling well; but it is inevitable, it seems, that I cannot remain there forever, and I begin the descent down again.

Whereas in the past few years of dealing with this, once I hit bottom, I would stay there for weeks on end, that would sometimes stretch into months; now when I hit bottom, I usually only stay there for a couple of days. The intensity of the pain is not nearly so great as it once was. Though my thoughts are not good, snowball, and overwhelm me, the devastation I suffer when I’m down there is more tolerable now, than it was before, even as recently as last year. Sometimes my despair is huge, and I cry relentlessly; but those bouts are becoming less and less. I am somehow learning how to deal with my pain and manage that much better when it hits. Yet I cannot prevent it from coming back at some point in time. There are still many triggers that remain. Some of those do run deep. Others are not so bad as before.

Disclosure is still a big one for me. I’ve never been given disclosure, and the main reason for that, as explained to me by my h, was due to his SA group and sponsor telling him not to. He was told he was not ready to give it to me, and I was not ready to hear it. What did they know about me? They’d never even met me. I am friends with my h’s sponsor’s wife, and even she was given full disclosure just 3 months after her discovery of her h’s behaviors. What made his sponsor think I needed to wait for over a year for that? It has been nearly 2 years since h first began going to those meetings; it has been 8 months since he stopped going. So though no one is breathing down his neck any longer about avoiding disclosure, he still hasn’t given that to me; but I’ve also long since stopped asking for it. I am not so sure I still want to hear it, b/c I don’t want to risk my wellbeing. Though I’ve still got a long way to go, I’ve done so much work on myself already, and I am not willing to throw that out the window, all for the sake of hearing his disclosure. Yet if I don’t, I don’t know how he and I could remain together. I feel it is the only way I will have any basis for truth. I wrestle with the concepts of disclosure often. It is now a double-edged sword; I feel damned if I do, and damned if I don’t. It would have been so much easier on me if h had given me disclosure way back at the beginning, when I was actually feeling stronger and more hopeful than I do now, in many respects. Being dragged through more lies and never knowing all the old lies from the past was what seemed to do us in.

Reading a thread here that asked the question, “is it better to know?”, coupled with discussion on disclosure and another partner’s less-than-desirable experiences with her h’s SA meetings, brought it all back again. It was plenty enough to trigger me back into a pit of depression, despite how validating it was to read it. I can’t always ignore the unresolved past between h and I, and simply focus only on myself. This is still a very real part of my day-to-day life, even if he doesn’t react to other women as often as he once did, and even if he does treat me better overall, and even if there aren’t any new lies of which I’m aware. Without the whole truth, there is a huge gaping hole between us that remains wide open. In hindsight, I would have rather known it all, rather than the little I do. I don’t even have all the information I need to make an informed decision about whether to stay or go; I don’t even know all of what it is I would need to forgive.

If I were to talk to h about my being recently triggered again and why, his response would be, “Then why do you read that stuff? Why do you go to that site?”. He doesn’t realize the solution is not for me to avoid; the solution is for him to stop avoiding. He makes my pain my responsibility and implies that I need to do what is necessary to avoid the pain. He doesn’t realize nor understand that my pain has been caused by him, and it is his responsibility to start doing what is necessary to take responsibility for that. I cannot keep burying my pain like he does. The only way is to start facing it again, as difficult as that is.

The only way out of the pain is to first walk through it. You have to feel it; you have to face it; you have to work through it. It will keep coming back, so long as you haven’t taken the necessary steps to resolve it. How can I resolve this part of my pain, without h’s input? I can’t.

I will find a way if I must without his help; but I don’t know how I could stay with him, if this is never addressed. The more time goes by, the more alone I feel in my marriage. I do what I can to stay well, but some days it is really hard.

I had a dream the other night about a bridge. I dream of bridges often. Bridges are symbolic to me for so many different reasons. In this particular dream, I was crawling uphill on the asphalt and found myself at the peak of the bridge. The incline was very steep. Once I got to the top, I could see a gaping hole between the incline I had just climbed up, and the descent down on the other side, which was equally as steep. When I looked through the hole and down to the water hundreds of feet below, there were small blocks of ice floating in the water. The ice was frozen, and I froze too. I could not move. I was stuck. I remained frozen there in time, until h came along and helped me down the other side. I was immobilized without his help. His help was the only thing that freed me and allowed me to move again.

This dream was so symbolic to what has been going on in my real life.

[Charly22]

I had a dream the other night about a bridge. I dream of bridges often. Bridges are symbolic to me for so many different reasons. In this particular dream, I was crawling uphill on the asphalt and found myself at the peak of the bridge. The incline was very steep. Once I got to the top, I could see a gaping hole between the incline I had just climbed up, and the descent down on the other side, which was equally as steep. When I looked through the hole and down to the water hundreds of feet below, there were small blocks of ice floating in the water. The ice was frozen, and I froze too. I could not move. I was stuck. I remained frozen there in time, until h came along and helped me down the other side. I was immobilized without his help. His help was the only thing that freed me and allowed me to move again.

This dream was so symbolic to what has been going on in my real life.

Symbolic indeed !!! I dream of something similar. Reoccuring. I have a couple of different reoccuring dreams, but your reminded me of this one --- mine is of highway onramps. It is always me driving up this onramp, but the onramp appears to me like a very steep roller coaster track, but I am on it in my car, I cannot see over the steep ramp, because it is very steep down on the other side too. And I am always fearful. Afraid to go to the top. I've never made it to the other side in any of my dreams.

I can relate with how you are feeling. I feel like my husband does not understand, or is not able to, why I am able to still be upset about these issues. He is doing better at not looking at p. But what I need now, now that has stopped, I need to feel safe to discuss my triggers, my feelings, my fears, and it is usually met with resistance. So, I feel hindered. I ask for his help. He usually doesn't understand. He recently told me that he doesn't mind ressuring me, but I need to be able to reassure myself sometimes. He is aware that even he hasn't done anything to make me feel insecure, that I can still have this resurface, he thinks he is trying to get me to "man up", be a bit stronger for myself, by telling me that. But it makes me feel like he is not willing to hear, to listen, to understand, to be my rock in this.

It is devastating to feel alone in all of this. Without our partner in life. Partner in life, except for this. This one thing that is consuming me. I am alone with it.

I understand.

[Aloevera]

Thinking of you TS
You talk about the pain of your relationship so clearly and I feel for you.
I am glad to be remembering my dreams now, well sometimes I remember, I appreciate how our dreams tell us something about what we are dealing with.

The dream you describe is powerful.

Have you read Charly's journal yet, she is, and it is amazing. All I can really say is that our own healing is what is important. Your healing is what you need to prioritise.

And thanks for the elephant. Like you I wish it wasn't there, and yes GH and I talk about it now, thank goodness so it isn't as big now as it was.

Be gentle on yourself won't you.
AV

[rosie]

Hey Too Sensitive :)

I was the person who started that thread... Is it better to know?. I asked because, like you, I wanted to know. I felt it was important. I thought it would bridge the gulf. However, I was wrong. The confessions destroyed me, and, my marriage...which is why I asked in the first place.

So on one hand, I was meant to be all happy for him for being authentic and open, whilst simultaneously picking up the pieces of my heart off the floor.

I wish I could wrap you up in a little bubble and slap your hand when you asked to know, because I can honestly say that I wish nobody had to go through that. But, I do understand why you need it and I do understand that it is important for healing.

Is there anyway that you could know without knowing every detail? I felt that the details were the worst of it, but I am a glutton for punishment and kept asking and asking and asking, I had to know EVERYTHING, and I ignored the good advice from Jenn on this forum to be careful about what you ask about.

It is very possible that you will never get the answers for the questions you seek. It is also possible that the gap will not be bridged by knowing. The question is, will you be able to live with that?

If your HB is committed to recovery and is making good progress, what purpose would it serve? I ask only because I want you to think more about it, not because I am trying to sway you either way. This, is your journey and you need what you need. But the simple truth is this; You can't ever control what you get from it. I still don't believe I know the full extent of everything, and I have no way of ever knowing if I do. I think my mistake in all of this was not working on daily active recovery with my HB, but instead dredging up the past and being consumed in the pain of it all.

Sorry for the long post. I hope what I have said comes across in the in way it was intended; as supportive.

I wish you well TooSensitive. Peace for you :) xx

[TooSensitive]

Hi All,

I wanted to start my day by posting something funny to me.

Yesterday I made a lamb roast for dinner for the family. Normally we would not be able to afford lamb, but it was a deeply discounted clearance item, so we bought 2 roasts.

So I call my teenage son down to the table when the food’s ready. He asks, “What kind of meat is this?” and then proceeds to put a forkful of meat into his mouth. He’s never had lamb before. In all my honesty, I tell him the honest truth, “Lamb”. The word is hitting the air at the same moment as that fork is entering my son’s mouth. Before the meat even touches any part of the inside of his mouth, he yanks the fork out of his mouth and has the most hysterical look of horror on his face. He exclaims, “I can’t eat lamb! I like lambs!”. By this point, I am in stitches, laughing hysterically, esp. b/c I predicted his reaction in advance. I do know my son! My h goes on to say, “What did you tell him that for?”. What can I say, my first instincts are to be honest, and nothing less. Even when I am fibbing b/c I have a nice surprise for someone, I break down in laughter, b/c I am not very good at lying, even when it is the good kind (in which case I do refer to it as “fibbing”, like when you are planning a surprise party for someone and they will find out the pleasant truth soon enough!).

It didn’t matter that we explained how I love pigs yet continue to eat pork, and how for me, cows too have a cuteness factor, with those big eyes of theirs, yet I continue to eat beef, etc. My son was having no parts of that lamb! And though in hindsight I wish I had mentally practiced “fibbing” to him, just to get him to at least try the lamb, I am proud of myself for having my first instinct be to tell the truth, and then doing just that. I don’t know if h gained any insight or learned any lesson from that fact alone or not.

So as funny as the scenario was, there was also a serious side to it as well, and a lesson at hand. And even I can recognize that lamb may be an acquired taste and might taste odd to someone who’s never had it before. Esp. a kid. So even if I had “fibbed’ and perhaps said it was some kind of beef, I honestly don’t think my son would have liked the taste regardless! I knew on some level that fibbing would have done no good either. But if I had fibbed, I would have at least come clean and told him the truth later.

Moral of the story: honesty really is the best policy, except when you are trying to plan a nice surprise for another! Needless to say, my son opted for a PB&J sandwich for dinner instead…somehow the other things I offered him for dinner, which all involved some form of meat which he normally did like, just wasn’t sounding good last night! I think he was picturing all the animals in his head from which the meat comes…I hope I have not ruined him for life by trying to get him to eat lamb!

TS

[JenMac]

Hey TS!
I am not so sure I still want to hear it, b/c I don’t want to risk my wellbeing. Though I’ve still got a long way to go, I’ve done so much work on myself already, and I am not willing to throw that out the window, all for the sake of hearing his disclosure. Yet if I don’t, I don’t know how he and I could remain together. I feel it is the only way I will have any basis for truth. I wrestle with the concepts of disclosure often. It is now a double-edged sword; I feel damned if I do, and damned if I don’t.

The only way out of the pain is to first walk through it. You have to feel it; you have to face it; you have to work through it. It will keep coming back, so long as you haven’t taken the necessary steps to resolve it. How can I resolve this part of my pain, without h’s input? I can’t.



I see you are struggling with the issue I have struggled with all along. What do I need to know? How much is necessary to be revealed to enable my H's healing, our relationship's healing but still being able to maintain my own wellbeing? Wow that is such a tender balance, isn't it? We don't know what will tip that balance and send us toppling.
I know for me, I am trusting my own physical reactions when I get close to information, meaning when there are things I want to ask/know about, I trust my gut to tell me if this is right for me at the time.
I was warned early on by my therapist to be careful with the details and how much you want to know about those as they will stick with you. I also read a recovery book by an SO that said exactly the same thing.
I know the outline/basis of what occurred. I know enough to know what my H was involved in. I know the timeline. Do I need to torture myself with knowing every situation/every person/every detail of what he viewed? I can't possibly know it all anyway! Like my H's counsellor said, it is all bad!
My H has been forthright with what I have asked but it was a process. It took time for him to be able to come to terms himself TS. And it also took some consistent urging on my part for him to open up over time. It has been a huge learning process for both of us. And it has brought us closer each time we have gone through it and out the other side.
I believe you are right on both accounts here. There are things you may feel you need to know to ensure there is an honesty and openness within your marriage. This I believe is paramount to having a close and intimate relationship! Yet there are also things that provide perhaps too much information that, for me, I could get lost in (obsess about) that make things no better or worse in relation to the situation. These are the details. At this point I don't feel like I want/need to dwell there.
I am sorry, I feel like I came in late to this conversation but you reminded me of how much I struggled and still do struggle at times with this very thing!
Finding the balance is the most important thing TS and hopefully your H will realize that this is crucial to both your healing and his as well.
All the best TS!
Jenn