Do I stay or do I go?

[astander]

Hi. I'm new here, and I think it's the best forum I've seen so far. So for the last few days I've been reading some, and it's been comforting. So far I haven't really connected with any other SOs.

But I am just fed up. I have always said I don't believe in divorce, that I would stay no matter what (unless I was being physically abused or my son was, or if my son started to become exposed to the porn). But now, I just can't take it anymore. He has had moments of clarity, let's say, when he realizes how broken he is and needs help. But for the most part is still in denial, and kind of rolls his eyes whenever I try to talk about how much it hurts. We're both in counseling, but he has yet to do anything concrete to deal with this. He says he wants to, but those are just words.

I am trying to get to the stage where I don't control him anymore, don't look at history, etc. But it's hard and I still look from time to time. So I just found one site he'd been looking at with videos of people visiting prostitutes in the red light district in Amsterdam. The reason that one hurts so much is because we lived in Amsterdam for a time, and he visited a prostitute when I was about 5 months pregnant. Why on earth would he want to look at that site, when he was supposedly so remorseful about that incident? He looks at some pretty sick stuff online, but that one just really throws the salt on the wounds.

I think I should probably ask him to leave. This is going nowhere fast. He's a pretty good father though, and my son adores him. So I feel like I would just be transferring my pain to my son, who would then have to live in a broken home. I just don't know what to do anymore.

[JenMac]

HI astander!
I am glad you are here! It really does help us when we know we are not alone and here you will find many others who have experienced your pain and have lived through it.
Noone can make decisions for you about whether to stay or go but we can offer a listening ear, our own experiences and some of the strategies that have worked for us.
I am an SO here and my H Mac is also here at TTF. We joined about 6 months ago and we have travelled this path together. When I discovered this in my home, my H would have told you it was no big deal either. He did not come to understand how much this had affected himself, me or our relationship until he had stepped clear of it for a time. It has not been an easy road but our relationship has survived and we are moving ahead to a closer, stronger bond.
I knew from the beginning I could not live with this in my life and I told my H that within 24 hours of discovery. He had choices to make and he chose to committ to recovery and I chose to stay in the marriage as long as I could see and feel that committment.
I know for me it is important that I feel safe, respected and loved within my relationship and that was not possible with P in our life.
Astander, you are in the right place! You can find support and comfort here. You can come here for guidance and strength. You will have hard decisions to make but first and foremost you should be taking the time to care for yourself and your child. That is the most important thing right now! You need to do for yourself so you can become stronger and more able. Coming here is a great place to start! There is a strong group of wonderful SOs here who are kind and caring. They will surround you with the support you are needing! Be sure to lean on us when you need us!
All the best!
Jenn

[astander]

Thanks Jenn. We just had another argument about it, I keep trying to get him to say whether he wants to choose me or the porn. He always says me, but it's with sarcasm and reluctance. So today I scheduled another appointment with me and the counselor, and we need to make a plan for 90 days, and if things don't get better than we have to split. I really wanted him to choose to take the computer out of the basement himself, but he wouldn't do it. So I took it out (again) and told him that he had to choose -- me or the porn. I said something about the shame of porn and he said, I'm not ashamed! I love porn! I wish I had a t-shirt that said I *heart* porn!

Can you believe that? He is definitely not into this. He is going reluctantly, and it's probably not going to work. I want to leave before the baby is born, because it will be easier that way, I think. Clearly not easy, but easier.

[astander]

I told him about this forum, and told him how all the stories of the SO sounded like mine, the pain and the hurt and how hard it all is to deal with, how it takes him away from me and our son, etc. He said, football takes me away from you and our son more than porn does! He also compared the way SOs feel with the way men felt in the 60s and 70s when women started going back to work, they felt like they wouldn't be needed anymore, etc.

He's in total denial and I don't think that's changing anytime soon. I just need to keep praying.

[JenMac]

HI again!
I am sorry that your H is feeling that way about P, that he is not recognizing the harm it is doing. He is probably of the mindset that a lot of guys are, that it is harmless, that all guys do it etc., that it is your problem. Sad really.
I have learned so much since beginning this journey, as has my H. This is a scary problem within our society and you wonder where it is going to end.
Sometimes it takes the prospect of losing everything dear to them for it to shock them back to reality. Not sure how deeply your H is into this at this point but since you are here, I suspect it is pretty bad.
Set your boundaries Astander, decide what you will accept and what you will not. This is not all about him, but about what you can live with too, he needs to realize that!
Jenn

[JenMac]

Prayer is good too! I prayed a lot in the beginning for guidance in how to deal with this. It seemed to work well for me as I feel I received that guidance along with a strength I didn't know I had!
Jenn

[Crisodian]

astander,
Welcome to TTF. I am the SO (wife) of a PA in recovery over a year now.

I'm sorry your H apparently is in complete and total denial of his P problem. That is a real challenge. Jen gave you some great advice for setting boundaries of what you will accept in your life and marriage. Right now, it seems he is in the frame of mind that you are not serious about the ultimatum - P or You.

Somehow, whatever works best for you, you need to show him how serious you are about that promise to go.

He also compared the way SOs feel with the way men felt in the 60s and 70s when women started going back to work, they felt like they wouldn't be needed anymore, etc.

While not funny, this made me chuckle. He really compares the way we feel (as SOs) to the fact that men were threatened by women returning to the work force? Really? I don't think men were dealing with shattered trust, infidelity, abuse, anger, and total devastation of their lives when their wives started making a paycheck. I would say that is so far from a logical comparison, it defies logic. :)

There is plenty of research out there to prove what the actors/actresses in P experience and why that industry is so horrifying. There is also some really great information out there about how we, as SOs, "really" view P.

If you haven't seen them yet, I would highly recommend:

Life with a PA - The Dark Side of the Moon

and

Why Does P equare to Infidelity, or Does It? (specifically the post I linked here)

And for your husband:

The P Downside by the Numbers

No matter whether you decide to stay or go, you need to heal for you and your children. And, most important, you need to make whatever decisions are right, for YOU.

Find a path to peace,
~C~

[artguy34]

Set your boundaries Astander, decide what you will accept and what you will not. This is not all about him, but about what you can live with too, he needs to realize that!
Jenn

Astander,

This is great advice from Jenn, not only do you have to decide what is best for you, but also for your child coming into this world. Do you wish for your child to grow up in this type of environment? Obviously not.

I lived in a household with porn materials and grew up thinking it was ok. Nearly 30 years of Porn! Luckily for me, my wife (Crisodian) put her foot down and gave me my last chance... (The Ultimatum) and I had to choose. Now that I look back at my life, I can say in my heart of hearts that she saved my life. And I for one am proud that I am breaking the cycle of PA with my children. They are going to grow up in a Porn-free environment!

And from what you stated above, it seems your H is not ready to heal and does not take this issue seriously. It could be because he thinks you're not going to leave him? I don't know, but if you draw that line, you should be prepared to cross it and leave him if need be. Maybe, just maybe he will "get it". But he has to step up and take control of his life.

God helps those who help themselves right?
So if you're husband isn't willing to help himself, God's not going to make him do it.
So why should you be forced to?

I apologize for being so blunt, but on this road to recovery, it takes both PA and SO to work together in order to heal each other as well as their marriage. You can't carry the burden all by yourself!

Whatever your choice may be, I wish you luck on your road to healing!

AG

[astander]

Yes, the analogy to the wives going back to work is quite ridiculous. You can't imagine how many ridiculous things I've had to try and "argue" about, it's all about denial and minimizing.

My therapist suggested that after I stop trying to control his watching and let go, that I put it back on him, that he answer the question "how will I know when things are improving?" and he laughed and said, see! You just proved my point, that whether I watch porn or not it has no impact on our marriage. It's only whether you KNOW about it or not.

So then I said, are you in this much denial when you talk to your therapist? and he says, no, I know it's a problem.

Ok so back on track. So, you have decide for yourself not to watch it, not for me, I say. Then he says, well I'm obviously doing it for you, because you're the one who has a problem with it. He says that I should let him watch about 20 minutes a day, and then it wouldn't be the problem, since that would be normal.

it's maddening.

[astander]

I just read that dark side of the moon piece -- I could have written that, that could be me talking. ugh.