vintageturtle's journal

[TrueBlue]

About telling your husband when something triggers you--I talked myself out of that a bunch of times too. I've found that I still kind of tuck things away if they happen when we are apart, but it's not entirely uncommon for me to say something like "that makes me (sad, angry, sick) and you know why. Let's talk about it later if it still bugs me" And then maybe one out of five times do we end up talking about it in depth. I don't know, it seemed to take the pressure off, didn't have to really explain or justify, just a quick share. I did find also that things worked out better if we had a quick kiss or hug too, so that we both knew we were on the same side, and I wasn't telling him "you're in trouble later".

And I so agree with the absurdity of that line. It's like: Even if you were better, you wouldn't be good enough. No thanks, that's no comfort.

all the best,
TB

[vintageturtle]

Thanks, everyone. I think I'm in a spot where things have been calm around here for a while and I'm letting myself vent more.

TrueBlue, that sounds like a good plan. I tend to want to get deep into things if I bring something up, and my H knows that. I think if I gave myself permission to just put it out there without expecting to get to the bottom of it right away, it would be a lot easier to bring things up.

I'm still reading from the SA white book every day. I know it's not aimed at SOs, but I'm finding it a bit... difficult? to read. Mostly because I don't really get a lot of what they're saying. I'm feeling stuck on the idea of surrendering right now. If I were reading it as an addict, I would be wondering how exactly I was supposed to surrender, and why it works. But I tend to get stuck on those questions with anything.

H has been to two group meetings and one individual meeting already this week. He found the only CSAT in our area and had his first meeting with her, went to one SA meeting, and one general addiction recovery meeting. I'm glad he's taking the time and initiative to do all this, but it's starting to make me feel a bit nervous. Like maybe he's struggling a lot and that's driving him to do all this, but he doesn't want to let on.

[vintageturtle]

I worked up the nerve for a little talking last night. I started out by telling him that I'm glad he's going to all of these meetings now and seeing the CSAT, but it's making me a little nervous that he's struggling and not letting on. He explained that it was more difficult to get to meetings during the holidays & when work was busy, and that it's slowing down now so he's getting back into the swing of things. He also said that he is trying to lean more on his other support in terms of talking about stuff because he finds that every conversation we have about his stuff is painful to me; it doesn't seem to help either of us. He can be more open and straightforward in his groups. Which makes total sense and something that I was trying to encourage earlier on; I felt like I was his only outlet and it was too much. Of course, now I feel like I'm in the dark. :P

I also told him that I was worried that he wasn't talking to me for the same reason I wasn't talking to him: I was afraid that hearing my problems would be discouraging to him. It never seemed to be the right time to bring something up. Either things were already difficult and I didn't want to bring us down lower, or things were going well and I didn't want to bring that down. He reassured me that there was nothing I could say that would bring things down for him, because he already knows how strongly I support him. So I told him I would start trying to bring things up when they were an issue for me. And then I brought up a couple of things. One was just a, "You said this recently and I thought you were going to tell me you had relapsed but it was completely unrelated but until I realized that I was terrified" type thing that I needed to get off my chest. When I tried to get into some heavier stuff, though, it was very difficult for me to express myself, and then H was asking for clarification, and I always respond to that by being stressed out and feeling like he's challenging what I'm saying, when really I was just being really abstract so I could avoid pointing out specifically things he had done. (I keep reading about addicts having to be in denial about how their addiction affects them and their relationships, but right from the start he's been sure that it hasn't affected ours, at least not until I knew about it. My doubts about this lead me to pull away from him, and then he's hurt and doesn't understand why I'm pulling away.) We muddled through it, though, and it was a good start, anyway. He knows a little more about what's on my mind now.

I told him I'm glad he's getting support elsewhere, but I'm not comfortable with us just not talking anymore. I suggested that maybe instead of focusing on his problems or my problems, we could talk about ways to work on our relationship. He said OK; do you have anything specific in mind? And again, I was flustered and felt challenged, like my suggestion wasn't valid or something. I can see, objectively, that he was just trying to continue the conversation. That's something I need to be more aware of when we're talking. Anyway, I suggested maybe we get articles or a book to read through together, so we're not just sitting down saying "We should talk" and not knowing where to start. He agreed. Now I need to figure out what to read. We have "The P Trap," and I had thought about us reading through that together a long time ago, but that doesn't really take the focus off of his problems. I think there is a chapter or section about PA and marriage; maybe just that would work. Or "Love You, Hate the P."

[HopefulsRock]

Hey VT... as I'm reading through your posts I'm feeling the struggles you and your H are having, the touchy conversations, the awkward kind of disconnected times when your not sure just how or what to talk about but in the end I have to say that overall it leaves me with a positive feeling because you are communicating and that's how we get through this. That's also precisely how Hopeful and I find ourselves getting on with our life in a positive way... communication! Nice work to the both of you in your thoughts, efforts and actions... I sense good things will come your way as a result. I like your thinking on looking for something to work on together just about your relationship and not all about the addiction or the healing but in my opinion "The P Trap" and "Love You Hate The P" is a bit heavy on that very subject you were looking to avoid. Perhaps "The Love Dare" would be a challenging but fun thing to work through together? ...not really sure as I did it alone but found it a very moving and actually spiritual awakening for myself. Just a thought VT as everyone is different but keep on keeping on with your positive efforts because I believe positive efforts will reap positive rewards.

[vintageturtle]

I really just meant I wanted to stop dwelling so much on his P problem and the whys and wherefores of PA generally. I was reading the SA white book, and it's (obviously) aimed at SAs, not SOs, and it was getting pretty depressing. That's more what I meant, in terms of what I wanted to avoid. With The P Trap, my plan is just for us to read the two chapters that deal with the effects P has on a relationship and how to begin healing. I think it's a good idea for us to at least start out using tools that are aimed at couples healing from PA or other SA problems. But thanks for the heads up. And thanks for the reminder about The Love Dare. I started it probably a year ago, but I haven't pulled it out to do an exercise for probably 11 months or so. :P

My H now has homework from his CSAT; it's one of the Patrick Carnes books, Facing the Shadow? I think. I have another with a similar title, so I may be mixing them up. Now he has to find time to work on it, and we don't really have a quiet place for that kind of work at home. He's considering going into the city to the university library on Sundays. I'm torn between being supportive of him and not wanting to give up more family time. His schedule will be better soon; he's working a ton of overtime at the moment. In another month or two, things should ease up and we might be able to work something else out, like an evening at home after the kids are in bed dedicated to him working on that and me working on something.

[HopefulsRock]

Hey VT... I hear ya on not dwelling on the whys and wherefores ...Hopeful and I feel the same way. It's time to move on and rise a little higher above the addiction and the hurt and get along with this happier, more positive life that's waiting for us. I've got to say that your H sounds like he's working diligently on his own recovery anyway while he's doing his best to be your H and Dad... that's good stuff. I think you two are heading in the right direction and it's inspiring to read when a couple turns this thing around in such a way as you two have. Even though we PA's trudge ahead with caution and on constant alert we do so with a much better understanding of the dangers that lie ahead.

I myself used to find time at work to journal in my book and work through some workbook exercises but I have a job where I'm off on my own at times and can do such a thing. I believe my co-workers knew there was a change in me and wondered where I'd disappear to at times but I felt I needed to make the time because it certainly couldn't wait so I'd just tell some fibs about checking on some equipment or cleaning up and I was just taking my time.... whatever, people certainly can get nosy. Anyway, I didn't want to take any more time away from family time either and that's why I made time elsewhere. I've got to say that it is very difficult to find quiet time for myself to sit and reflect on myself and the things I need to learn and become.... but I myself would feel to nervous and on alert to sit out in public and try to focus on this stuff, plus the university kind of throws up a red flag for my comfort zone.

When you say this

In another month or two, things should ease up and we might be able to work something else out, like an evening at home after the kids are in bed dedicated to him working on that and me working on something.

I believe you don't have to wait a few months because your already at work ...on each other and that's priceless!

[vintageturtle]

You're right, Rock, he is working on his recovery and I know it's a good thing. Your description of how difficult it is just to get a few minutes to work on your journal is something that I do feel for; I know that giving up P is a big adjustment and we expect PAs to suddenly balance everything perfectly and be able to recover and guard against triggers and go to meetings and be perfectly supportive of their SOs... sometimes I think that all that pressure can be too much.

I kind of feel, though, like I'm playing fortunately, unfortunately. Fortunately, my H is seeing a CSAT... unfortunately, we don't really have the money for it. Fortunately, he has had plenty of overtime work available lately... unfortunately, that leaves me home alone wiht the kids all day. Fortunately, my H is attending SA meetings and spending time working on a workbook... unfortunately, that leaves me home alone with the kids all day.

[vintageturtle]

H saw his CSAT again. He's talking a little more about it now; it helps that she's given him a workbook and assignments, I think, because he finds that kind of thing easier to talk about. He has told me how great it has been to have someone he can just talk and talk and talk to; he found with his sponsor that the sponsor did a lot of talking, and H couldn't get stuff out that he wanted to talk about (he also said he understood why and that the sponsor/sponsee relationship was supposed to benefit both, but he needed more time to talk stuff out). He also went to the addiction recovery group at church; again, he was the only one there apart from the facilitators.

As for me, I feel like I'm in a place where lots of things are triggering me and I'm feeling down, but that's pushing me to do things to help myself move forward, so overall I think I'm making more progress than I do when I'm just kind of ignoring it and not feeling down about it. If that makes sense. I'm doing better at keeping to a schedule with the kids (it's not rigid, I'm just not wasting time and then wondering why we never have time to do stuff) and we're spending more good family time together. I'm making time for positive self-care instead of indulging in things that seem comforting, but are mostly just distractions.

[vintageturtle]

I feel like I should write in my journal to keep me on track or motivated or whatnot, but I don't have much to say. I had a small victory over my fear of sharing my thoughts & feelings with h -- he was out late after a meeting earlier this week, and he didn't call to say why. I got myself all worked up over what-ifs. I had asked him to run an errand for me after work, before his meeting, and it seemed like that was the plan, but instead he worked until his meeting and then ran the errand after, and he ended up having to go to about four different places to find what I was looking for. So instead of whatever depressing scenarios I was imagining, he was out at the end of a long day, running around for me. I didn't tell him until two days later, and I didn't make a big deal out of it; I just told him I was worried because I thought he was going to run the errands earlier.

In the end, it was no big deal. I'm not sure what I was expecting. Since it took me a couple of days to say anything, and I just casually mentioned it while he was getting ready to head off to work, it probably sounded like it was no big deal to me. I'm not sure if I went about that the right way. Arg. This is all so hard.

[HopefulsRock]

Argggg... is right VT... Hopeful and I had a very similar circumstance about a year or so ago. We talked about maybe having me stop at the phone store one of my days after work and one day I got out a few minutes early and decided to stop. Well I thought I could just pull it off without telling her my every move... or maybe I was just used to keeping secrets... or probably my poor communication skills........(check) all of the above! Point is instead of being home a few minutes early I was more like 45 minutes late and never said why...? Poor decision on my part but anyway it took her about a day or so to ask why I was running late. Such a simple little thing caused a lot of pain and anguish on her part and all of it could have been avoided with a simple call or text... communication is key to recovery, healing and rebuilding that trust that's so badly broken and lack of it is also key in breaking it all down! Hopeful and I learned on that day and many more times how important it is to stay connected and tuned into each others lives in order to rebuild and somehow get past this. in order to do that it took far more simple communications between us than what we used to consider normal and many times if things got quiet and the conversation lagged a bit one of us would just simply ask, "what are you thinking?" Turns out many times the other one wasn't even aware of what they were thinking anything until asked. Sometimes you can kind of guess what they're thinking and other times your not even close. Our minds are incredibly complex and awesome but at times can be very difficult to understand and control so, Argggg... is a very good way to describe it all but it can be a positive thing as long as you both learned from it.

......................and you didn't think you had much to talk about..... there's always something to talk about.