Back on TTF...Trying to be Brave.

[Comewhatmay]

I stopped writing on TTF almost right after I began last year. At first, reading other's posts helped. Writing my own posts was painful... fleshing it all out and admitting to myself and others what I've experienced... it was too much. How do you continue your day to day life while acknowledging the pain from an unfaithful spouse? It was humiliating to me. All of those months... strewn out long days that were full of pain and paranoia. I just shoved my feelings deep down. I swallowed them. And, not surprisingly, the lump in my throat remains.

All the while, he tried to keep track of his progress to show me he cares and that he can be sober... with a calendar. But, with each "slip," the calendar seemed useless. "Why keep track of progress when you will only end up back at square zero again?" I asked him (though I know this was terrible of me). Every time he slipped up, my heart's bandages were ripped off. Did he know that? "How can you continually see the woman you love sobbing because of YOU, and do NOTHING?" I wondered.

I ripped up the calendar, and threw it away one day. I told him I didn't want to know his progress. I wanted my own calendar. One with a blank list of days for my past, present and future that had no association to him, the lies, the PA. I wanted freedom from his problems. I couldn't do it, I told him. I tried and I couldn't forget. Forgiveness was not an option, I insisted.

He begged we try counseling. So we tried. He felt this was very helpful. I felt empty inside and cried every session. It was humiliating. I didn't want a therapist. The sad truth was, I wanted a personal stalker to follow my man around and shock him when he thought or did something wrong. I wanted him to feel the pain I felt associated with the PA. I wanted him to want ME, not them. Not these bodies floating around on a screen. I felt insane. Neurotic. Once the pain, the sadness, the anger passed, I just wanted to control him. And the terrifying thing of course is that this is impossible to do. And it is not "love" as I want it to be, or believe it belongs. How do you remain in love with someone who destroyed who you were as a person? What do you do when the person you love makes you question every memory and special moment you had together? Every vow? All of it seemed clouded... clouded by his indiscretions.

Finally, I stopped. It was too exhausting. I stopped checking his emails. I stopped being his nagging police system. I just stopped. I went to therapy, went though the motions, and even tried to allow us to get intimate again. I tried to pretend I could forgive. I tried to pretend we were okay.

Amazingly, we began to feel like "us" again. I stopped thinking of all of those horrible deceptions and images that were carved in my mind. I felt I was making progress... or I told myself I was.

Though we no longer keep a calendar..I would venture to say that it has been about 6 months with no P... He has done everything he can think of to show me he wants to do better, be better. Little things he never used to do... he shows me his cell phone when he gets a text (just instinctually, now) and he leaves all of his accounts so that they are logged in and I could see them if I wanted to. He tells me where he is, what he's doing. I have yet to catch him in a lie. He has worked through his struggles in groups, and in therapy, and personally. He has been more loving towards me than ever before. He seems devoted, dedicated, and aware of what he could lose again: Me.

So... shouldn't I be happy? Proud? Thrilled? In love?

Things still pop up in my mind at the strangest moments in the day, and hurt me. They still make me question this relationship. This experience has NOT made me feel stronger. Though it may not appear it to him, I am not recovered. I feel weak. I feel tired. I feel like I'm going through the motions.

I wonder if maybe this is not repairable.. even though he's fixed the problem. After finding all of the things I found, all of the lies that occurred.. all I can seem to do is link. I link everything. I link the days and the times. The time/day he emailed me a link to a house we were looking at (our first house together), he was also (at the same time), looking at P. and chatting with strangers. I became so obsessed... I know these things..these sick details. I know when he did it, where he did it, and what he was doing while he was doing it. Most of the time, he was texting me "I love you" while doing it while he was on his work computer, or while I was happily asleep in the next room after he kissed me goodnight and said he had to "stay up to work". He would even do these things after we had a romantic evening. These are the little details that I can't get over. The "when" and the "why" questions. The links. I will never feel "enough" again.

I shared him, without knowing it, with other women he will never meet. Women who will never know about that freckle on his smallest toe. Or the way he crinkles his eyebrows when he is watching a movie. They won't care that he likes to dry the dishes instead of washing them, or that he always sleeps on the left side of the bed by the window. They don't know his favorite song, or that he laughs silently, not out loud. These women who have fascinated the man I love, will never know him or love him. I did.

Dear SO's... How on earth do you ever feel "The Same" again after you've been hurt in this awful way?? I worry I won't ever look at him and see the man I fell in love with again.

[Charly22]

In my opinion, I think you hit the nail on the head with "How on earth do you ever feel "The Same" again after you've been hurt in this awful way?? I worry I won't ever look at him and see the man I fell in love with again"

In my situation, I don't think I have ever felt the same. I had to learn to become a new and different and better person, and the same goes for my husband, when both of those things happen, then we both become new versions of our old selves, and build from that.

Forgiveness is not just so easy to offer is it? It has to be earned.....do you feel he has earned it? If so, then now its your turn to find a NEW you, to match a NEW him. If you don't feel as though he has earned it...well...thats a whole different ball game.

[Life-lies-trust]

I'm sorry to say you will never be "the same" again. All the illusions that you had have been brutally broken open to show that they were not filled with love and happiness but with hurt and uncertainty. You can only control you and work to find what really makes you happy. This is hard and sometimes hurtful.

When will it end I have no idea.
Hugs and Chocolate to you.(choc)

[JenMac]

Welcome back Comewhatmay!
I am glad you found your way back to TTF and I hope that you can find comfort here this time.
Wow! Your post captures what many of us feel about the invasion of this soul damaging addiction into our lives. It not only has a terrible effect on the PA but the SO as well. It cuts deep and the wounds seem to take a long time to heal. It seeps into so many areas of our lives so that we can't seem to escape from it.
Comewhatmay, I wrote a long, detailed response to you but it disappeared on me so I am trying to recreate it after some time has passed. Hope I am able to express all that I had wanted to say.
It has been just over 4 months since I discovered P on my H's home office computer quite by accident. I was completely blindsided by this discovery! I believed we had the best of marriages and that we were at a wonderful place in our lives as our kids were grown and independent and we had only ourselves to worry about. We have been married over 30 years and I felt that my H was my best friend.
The first few months after this discovery I was completely immersed in this, I could think of nothing else. I couldn't deal with the day to day expectations of life. I was extremely tired and feeling sick to my stomach a great deal of the time.
As time has passed I have felt myself becoming stronger. I am certainly not recovered but I seem to move back and forth between all the hurtful thinking to more positive thoughts. Like you, I feel at times like I am just pushing my thoughts, my pain away because I don't feel like I can go there at this time, it is too painful. Then thoughts and feelings arise that have to be dealt with and so the cycle repeats itself.
I am sad to hear that you can't get past the details. I worry about that too. I have questioned often about how much I need to know. I have this need to know things at times but I know the type of person I am and I know that I would get very stuck on details. I was advised by others, including my counsellor, to be careful about the details so I have been cautious as to what I ask. I do think that honesty is very important/necessary for recovery and to move ahead together as a couple. So it is quite a balancing act, I believe.
You asked how do you ever feel the same again or see the man you fell in love with. That is a difficult question and I am not sure if I can answer that at this time but I will tell you how it is for us right now. I have been contemplating lately that perhaps it had to come to this for us. We have had a couple of occasions over our marriage where there were similar struggles. Nothing to this extent at all but still in the same vein. I have always felt very strongly against this industry and considered myself a bit of a women's libber. My H always went along with me but I believe now, he really never saw the harm, everyone does it etc. Now all of that was before internet was accessible to him. Since recently becoming involved in a more serious way with internet P and the subsequent discovery by me, he has had to do a lot of soul searching, a lot of reflection on what he wants from life, what he has been supporting and how it has affected both him and us. It has been quite a journey and it can be a life changing event if he continues in the direction he has started. When I read on here about the PAs who have had success, they seem to say exactly that, that this has changed their approach to life. I am cautious yet hopeful that once we work our way through all of this pain that we will be stronger, closer. It will require a huge amount of work and committment from both of us to get there but it can be done. I have witnessed that here.
I have been naive before and I hope I am not being naive to be thinking that way but I am usually a positive thinker and that has helped me in the past. Hopefully that will help me in this instance as well.
Best wishes to you Comewhatmay!
I am thinking of you...
Jenn

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

comewhatmay-

Welcome back to TTF. No one wants to be here, but its better to be here than alone with your thoughts sometimes isn't it?

If your husband has really committed to change and you guys are committed to staying in your marriage, I think yu have to get it out of your head that things will ever be "the same". As everyone else already replied to you, things will never be the same and you will likely never love him with the same blind trust and adoration you used to. But, that doesn't mean you can't build a new marriage that is still good, just different.

One thing PAs have to understand and accept is that even when they are finally done with their fun and decide to commit to their partner, that just might not be enough. We as SOs have to take the time to decide for ourselves if this new, different definition of marriage is enough for us. Some people can move on, and some can't. We don't owe it to the PA to come running just because they finally stop lying and hurting us. Some people can move on, and some people can't.

I hope you can move on and accept a new good marriage that's different than what you hoped for, but still enough for you. But if you keep holding on to the thought that you will feel the same way you used to before all this, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.

I hope you have a good calm and happy weekend.

[Comewhatmay]

JenMac, thank you so much for responding with such honesty about your own situation. Also thanks to Wifeofnewlifeman... I guess I forget sometimes when I'm in my little shell that I'm not the only one going through this.

I realize...deep down at least, that things will never be the same. I guess so much of me (secretly, and now not so secretly) really misses the "Naive" me. I hate that word, but it's very true. It is sad it took this experience for me to realize that blindly trusting someone and allowing life to go on without every questioning so-called "monogamy" and "fidelity" was not the way to go. I think to myself, "Wow, for being an educated woman, you were pretty damn blind to obvious things, weren't you?!" Obvious, obvious things. Things that I feel any normal wife would question.

Was it because I truly trusted him or because I didn't want to see those "holes"? Now, thinking on it, I realize that in looking on his computer, I KNEW that I would find something. Then, the more he said there was nothing to find, the more I looked and the more I realized.... Every time I looked, I WOULD find something. I have an inner dialogue going on throughout my day. I talk to myself...back and forth: The "(dumb) happy, formerly naive me", talks to the "(smart) I now know the truth, and I don't know who this man in my bed is" me. Constant conflict. No calm.

I try to come up with tricks to make myself get through this faster. To accept this new "US". I know it can't be rushed but my therapist keeps saying "It's a choice. To move forward and to forgive is a choice." I am supposed to say this to myself. But instead, I find myself saying profanities aimed at my therapist, my husband, and myself. I am not good at mantras. But I look calm on the outside. I have to. Inside, I'm a volcano of anger. I am told to release it, blah blah blah. I can't. I just sit there, on that stupid couch next to my husband who is jubilant that he has controlled himself (and thus I should be "over it now" instead of "drudging things up again".. and I stare at the therapist and say (in my mind, only), "Why am I the one who has to deal with HIS problems." It is a statement, not a question. I really feel this way. He did this for years... years. Without me knowing. And I found it all..and was destroyed. SO he moves forward, and he's happy, and I'm left with the years worth of discoveries weighing on me.

I was the one who was hurt. I was the one who feels like daggers are stabbed into me each time I even look at a computer. I was the one who was faithful, and honest. I was the one who was lied to. I was the one who will never forget...I will never forget their faces...thier every detail (let's not get into it). I too am someone who may be called a women's lib... In a very basic way I thought all decent people were. How could my decent, kind husband look at people's daughters, sisters, friends in that disgusting way? I want to adopt these girls and simultaneously kill them. And then gauge out my husband's eyeballs. He and I used to joke about P. and how ridiculous it was. He talked about how he was "never into it." Interesting.

I am supposed to "understand" his "struggles"...but WHY? WHY should I? I'm an attractive, smart woman (by other people telling me this). I have friends who say to leave him because i'd have no trouble finding someone who'd appreciate me. We have no children (though we want..wanted..them). Can you have children successfully with a PA? Is this awful to ask? I am literally typing all of the awful things I think..that I can't tell my husband or our therapist. It just makes things worse. He asks what I'm feeling but doesn't realllyyy want to hear it. My husband says, "Why are you still this upset and sad? I thought we were fine and I'm "better" now. What more do you want from me?" And in truth, I understand his thoughts. He's done everything I asked. But is it enough?

My mind is at war with itself, and my heart feels dead. I miss the naive me who thought men were capable of being faithful... my husband is the LAST person IN THE WORLD I could see doing this (don't we all say that?) I know it's awful to even say that.. to admit I feel that way. That even the BEST man can't be TRUE to me. Anyways... I guess I am feeling angry today. I have never felt such a range of emotions or so unlike myself. So angry. So unforgiving. Thanks for listening... I know I'm on a roll with the randomness and the crazy. I really do appreciate your thoughts and suggestions. I'm obviously at a total loss... It's a rough roller-coaster. Do any other SO's feel like intimacy is now tainted, and GREAT days are just you feeling like it SHOULD be a great day but it's not because you feel empty inside? I hate the P. industry so much. It has ruined who I was. If I can't get my old marriage back, I at least need to get myself back.
Edit-side-note:
I also miss my husband. I know I sound so mean and angry. But I do care for him and am glad he's recovered. I just read some of the PA's journals... that helped. Thank you, guys for giving me a little reality check... you struggle too. I just am tired of it being about HIM all the time if that makes sense? Help from PA's may be nice too...thanks.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

comewhatmay-

Calm on the outside, volcano on the inside... I think I recognize myself here!

One thing my husband understands completely is that although he may do everything I ask and truly be horrified and ashamed at his past actions, it may still never be enough. I take it as a sign that he truly understands what harm he did and that he has to face the fact that he created the type of marriage we have now. It helps me that he hasn't said once that since he's better, I should be better too.

I hope your husband can understand and accept that while he may move on from his actions but you might never do the same and if he wants a marriage with you, he has to accept that you feel that way and it is his fault.

I too miss my husband and my own sense of naivete. I think none of us should beat ourselves up for believing in our spouses and not defining "trust" and "faithfulness" when we got married.

Its truly a roller coaster. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

[JenMac]

Comewhatmay,
I believe before we are able to move on we need to feel like we have been heard and understood. Our pain needs to be acknowledged, our feelings need to be truly spoken and addressed by our spouses. They need to understand the depth that they have hurt us. This does not have to be communicated only in anger. Some of our best discussions have been very calm and quiet. Also, at suggestion from this site, I wrote a letter to my H, early on, describing what this has done to me personally and to my thinking of us as a couple.
My H has joined this site and is able to read not only how I am feeling but how other SOs feel as well. He can see that I am not alone in how I feel about this. There is a commonality in all of us in how it affects us so deeply. I think it has helped immensely for him to be able to do that and to read the other PAs journals also. Your first post had a tremendous effect on my H. It took him back to the pain we experienced in the beginning.
I sense that you are feeling like you are unable to express your pain and therefore you are not feeling heard. The depth of your pain has not been acknowledged and understood. You are not feeling that your H 'gets it'. I needed to feel like my H 'got it' before I could move ahead. Feeling that did not make everything go away but at least I felt understood and the hurt and pain was acknowledged.
I am glad you are able to express yourself here so that you are able to at least get those feelings off your chest. The turmoil within ourselves that is created when we hold that emotion in is very damaging to us. It can make us physically ill. That is what makes this site such a blessing. I have always found that when I am bothered by anything, that if I can write it down, it helps me to let it go somewhat. This is a safe place to do that.
Comewhatmay, I am wishing you well. I am hoping that by coming here you will be able to find some peace, even if it is just in feeling less alone.
Jenn

[Comewhatmay]

Thanks again to both of you for your support. I already feel better knowing I can come here and have people "get it". No matter how I try to explain things to my H. I realize he never will truly understand, just in the same way I will probably never really understand all of the ins and outs of PA. I really felt a little more "free" when I read WifeOfNewLifeMan's response, saying that just because my H. is better doesn't mean I should have to be better with this now too. I guess it's never occurred to me that I am allowed to feel this way even when he's fixed things. I don't know that I'll ever be entirely "over it" or that I'll move on from it in the way he has seemed to. I guess that's our issue right now... he says that when I "drudge these things up again" it makes it all more of a struggle for him. And I obviously don't want to do that. But, at the same time, communicating my frustrations with my H. feels paramount... I hate those moments when he asks if I'm ok and I say yes, just because I don't want to stir the pot again. I want real honesty.

I'm exhausted by P. ruling so much of our lives and conversations...so when they stopped for a while, I was relieved at times. I tried to get him to come on to TTF...I suppose he is similar to me in being embarrassed by this. It's hard to tell your story and be honest consistently to others...and I think he'd rather pretend it never happened (my feelings on it, not his... he says I'm wrong.)

JenMac.. I'm glad my first post resonated with someone. I am surprised how much it means to me to have the words I say, and the pain I'm feeling, be something that people can relate to and react to. Sometimes, I wonder if what I say to my H. about my feelings on his PA have just become empty words that he's so used to me saying now, they have no affect. I have no way to really let him know the depth of my pain and confusion. I guess I am resisting the path our "new" relationship is going down. It's not that I dislike it.. In many ways he is more doting and respectful and thoughtful now. But it makes me wonder if he's being that way just to pay for his mistakes and I get sad about that. I become paranoid when he's especially sweet, wondering if he had a slip up that he's not sharing with me, or a temptation that he feels guilty for.

I can't just take things as they are anymore. He says I choose to think this way, dwelling on the past and the bad things he did, and that I have more control over my thoughts than this. But he doesn't seem to realize that it's like black mold...this feeling...and it's suffocating me much in the same way I'm sure his PA has made him feel trapped. I try to make the choice to get out of this lingering depression, and I can't seem to. When does an SO of a PA begin to feel pretty again, and begin to stop thinking about the other women (especially while being intimate), or begin to feel confident in their H. when it comes to trusting their word? I just feel we have gotten into a pattern, and if I say something more to him about my concerns, it will break his concentration and his sobriety.

Today I briefly mentioned I was back on TTF so that I could find a way to move forward with my feelings, and he asked me whether or not this would "ever get better" and he asked me how many days, months, years it would take me to "move on from the past". How could I begin to know that? It took me years of naivety before finding his stash of overwhelming (uncountable) betrayals... yet I should get over this so quickly? I know the annoyance in his voice. He says he's there for me, but he'd rather not remember the things he's done. I'm left to do that.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

comewhatmay-

I am sorry to read how much you are struggling and hurting. I am especially sorry that your husband doesn't seem to get it yet that his actions have impacted you so severely.

You said,
" I just feel we have gotten into a pattern, and if I say something more to him about my concerns, it will break his concentration and his sobriety. "

If he is committed to recovery, then your concerns and hurts should make him more committed to recovery, and not less. It makes me worry when any SO says that if they do whatever, they fear their PA may go back to P. Just like you didn't do ANYTHING to make him go to P, then you can't do anything to make him either quit P or go back to P. It is their choice either way.

I hope you two can get counselling or something because it just sets off warning bells to me when your husband sounds like he is making this your problem and not his problem or a shared problem.

Thank you for sharing here.