Life-lies-trust-SO

[Life-lies-trust]

Well how much longer will the out-laws allow us to work on the issues is the 64k dollar questions that I am now asking. She email today but I have to tell him. She wrote-
"Hi Son,
We hope you are doing well.
Mom & Dad"

I guess I must be the problem and trash to her. GRRRRRRRRRR I'm getting mad again.

Well I did tell him and he had to work to stop getting mad too. Some mothers need to learn that they are not their son's main focus in life. The book toxic parents is helping him deal with this issue.

[artguy34]

Last night I talked with the counselor and I have to decide what to accept in this relationship and what not to accept. I want the lies of partial truths to stop and be finished. I am tired of hearing

"Really that is all that I did" BS statement,
"I do not remember" ,
"I do not like what I have done",
"It's an addiction and he did not have a choice",
"the addiction made the choices".

Do these phrases sound like anyone else has had to listen to? I would like to know when they stop and the truth is finally out in the open?

Any input that anyone can give me would be gladly welcomed.

LLT, I am sorry you are going through this phase right now. In fact it hurts me because it reminds me of what Crisodian and I went through around the time of 60 days of sobriety. I felt good that I reached 60 days and proud. However, my wife had that nagging feeling in her head that she didnt know everything and had wanted to know "everything".

So... she asked me and like the statements you posted, I had much of the same answers.

"I do not remember" ...that is true, I said that same thing. However it was true because I looked at so much crap, done so many things that it is virtually hard to remember them all. The only way it was brought out into the open was because my wife searched and found the answers herself. When she asked me about some of the stuff, I was shocked, hurt and embarrassed all over again. To the point where I was sick and mentally unstable.

"I do not like what I have done" ...that is true as well. However while I was in my throes of addiction, I did like it. To deny that I liked it would be a lie because "hello" i'm an addict right? But now seeing what it has done to my wife because of my selfish needs, I truly hate what I have done and it hurts to think about it. (But I think about it often because it is one of my deterrents for fighting relapses.)

"It's an addiction and he did not have a choice" ...ok on this one I never said that. I did have a choice and I made the choice to view P and seek my satisfaction elsewhere. I knew that because I have been viewing P since before I met my wife. So for me, it was my own outlet for leaving reality and dealing with my own problems. (Yet like many PA's I tried to blame her for some of my issues.)

So after my wife "saw" what I was up to, it was very hard on her and I thought that all my hard efforts to clean myself up were now wasted and gone. However Pandora helped us out during that time and talked about "Failing Forward" and how she and Statler went through the same thing a month earlier. As tough as it was, my wife and I talked things out, came to a resolution and once she knew everything, we were able to continue with our healing.

But... the only way to continue is by staying clean on my part and proving myself by being open and honest and 100% transparent for her. I cannot change the past, but I can shape the future. As long as I can show her I truly love her and care about our family, then little by little, she can begin to trust me, and I can earn that trust back. (Little by little)

The journey is still tough. We have some very hard times when we are stressed out and very irritable. But in the end we both try hard to support each other.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on your situation? As long as DG is committed to healing and supporting you in your healing, you both can have a better future. And if DG is reading this, I hope he does come clean with everything. It is very hard to do, but once it is done, the recovery process becomes easier and the chances of relapsing may decrease as well. Once you hit that ultimate low when all the trash is emptied, you really don't want to go back there. You appreciate what you have in your life and you will do the right things to make yourself better so you can deserve to have your SO by your side.

Good luck to you both!

[Life-lies-trust]

artguy34 thank you for your encouragement and to know that I'm not just bouncing off the walls. I read some of your post to DG and he was happy that this is a normal reaction.

I am also in mixed feeling about the idea that the PA should only celebrate their positive recovery. I think that the PA needs to reflect on what they have done at different times because it will keep them grounded. For DG he has told me that he had no shame or bad feelings about his addiction for decades. It has only been the last year or less that he started to get to the point he was not happy with the addiction. So the thought that the PA should not feel bad about what they have done or reflect on it upsets me because that makes it seem to me that everything is ok now that the PA is trying to overcome the addiction. This also seems that the PA has trashed their SO for years and they only need to think about how they reacted for a few months. It is going to take a LONG time to rebuild what has been a lie for decades. For DG our marriage is new to him and for me it is an old process that has been based on a pile of cr$$ that was a secret hidden pile of lies. This is going to be a long time in recovery and with an addiction are you ever cured or are you always in recovery?

Still trying to balance that my morals in the marriage were trashed and that I have been an object to stay in my corner silent. Then only come out for his pleasure (but be silent) where he could use his fantasy world with me as the image in his mind. A non-feeling, worthless, person who if they were not there matter. On the other hand I'm trying to move forward and help us recover. I'm trying to be positive, caring, loving, and trusting. This is difficult.

What I have been noticing on the board is that the PA hits 60+ days of recovery they are feel good and healing. The PA has said no more addiction I will beat this so they are done with years of problems. The SO's are having a more difficult time because we have to deal with years of garbage that was FORCED on us. I say FORCED because we did not have a choice in this addiction and may not have known what was really going on for days, weeks, years, or decades. This is about the person who is not an addict trying to come to terms with the mind of an addict and what non rational choices they made over and over and over again no matter what hurts were put on others.

[Life-lies-trust]

Well today is my 52 birthday. Guess what DG got me for my Birthday! Yup nothing he only get me a gift if he knows that I have gotten him one. So his giving of a gift is a guilt trip for him. I guess I should not expect much change with him at any point. So when is he going to relapse? We are still not talking to his parents or taking any calls from them.

Well at least I had some students sing me happy birthday.

Sorry about the poor me outlook.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

LLT-

Happy Birthday. Even though things suck for you so much right now, you still deserve a great big HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

I am sorry things are so hard right now. Maybe your husband's gift to you is sobriety?

Hugs and chocolate to you.

[Life-lies-trust]

LLT-
I am sorry things are so hard right now. Maybe your husband's gift to you is sobriety?

Ok that is for this time but what about every time else or the future?3

Just been somewhat depressing. Tired of the "I do not care what we do you decide" this has been the response for years. He is still using this and I'm going to bring this up in my next session.

[Life-lies-trust]

I thing the one area that I have not understood is PA does not just need to acknowledge that they are an addict but that the addiction controlled their actions no matter what else was going on around them. This is difficult for me to rap my mind around but together today we are working on this part of the addiction and what it really means.

Some days I still have issues with his actions and I really would like to hit him over the head about how he acted and buried everything in secrets. Yes this did start when he was a pre-teen but still he did make some of these choices. So I'm still coming to terms with the idea that the addict does not have free will except for serving the addiction. ~X(

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

LLT-

I don't agree that the addict has no free will. They do... and your thread about addicts and choices has input from PAs that backs that up.

The PA has to decide at some point that they want to quit, and if they can't quit on their own (which is the defining point of an addiction IMO), then they have to choose to get help. So, the PA might not be able to quit ON THEIR OWN, but they can quit with help. Do they want to quit? Do they want to get help? Or do they still want a life with P? These are ALL choices.

When does the PA CHOOSE to quit? For a small minority, they choose to quit on their own. For the majority (at least here) its when the CHOICE to continue with P hurts worse than the choice to quit and get help if necessary. When does that happen? For many, obviously, its when they get caught and face losing their partner, family, job, or freedom.

I understand where your anger comes in. Does your husband have an addiction? Yes. Did he have a choice? Yes. So, how do you reconcile those two things? Its hard.

For me, and this is a daily process, I have had to accept that my husband CHOSE the actions that hurt me. He could have quit, he could have gotten help, but he didn't want to. That hurts... every day. Now, he has chosen to quit. Does that make the past all better? No. But I had to figure out for myself if the positives in my marriage outweighed the negatives. I also had to let go of thinking that my husband's PA negated everything else in our marriage. And finally, I had to remember that I meant it when I swore my marriage vows. It was a process, believe me!

I don't find it helpful to think that my husband had no control, because he did. But, I do find it helpful to acknowledge that as an addict, he spent a lot of time and energy in denial of how his actions hurt me and our marriage. Now that he isn't in denial, he can work on making things better on his end, and I can work on my end.

LLT, I hope that time will ease your pain. I hope that your husband will prove himself to you over time. I see so many similarities between how you are feeling now and how I felt a few months ago ( and yesterday /:)). I find that it helps me to remember the good things when I am down so that I can regain some perspective when all I see and think about is P. Maybe you can remind us again about the good things in your marriage?

Sorry this was long! Hugs and chocolate to you.

[Life-lies-trust]

I don't find it helpful to think that my husband had no control, because he did. But, I do find it helpful to acknowledge that as an addict, he spent a lot of time and energy in denial of how his actions hurt me and our marriage. Now that he isn't in denial, he can work on making things better on his end, and I can work on my end.

LLT, I hope that time will ease your pain. I hope that your husband will prove himself to you over time. I see so many similarities between how you are feeling now and how I felt a few months ago ( and yesterday /:)). I find that it helps me to remember the good things when I am down so that I can regain some perspective when all I see and think about is P. Maybe you can remind us again about the good things in your marriage?

Sorry this was long! Hugs and chocolate to you.

WNLM I think part of my problem is that this was a secret for about 30 years. He admits that he never thought or cared how this would affect me. I was not part of his private world and I was NOT to cross that line. This is where he got really cold to me because I would try to cross into his private world by wanting him. He's my husband and I have always had the hots for him. He just showed me that I was ugly and not worth the effort to have an intimate relationship with. For years I though that he might be gay and had even asked him about it. He always gave me and no committal answer.

I also had to let go of thinking that my husband's PA negated everything else in our marriage. And finally, I had to remember that I meant it when I swore my marriage vows. It was a process, believe me!

This is where I hope to reach at some point but I'm trying to work though the hurt, anger, and the be-trail that this addiction has caused. Yes there is a lot of be-trail because I feel that he has had thousands of affairs over the years but he feels that it was not physical with the P and MB so it did not cross the line.

I'm trying to take it one day at a time but it is hard and I feel really beat down about how worthless he saw me. That our marriage was not worth anything compared to his P/MB. That to communicate with me was not worth anything. Yes a lot of this was developed as a child but as an adult you can move past your childhood IF YOU CHOOSE to.

[Life-lies-trust]

Looking inside of myself I think that I aloud this treatment of me. My father always told me that women were to be "bare foot, PG, and in the kitchen" which he meant that the wife was to wait on the the husband's pleasure at any time with no feeling or need for herself. So this is part of my baggage that I have to deal with. I have always felt that he is worth more than me and that I was not to be cared about but must care about everyone else.

YUCK more cr## to deal with now.:((