Middleaged & broken

[Crisodian]

lw-
It sounds like you two have some communication issues to work out between you. I can't offer a lot, but here’s some suggestions you may try ....

1. Set ground rules for emotional conversations: Each person take a turn sharing and listening, without comment or judgment until one partner has finished. Each person should share their feelings as just that ...your feelings. Try starting phrases with "I feel..." It's even acceptable to say things like "I feel hurt that you won’t discuss [insert topic here] with me because it makes me feel you aren't listening to me and my opinion doesn't count. I need to share this with you so we can be open and honest with each other." It's ok to get emotional. It's not ok to sling insults at each other because one or both parties wants to lash out. If it becomes a mud-slinging session, end it.

2. If you try discussing issues with him and he's not willing to participate in a non-hostile or calm manner, end the discussion until cooler heads prevail. Often times it can be easier to say things like "I would like you to think about ...[insert whatever is bothering you here]" so we can talk about it later." And then when everyone is in a good place mentally (calm, cool heads prevailing), have a discussion. Let him get his thoughts and ideas in place before the discussion. It may make him feel less blind-sided or defensive.

3. Use Pandora's suggestion of a time limit. Emotional conversations are hard on everyone. Time limits help balance out the conversation. Even if he wants to continue, he needs to respect that if you ask for a time out, you get one.

4. Always end on something positive. This is one of the most important things my husband and I are working on now during our communication. We may have an emotionally charged conversation, but we always try to end on a positive note.

And, IMHO, if you are ready to face your past, then discuss it. Openly. If once upon a time you were bent on destroying the marriage, then be open and begin the conversation with why you have changed your mind. He needs to hear it. IMO, it sounds like you both need to clear the air.

Fear is very natural. I found that admitting my past issues to my husband (and I’ve got some BIG ones….) helped a lot in the open communication part of the challenges he and I face. There comes a point where this is about the couple, not only about P or MB, or even addiction. I was terrified to tell him about some of the things in my past. But I felt it was the only way to be truly open and honest. If I expect him to be 100% honest and transparent with me, 100% of the time, then I need to be with him as well.

Find a path to peace, and know you are not alone on the journey.

Be strong.

*hugs*
~C~

[artguy34]

lw,

Crisodian makes a good suggestion with the above post. The reason being is that as her husband and an addict, I have come to the realization that I am guilty of being defensive. She even pointed it out to me on Wednesday night.

Not to make excuses, but PA users or any addicts in general get defensive by nature because we are used to the shame in what we did, used to the guilt we felt that we were doing something we knew was wrong. Even when we are in a conversation about something we as guys may get defensive.

Speaking as the PA, I will say it has worked for Crisodian and I to talk everynight and discuss things in a civilized manner. However in order to get to that point, she needed to know the whole truth from me. And as she stated, part of her commitment to our conversations was that she told me about her past. It not only made me appreciate her strength to admit her past, but also made me feel secure in myself to say "Hey I really can tell her everything." It is that fear we have that holds us back. Without that fear, the walls were broken down and our communication is much better.

I hope this helps from a guys point of view?

[statler]

This is a good discussion, everybody. I'm Pandora's husband and a PA (clean now for 51 days, that feels great, btw.), and I think one of the things we're getting at here beyond, and in addition to, the PA-SO disconnect, is the male-female disconnect. Talking, for lots of women, improves things: it makes them feel better. Most men, I think, need to be doing something. We're not so good at talking, or if we are good at it, it just doesn't feel like it fixes anything. And that's one of the things that men are all about: fixing stuff.

But, fellow addicts, this is just too big a break. When we became PA's we broke our SO's trust, spirit, and even their feelings of self-love and worth. And we look back at all this wreckage we've caused and maybe we just freeze up. We don't know what to do about it. Oh, we know we can't do any porn or masturbate: that part's easy enough to figure. But how do you get trust back when you've so thoroughly shown that you don't deserve to be trusted? How do you put this person that you love back together? How do we make our SO's believe that we, and more importantly, that they are lovable?

I don't know those answers, but I suspect that we don't. We can't fix this. But I'm hoping that if I keep doing what I've been doing: coming on this site, trying my best to be honest and transparent with Pandora and with all of you, trying to be someone I"M proud of, trying to be someone truly worthy of love...maybe some of this will prove to her that I love her more than I can even express most of the time, that I can't even imagine a life without her, especially a life that I destroyed. I wouldn't be able to live with that and I just hope that there's a tiny bit of progress each day and that it someday snowballs into something we can really sink our teeth into.

And you guys and girls, you PA's and SO's, you fellow sufferers and broken, imperfect beings who are also trying your best to be your best: I can't do it without you. Thank you, all of you for being here, for writing and for reading.

I feel deep within us that we can do this together. We all deserve to be happy and to be loved and to be the best we can be: without this dark, insidious addiction having any power over us.

[statler]

LW, I'm just curious, why hasn't your husband checked us out here? I've never noticed any religion spewing or anybody being self-righteous in these parts. We're just all trying to support each other. Maybe we could help.

[little_wife]

Thank you all for your understanding. >:D< crisodian, artguy34, statler. I didn't mean to just disappear like that, but sometimes life gets in the way. And in my case that's a good thing, it helps me from letting M's problem overwhelm me. I've been putting a lot of time in on some rewarding hobbies of mine. I think it's almost essential for an SO to step away sometimes.

Thank you for your suggestions, crisodian & artguy. We'll definately try some of them. We have not yet went back to the subject though, and I haven't had the heart or even time to address it yet again. So my "sins" are still yet to be discussed. Most the times our communications and discussions are handled calmly and lovingly. But then there are other times, I don't know if it's mood, or we're tired that day or what, all our good intention tend to break down. At least as of yet, we haven't again made it into a taboo subject.

Statler, in response to your question: he still seems very sensitive about anything addressing this issue. I've given him the link, but as far as I know he promptly deleted it. This isn't to say he isn't trying, because he is. He's just doing it in his own way, and keeping in his comfort zone.

[Crisodian]

I didn't mean to just disappear like that, but sometimes life gets in the way. And in my case that's a good thing, it helps me from letting M's problem overwhelm me. I've been putting a lot of time in on some rewarding hobbies of mine. I think it's almost essential for an SO to step away sometimes.

Life sure can get in the way. I can empathise completely with that statement right now. But I agree, finding other things to focus on and do, that don't involve addressing PA issues (or even life-in-general issues), really is important for SOs. What kind of hobbies do you enjoy?

Most the times our communications and discussions are handled calmly and lovingly. But then there are other times, I don't know if it's mood, or we're tired that day or what, all our good intention tend to break down.

AG & I have been working hard on the same issue. In the past, I have had a tendency to be abrupt, aggressive, and even down right snappish. I used to be exceptional at sticking my foot in my mouth up to my knee-cap. AG would get defensive and short tempered, and the conversation would not be productive.

Someone I work with gave me a piece of advice not long ago having to do with communication. He suggested I take a piece of paper and write the word "Pause" on it and stick in where I can see it all the time. (To be honest I told him he was nuts until he explained...lol) Basically it is a reminder to yourself, when you are in a tough communication situation, to stop, take a breath, collect your thoughts, pause, and then say what you need to say.

On bad days, I use that trick before I open up and talk to AG. I know it has helped me communicate better with him and puts me in the right frame of mind not to have a communication breakdown. And if I find I can't get my head in a good place to have a level-headed conversation, I "pause" until I can.

Good luck on your journey. Find peace.

~C~

[little_wife]

AG & I have been working hard on the same issue. In the past, I have had a tendency to be abrupt, aggressive, and even down right snappish. I used to be exceptional at sticking my foot in my mouth up to my knee-cap. AG would get defensive and short tempered, and the conversation would not be productive.

Someone I work with gave me a piece of advice not long ago having to do with communication. He suggested I take a piece of paper and write the word "Pause" on it and stick in where I can see it all the time. (To be honest I told him he was nuts until he explained...lol) Basically it is a reminder to yourself, when you are in a tough communication situation, to stop, take a breath, collect your thoughts, pause, and then say what you need to say.

thank you! Yes, i certainly can do the short-tempered, snappish thing---especially when there are unresolved issues. I think that was part of the reason we finally started addressing the whole P issue. The anger was often directed at things that had nothing to do with it, but were safe. I totally LOVE the "Pause" idea. So it really does work? I am going to try it, let M know what it's for also, maybe we can both do it.

My non-TTF hobbies ;) that have been consuming so much time recently are college classes and endurance running/fitness. Had an amazing race on Saturday---up & down mountains, Yay! One of my classes is a creative writing class---lots of writing & I'm totally loving it. I'd almost forgotten I was creative at all.
Other then that, reading, Buddhism & meditation, art, & keeping an eye on & chauffering teenagers around! How 'bout yourself & others? My guess is that while both PA's (while in the addiction) & SO's (while finally confronting & facing our spouses addiction), we tend to give up our hobbies at least to some degree. I'm working to reclaim them & myself.

[Crisodian]

thank you! Yes, i certainly can do the short-tempered, snappish thing---especially when there are unresolved issues. I think that was part of the reason we finally started addressing the whole P issue. The anger was often directed at things that had nothing to do with it, but were safe. I totally LOVE the "Pause" idea. So it really does work? I am going to try it, let M know what it's for also, maybe we can both do it.

YES! It does work ... surprisingly well as it were. If I find myself getting to the point where my mouth is going to respond before my brain does :-o , I pause. I usually take a deep breath, for real, and do some relaxing breathing for a moment to clear my head. I think I have much more control over my temper and interactions in general. It also works really well for me at work. I have a high stress job which can include lots of tense communications. Before I reply or react to a phone call or email that I KNOW is going to raise my emotional level (including stress), the pause technique is invaluable. The people I interact with have also noticed a difference...LOL.

My non-TTF hobbies ;) that have been consuming so much time recently are college classes and endurance running/fitness. Had an amazing race on Saturday---up & down mountains, Yay! One of my classes is a creative writing class---lots of writing & I'm totally loving it. I'd almost forgotten I was creative at all.
Other then that, reading, Buddhism & meditation, art, & keeping an eye on & chauffering teenagers around! How 'bout yourself & others?

WOW! Busy! And I thought my schedule was full. ^:)^ I started having children later in life so I have 2 small boys under the age of 5. They are VERY time consuming...lol. Aside from that I am an avid reader. I can read a full novel a day. I love to write creatively. I used to be very big into graphic design and 3D art, but I have strayed away from that. One of these days I will get back to it.

I love to be doing anything creative. Love cooking. (Hate the cleaning up part as AG will attest to...*smirk*) I love to dance. We started learning latin dances last year. One of these days when I have time, I want to go back and take more lessons. We had so, so much fun!

I love to bike ride and generally get outdoors when I have time. Which seems to be in very short supply these days ....

My guess is that while both PA's (while in the addiction) & SO's (while finally confronting & facing our spouses addiction), we tend to give up our hobbies at least to some degree. I'm working to reclaim them & myself.

Unfortunately most of my time is dedicated to others still. I know I need to reclaim my own hobbies and time, it's just finding the time to do it...lol But I agree. I think when we become consumed as SOs with our PAs or even life in general, we tend to put our "self" and taking time for ourselves last on the list.

That is definitely something I need to work on for myself.

~C~

[little_wife]

What a lovely post, crisodian! I feel like I'm very busy, but you're in a place where i was about 10 years ago. I have neither small children, nor a full time job. I still remember how stressed I'd get back then when I did. I'd think "if only the kids were older." Now I wish I could have some of that time back! And reading for pleasure, I think I forgot how to for a few years. I can assure you, that one day you WILL have more time, though maybe not a lot.

When this came up last May, I had waaaaay too much time to think, and then giving up my running & meditating so I wouldn't give M alone time to go back to his old habits didn't help! At some point I had to give up & realize I had to trust him.

As far as hobbies, you could be me! Except for dance....I have NO rhythm and am totally tone deaf. How odd, when i came to this web site, I wouldn't have thought I'd be meeting creative, people who are anything like myself other then their being PAs & SOs. VEry nice :)

And again, the Pause idea sounds great for any communication situation. I might as well give it a shot. Thank you!

[artguy34]

LW,

Crisodian is very correct. I notice in her when we talk that she'll take a deep breath, then continue talking in a mild manner so we can finish our conversation of topic. I am just as guilty for snapping too and being defensive. This however is working out for the both of us in communicating better and for me to be open about myself.

I know its tough for you to mention to your husband about TTF and porn in general, but if you can get him to open up to others about it and try to see how others are working on thier addictions, the difference is like night and day. Keeping things inside and closed up will wear down on a persons psyche. Opening up to my wife and here on TTF has helped me feel better about myself, but made me feel like that big heavy weight is off my chest and I can now recover from this addiction.

I hope this helps?