Love and Fear - flame2amoth's Journal

[flame2amoth]

Once upon a time....
I responded to a thread this morning, and I am beginning my Journal with the crux of how I responded. I had a counselor once who suggested I write...just get started and write...even if its just one word, over and over again.
I think, and maybe like many of you, I find it hard to know where to get started. So I am applying her advice to me with my interpretation and intent...just get Started, the rest will flow. Here is my post, here is my Start.
I am extremely new at this, but your post hit on something I have been trying to sort out...which has prompted me to consider a journal here. I am very much a newbie here, and one of the goals here for me is to get support and try to be as honest as I can with myself and others.
I am a counselor by profession....and I am prefacing all that I say henceforth as a matter of honesty...but whatever the "mixture" is, in my replies or posts, I guess it boils down to subjective and objective preceptions.
I cant have both preceptions and be my own counselor...but I will add my thoughts here to see if they elicit responses.
When I have talked/counseled with others in regards to their behaviors, feelings, etc. I tend to come to a point in *their* story where I ask...."so, what's the pay-off here?" This question does not fall primarily on any one issue Believe me, being a counselor and a SO, the question begs myself to answer too....Other questions..."What part of my significant other's addiction am I addicted to?" For example, upon close introspection, I have found many of my behaviors and thoughts are related to self-esteem, or plainly put....being enough for my husband to stop porn...and that leads into a web of "being enough for", etc. etc. And if I become "enough" and "cure" him, then I wont have the need to be this crazed person I see.
I am not religious...at best, I am Spiritual, but one of my fav authors is a Unitarian minister named, Marianne Williamson. Some of her thoughts have really helped me, and one that really illuminated my vision was that all emotion can be narrowed down to Love or Fear. This takes time to break it all down for each of us....but no doubt....Control is Fear.
Curing my husband....how does that break down????? What does that all say about me. I feel the support I read in our threads when I read, "This addiction is not about me/you...it is about the PA" But, I also, ask myself, am I enabling...?
I have worked with people dealing with Panic Attacks. Dang, I know alot of people who shop at Wal-mart from the hours of 1am-4am simply to avoid being in a huge crowd at Wal-Mart. Crowds elicit their panic attacks. However, within the last few years, I have wondered about an addiction to having a Panic Attack...somewhat based on neurochemicals, Adrenalin, etc.
All Im saying is...take this journey here...be willing to break it all down, fear and love...and "the pay-off" Believe me, I am not advising you...my motivation ...intent is deal with those same questions.
I wish for all of us a honest return to our Authentic Self, and to be in a safe place within our lives....in order to be a sane Partner with those we chose ...maybe choices are not always easy...but they are always there. Peace to you and those you Love! Marti

[cmperry]

Wow, what a wonderful self assesment, I am anxious to see your journal grow as it seems you have alot of wonderful thoughts that can help the rest of us assess ourselves as well, thank you so much for this post it has given me much food for thought.

[flame2amoth]

As if I dont have enough questions "pre" TTF...as I read threads etc, I am given new contemplations, applications to my own journey. And, of course, that is one of the intentions of this forum.
One thread I read today was from a member who's partner did not care...hmmm, well maybe it was about it didnt affect her self-esteem. I stood back from that feeling amazed...but then I felt jealous. Jealous of her capacity to hold her own (T)ruth about herself. Wanting to be able to hold my own self back up to that light of wholeness. Yes, there was a time.
I feel a need to name my demons...I see them, I, in some way create them, and I keep them. How far do I want to go back in this journal...to my birth, maybe so, because inevitably, I search for reasons. And that is maybe more part of my nature than circumstance.
I have counseled many women who seem to end up in bad relationships..as if they wear a neon sign that flashes, "Martyr of the Century...bring it ON" It took me awhile to educate myself...gain insight to why women stay in abusive relationships. No, this is not a comparison to the women or men who have no prob with their Significant Other dealing with PA. Im just comparing certain life experiences. I have a history that I shared with my husband that beg's the question..."now ya know where my head and heart is..you know, a whole lot about what makes me "me"...Why hasn't this been a consideration in what you do?" These sort of questions play a part in my mental and emotional file of self-concept.
I have addictions too...and some I have wrapped up and tossed out for a better way..they are still a part of me in a sense that they become assorted cogs and gears in the wheel of understanding.
I chain-smoke, my SO(in relationship to my addiction, he is the SO) hates it...I hate it to some degree, but even knowing what I know, I still havent reached a place to quit...."a rose by any other name, is still a rose"
I find myself, when it has come up, wanting to say..."yeah, I smoke..its killing me, you hate it...but it's not as bad as porn." Hmmmm, I love rationality! An arguement would be...porn is more insidious, it stricks at the core of intimacy, trust, and the list can be added too...And because of my anger(fear) my thoughts have caused me all sorts of rationale. But when I step back...and recall the elements of addiction...is my addiction any less debilitating than his? And if I quit..as I have thought as a means of retaliation(oh this craziness), would I use that as a weapon and sabatoge building a better relationship. Why shouldn't I quit, just cause its good for me?
When my daughter was growing up(still is, she's 19), the majority of my life decisions were formed on the question: Will this be good for my daughter, will this be good for me..it was a Mantra and it worked. I dont think I have ever been so focused...those first 16 years of her life. My whole life after my 1st husband died was about being responsible...a word I had often cast to the wind ...but Love changed my Life. I went to college(found out I was intelligent), provided for us and to the community(productive) and had a sense of real self esteem and belonging. *Mental note: You need to go back and write more about life events that give you clues to the present...
The other thing I am taking on and have already felt, but didnt realize, was this compulsion to "blame", ridicule, and all those revengeful things I want to and do give to my husband...I hate that...yet I need that...sick huh?
I read something about "Judgement Day" once, it may have been Sylvia Browne's explanation about what happens when you die...her books on near death experiences..etc. Anyway, the explanation was that when God judges you at that time, He gives you the ability to experience every pain or wrong you have given others...humans have the capacity to feel empathy and sympathy, but we dont have the capacity to really take on the individual experience of the other person.
When I read that..Mercy, it scared me...And I think of that sometimes when I am raging...because I am playing God in an egotistical venue....Dang, I dont want you(my husband) to wait till Judgement Day to be able to feel how Im feeling now...I want to Bring this Hell to your Doorstep...and if I can manipulate(fear) this extensively enough...I can cure you....foolish woman......it just creates another layer of fear.
And I will have to answer for it too.
But at least for now, after reading other member's threads, both PA's and SO's, I have gained some insight to my own behaviors and behaviors I need to address..the demons.
I have so much to do....but will allow the process in order to hold myself back up to the Light.
It's incredible ...everyone's stories...its been cathartic to join this group of traveler's here, all of us along some kind of continuium, yet the goal the same...healing. One thing I do know, I have never been nor am I comfortable with porn....and yeah there is somewhat of a continuium in regards to that core value...which I need to journal about...
Later...

[flame2amoth]

Had fun with my husband friday nite...went to a BBQ event in town...we live in the country, and we both tend to want to stay right there. Anyway, it was good to go out with him and be carefree.
Sat nite, we sat in our fav, double recliner(as we always do) and he had his lap top...he rarely uses the puter at home anymore without me being right there...a change that was brought on by PA, We went to Netflix, where he has had an account for ...well pre-me, and we viewed the Queue. There was a movie there that had a title that was a red flag, and we looked at its contents...I asked him, "Is this movie a trigger?" He quickly responded, "I dont know.", and rushed right thru, continuing viewing "titles". Well...my motivation, was to start a discussion...instead it catapulted me into a downward spiral.
Early in our relationship, he had said he would like to watch an erotic movie with me...there were lots of things we had talked about in that venue...we bought toys, etc...talked dirty to each other,...mercy....but that was before I knew how immersed he was. So Im not saying I didnt know about the use of porn....he told me liked to read erotic stories..I just didnt know how much. And, I really thought it was a "turn-on" that he wanted to share that with me...but I was looking at it thru a different lens...I saw the end result as how it would affect us...he did, after all, open sexual vitality in me..that no one else had...
Well, I got defensive...not about the movie, it was about being blown off, and did his answer, now leave finding out if the movie would be a trigger, up for grabs...mercy, it went downhill. Staying up most of the night keeping a heated emotional discussion going.
During that discussion, he stated he didnt know why he just didnt delete it off the queue...he had also stated that his response to my question was about...1) fear of where I was going with that question, 2) there was a possibility of being a trigger...of course, my thinking was...well if (2) is true, he had his answer of whether he should delete it or not...
He said I should have been more aggressive about just telling him to delete it...damn...why do ya have to do that...why is it not evident...rationalization.
He has characterized in 3 parts and given us names/attributes...one has to do strictly with being his sexual partner...one has to do with his partner/friend in all things, and the third is his counselor, his confidant(sp?), his advisior. Over the course of our own..Through the flame...I have analysed this subject to death, and his motivations...but I did say, it was hard...to be his counselor in this subject, because of the emotionality..the fear. On Sunday he said, he recognizes now that I can't be his counselor in this because of that reason...it hurt...and made me even more fearful, because If I couldnt, then who would he turn to.
In comparison, I believe his use of porn has cut down ...he says he doesnt read the literature anymore...but I have possible evidence that he has...as early as Aug07. He states, that at work, they are very vigilant about cyber use, etc. But he also has, not only his destop, but he has a Lap Top. And the Lap Top is not tapped in to that system..even though, they could view it anytime. In additon, he is an expert on ZIP files and encryption....and I am a dunce...
So....I really dont know. I confronted him with the evidence 2 weeks ago...this website where he stored all his stories, and could access more. This website, that he did not cancel his subscription, until I confronted him...but ya know what..he had the capability and the means to save and download all those stories on some storage device..zipandencrypt..and no one would be the wiser....
But, my point is, and I said it too him, is that he has been fighting this battle alone...the only time it has come up between us is when Im on a roll over something I have tripped over...or the fact that he has lost his sexual drive. He has asked me..."well, I havent read any porn, etc since...etc...and dont you think thats progress" Well hell yes...but Im also interested in his process...I also wanted/want to be a part of that...as to somehow take the edge of this topic off for me, and yeah, to anaylze faulty reasoning, etc.
Im still not in a good place today, even though by yesterday after noon...this pit bull decided to let go...
Im messed up...and I hate that...

[flame2amoth]

My husband is a good man...I have noticed I havent talked too favorable...and I need too..because, btw, I Love Him. His Positives outweigh the Negatives in many ways.
Monday, I returned from the laundromat(grrr..the washer not working)...anyway, it is rare that he is on his own here at home. Opposed to me being here always. Yes, it is me not wanting him to be alone...this is, in part, why I dont get a job. We also communicate by phone whenever we are able and are not together. He was dealing with a problem at work and had to use the computer. And we were talking during this time...so......there was a space of time when we couldnt talk, and I arrived home and he was busy on the puter at the kitchen bar.
Seeing him there did send a wave of deja vu...when we were dating, the wkend that he met my daughter...we happened upon him, at the kitchen bar on the computer. My daughter did not see what was on the puter screen...but I did, and it was page after page of titles of erotic stories.... Ive asked myself so many times..why we stayed.
But the visual cue monday nite did not stick, I just came on in and greeted him and went on with preparing dinner while we talked. After dinner, we were embracing and he mentioned(with a smile) that he was on the puter and not on porn...referencing that in his statement to the same deja vu thing. I hugged him closer and said, "Baby, I dont always think that way."
We had just had a hellish Sat nite into Sun morn, discussing what I have journaled earlier. In the throws of some of these emtionally charged discussions, he will proclaim he hasnt had anything to do with porn, and one time he stated that he has resisted going to the local strip bar that he use to freguent(he would tell me he use to go because he was loney). His statement was, Passing *S*(the strip joint), I would start wondering how the girls are doing there, but I have never stopped to go in." Okay...so did that mean he was loney, even though he was with me...or, the reality was about...been lying to me/himself about why he went
Nevertheless, the point is, any type of sharing with me about his progress has been coming out in this type of conversation. So in this vain, I am in a defensive mod.
He has chosen and admits to working on this issue alone, and I have recented that...
But, I started thinking about his statement to me after dinner. It was celebratory in his expression, and did not send me into a spiral...I felt like he, for the first time was sharing with me.
Last nite, I told him, that I was sorry I did not say anymore than I did about his "victory", his sharing surprized me, and I didnt know how much or little to say. But I wanted him to know that I was grateful for what he shared and the willingness to share it with me. I shared with him the difference of emotion it brought to the table of understanding, and I was able to hear him from a more loving stance and partnership.
I hope this continues...I hope I continue being loving...

[Jacinda24]

Hi Marti! I just stumbled upon your journal and wanted to say Thank you for sharing. It is always refreshing and at the same time disheartening to read a new journal by an SO. I did however find it interesting about your husband visiting the strip club, because within the past month or so I learned my partner ventured there as well from time to time and I was downright shocked and very hurt. It just hit me harder on the inside then P because these were real women with real skin and bodies, it makes me feel nauseous just thinking about it. AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! But now that I got that out-lol-Thank you. I'm wishing you and your husband the best! Keep us updated!

[Paul James]

Many thanks, Marti; the quick reply really made me feel welcome when I plucked up courage & wrote a bit about myself in the new members area. Only 4 days clean so far, but I know from past experience the crunch will probably come in 2 or 3 weeks. I'll be starting my own journal so not much more in the New Members forum. Really impressed by your posts - good to read stuff by someone who's really thought about the issues. Best wishes, Paul.

[flame2amoth]

My husband's son and wife had their first baby, which makes me a 1st time Grandma#:-sBut its all good, lol!
Havent entered too much lately, but nothing really preplexing going on....I think one of the effects of porn for the SO is that...well, I guess I should speak for just myself..but, its my constant vigilance. Unlike many SO's here, my husband is/was not flagrant about his use of porn. Like I have posted before, his "porn of choice" is erotic literature(as far as I know). And since he cant read it here at home...I would imagine he has stories and whatever downloaded/saved on a removable drive. I just dont know, and he swears he doesnt...
It is inevitably about trust. I think one of the scariest things is that the types of stories he has/had ranged from normal sex relationship to incest, children, etc.
I think all this post is about having a grandchild...makes my stomach jump...I remember him saying some inappropriate things at one point...about my daughter...whew..just cant go there...he seems so different now, and says its about how much he loves me...

[flame2amoth]

Hmmm...what started it...
We very rarely make love thru the week....unless I initiate it. But on wkends, I usely wake up very early on my own, and after I am up for awhile and fully awake, and feel that he has slept in for awhile...I make my way back into the bedroom...He was already up and dressed. Yeah, I got defensive...and then he wanted to go back to bed...but whatever I had in my "need" list...want....it dissolved. Lying there with him...and believe me we have had this discussion before....I tried to find answers...I finally asked, "Okay, I will make it easy for you..on a scale from 1 - 10 where do you rank your sexual drive...
Ranked sexual drive at a 5
Ranked wanting to be with me at a 10
Ranked wanting to have sex with other people at a 2
This man just a little over a year ago was seemingly highly sexual...and it was aimed all at me...and when he has admitted that he lost his sex drive it was at the time I put my foot down about Porn...it was also at the time he returned to work after having knee surgery. He suffers from neuropathy...and takes many different meds...and I try to weed out what is pain(medical)or...what is porn....
It was another tortureous conversation....and I go inward feeling Im to blame because I find it hard to let go...I find it hard to believe him that he is not still a consumer of porn and just better at hiding it.
He states that he is in pain alot of the time with his legs...and I remind him that he seems to be pretty motivated when it comes to woodworking(a shared passion)...that I have seen him work all day and then come home and work here.....And I am hurt that the same motivation/intent doesnt flow thru to our intimacy...he did rank being in the work shop with me at 8...but it almost turned me off of working with him there...I really wanted to leave this wkend...but it was something I go thru when everything seems so foggy...I hate that, cause I just feel hopeless.
I was thinking this morning that if he has quit, Im probably turning him completely off...
What I really want is this to all go away, and go back to where I knew nothing..ignorance is bliss...maybe..I know thats not true...but I go back to my memories of how he was toward me way too often..and to the pain of finding out about porn...
My mood swings seem to be like that of someone dealing with Bi-Polar...I get resolved to fight back and gather all the good and do what needs to be down as a fulfilling partner ....then I will swing back ...

[flame2amoth]

Mercy, its almost been a month....
Even though I visited everyday...cathartic necessity...I sometimes just cant post. Sometimes its because nothing inspiring to say, or I get bogged down by the stories I read here...they are both inspiring and depressing.
My husband's relationship with his two son's are hmmm, somewhat tenuous...but the relationship with the son who just had our grandchild is very perplexing. But this is not the place to go into that issue. Except that we went to see our new grandchild..and they seemed distant...and then they had created a website featuring family photos with our grand daughter...but they did not refer to me as Grandma...just by my name...
I am the 4th wife, and fairly new at that, but the rest of the "blood" relatives and their spouses are given the titles of aunt and uncle so & so....So I guess its longevity that counts..anyway it hurt..oh well!
The situation really hasn't changed, if he is still involved with porn he hides it by both action and deed...however, I am getting worse.
I do feel like a prisoner here...of my own device and I told him that...constantly vigilant about the computer, spending way too much time trying to understand file names, winzip, and anything that looks as if it would cover up what he is wanting to hide. Then the other nite, he started talking about the new security measures they are taking at his work..and someone there has an "IronKey" removable storage ...it is a perfect device to hide anything you want to hide...including keylogging. He noticed I turned Melancholy as soon as he was talking about it..and ofcourse the next day, I looked it up....omgoodness..everything you enter is encrypted...yeah, you can do a search and see just what I mean. So, filters wouldnt affect it at all...
He told me I could look at it anytime...and of course my thoughts where...hmmm, ya gonna bring it home everynite, or even worse, would I even believe that I was seeing everything on there...prob not.
I need to get up and out and go back to work. I wish I was like one of our newer members, and other SO's I have read, regarding not searching for proof of porn...Trust! But I have been so hurt and fearful that I stay on guard of everything...
I have read so many SO's staying in relationships where over and over again there was a relapse~X(I wonder which is worse, knowing or spending so much time trying to find out...it's just craziness.
I have been having daily headaches when I wake up...and I get little done, and I know this is depression....duh! But, I must break this cycle..this spiral..I guess the 2 main fears, is 1) if I return to a more independent person, then he will have opportunity...2) if I return to a more independent person, I will leave...are you wondering why there are no positive outcomes...well there may be one...Some sort of Sanity...