Why doesn't he get it?

[no_excuses]

Deelmo, thanks for the nod. Side note, I'm a bit confused, you're an SO, but you're posting here as a PA? I must be misreading something. At any rate, your opinions show a big heart and I agree with many of your points. Part of addiction is isolation and selfishness - we isolate ourselves on multiple levels and by that same action reject others who want to be closer. I think how this separation and selfishness fit into the marriage as a whole can vary. There are marriages where they're a recurrent damaging theme, with or without the presence of P. It sounds like in your case and DH's, they were strongly present along with the addiction, and yeah, that's a tough combo. There is a note you struck, however, that worried me a bit. You wrote that "love is about servitude" and "it needs to be ALL about her." This sounds to me like a pendulum, pushed by painful self-realizations and guilt, swinging back hard in the opposite direction than it's previously gone. You were all about yourself, now you're all about your SO. I feel that both perspectives are unsustainable. You've obviously seen what selfishness leads to, so that's clearly destructive. At the same time, being entirely focused on someone else can cause us to neglect exploring the very root causes of our problems, and can prevent us from taking the slow journey to self-discovery and true empowerment. I would respectfully disagree and say that love is about true partnership, not servitude. In a partnership, we often put our partner first out of love and mutual respect. I guess servitude for me has a bad ring to it. No one who is addicted to anything can be their full potential as a partner. And indeed you and I (and every other PA) are coming to terms with not being as good a H as we thought we were. But then putting yourself aside in desperation to heal someone else will prevent you from being your full potential as an individual. With complete honesty between people, we can be both individuals AND partners. Whereas if something's missing, relationships become a painful, suspicious tug-of-war for intimacy and trust. And I think that brings us back to the issue DH raised. DH - my apologies for taking so long to reach a point on your thread. Everything I've read suggests to me your H is still not being honest even with himself about his addiction and its root causes. I hope he does so and you both can have an open conversation about ALL feelings, and then partner together on a recovery plan.

[Disillusioned]

No_excuses,
Your mantra seems a rewording of a promise the Bible makes for times of trouble when it would seem there is nothing clear that should be done or effective, and that is give it to God.
I believe the promise is, "Be still, and know that I am God." I think that is the same thing...empty your mind, calm it, and let it feel the beauty and healing of the present, weightless and free. I like your version too. Good thinking.

[no_excuses]

Glad you like it. It's a Taoist practice, and Taoism has a lot in common with the core of Christianity.

[Deelmo]

To No Excuses,

Sorry, my post was a bit confusing. My name is R**(PA) my wife D****(SO). She was reading this thread and ask me if I could help, replied on her login. When I say servitude, I didn't mean as in "servitude""slave""wait on her hand and foot" (although I do now love doing that, I meant servitude of the heart, to put no one or no thing(p**n) above her. It has been a year since Dday in our house, so yes, I am still in recovery. But I am in couseling and group therapy and dealing with my issues also. My real problems being lonliness (kids are grown and gone) aging (:( don't we all), a changing life style(too much time and not enough healthful hobbies). When I say "ALL about her" I mean that I know now I need to be there for her emotionally ALWAYS. No more isolation, no more withdrawal. Everything needs to be out in the open and dealt with ALWAYS. I just want to let all you SO knows that I finnally did "get it". Hang in there, there is hope for you. Be strong. If you can find the strength in heart forgive your PA, please work it, even if it's just "baby steps".

[stillinlove]

Deelmo - I, too, was a practicing Taoist (I used to say I was a Christian Taoist). And I'm 58.
Alot of the practices and writings are one and the same. The teaching from St. Francis of Assisi says it all.
Alot of us SOs have taken a Zen approach to this addiction with how it affects us and our PAs. It's the only way to stay sane. The only way to stay present.
It is the most compassionate way to act with another being trying to get through life, just like us. We each have our history, the PA is just one of the symptoms that is hiding all the others. Once we get past those symptoms, we can see our true selves.
The world is a reflection of ourselves. What we see in others is an image of ourselves.
It seems that while the focus is on the PA, the focus comes off the SO. Yet, we just mirror each other. What we ask of the PAs, is it something we ourselves do?
(rhetorical) We want to feel love, are we giving love? We want understanding, are we understanding? We want them to feel and know our pain. Do we know and feel theirs?
I'm grateful I have had my training in Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, trans-personal living. The actual practices and exercises that are given with the teachings were the way to an open heart for me.
I remember getting caught up in my husband's addiction and acting out of sorts (to say the least) until that sudden jolt, eye awakening moment that brought me back to my center. Remember who I am. That has been my mantra.
Those that ask, when will they get it? IMO, they get it when they get it. At a true bottom (not a rest stop) where there is no longer any place to hide. BUT, they need to feel safe in order to reveal themselves.
When I witness a behavior in my husband that I don't understand, Sure I would like him to act and behave the way I would want him to, instead I turn my thoughts to how painful life had been for him growing up that indoctrinated him into a way of being. Same for me. I know he would like me to do certain things different, or act differently in certain situations, but he understands why I am the way I am sometimes. We can learn from each other, by example. I can't expect something from him just to make my life easier.
I have read many posts relating knowledge of a spiritual nature, religious nature. One of the main teachings is forgiveness. Yet, so many hold on to their shield of anger and pain to protect themselves. We need to become just as vulnerable as we want them to become.
Well, I'll get off my soapbox. My apologies if I have offended anyone.

[no_excuses]

Deelmo, I think I understand better now, thanks. And I think a lot of us PAs have dealt with those same problems that lead to p use.

Stillinlove, that was very deep, selfless wisdom. Indeed the way out of shame, isolation and bad habits is through honesty and a lot of personal work, and as you pointed out, that just doesn't happen until we hit rock bottom AND we feel safe enough to reveal ourselves. You had so many good points in your post, it's easy to see you're a veteran.