Does Arrogance play a role in addiction ?

[maggie]

I understand how depression or frustration or lonliness may lead a person down the path of addiction... whether it's drugs, alcohol or pornography & mb.

Fortunate people, men & women, seem to be able to put things in perspective, do what they can to remedy a bad situation and just cope better with life's challenges and disappointments. I get that. I always admired friends & co-workers who functioned so well under stress and keep plugging along to get the job done.... regardless of criticism lack of support.

So, I've been trying to look at PA as an inappropriate form of coping with life's challenges.
A man's inability to stay focused on what is productive, beneficial, and what is of value. A sort of selfish - immature acting out or escape. This view of this problem gives me great empathy for anyone caught in this trap.

But... why do I see so much arrogance with this addiction ?

The arrogant excuses: all guys do this, it doesn't hurt anyone, what's wrong with a thrill.

The arrogant attitude: I'm not as sick as those guys are, I never joined a chatroom, I never paid for it..... I don't need therapy, why don't you just get over it cause I stopped.

The arrogant behaviors: Sneaking a look at someone attractive, insisting that they are in total control and do not need filters, defending questionable behavior that is not clearly wrong but definitely risky for a PA, maintaining private accounts...not bad accts but private.

I find all of this to emit a sense of entitlement, being better than others or arrogance.

It's not as easy to feel empathy for someone acting out of arrogance as it is to have supportive feelings for someone who is lacking coping skills.

Arrogance ?

[WayFarerNation]

I think it's easy to see P as a way to take one's mind off their troubles. If somebody doesn't know what I'm going through and they try to tell me how to deal with my problems, I might perceive their wish to help me as an attack. So that could explain why it appears arrogant to you. You demonstrated that you understand this in your post.

Maybe if you tried to understand what was really bothering the person and not focusing on their use of P, their arrogance would subside. Trying to attack their use of P head on without understanding the underlying reasons for doing so may just be the wrong approach.

[bethann27]

I understand how depression or frustration or lonliness may lead a person down the path of addiction... whether it's drugs, alcohol or pornography & mb.

Fortunate people, men & women, seem to be able to put things in perspective, do what they can to remedy a bad situation and just cope better with life's challenges and disappointments. I get that. I always admired friends & co-workers who functioned so well under stress and keep plugging along to get the job done.... regardless of criticism lack of support.

So, I've been trying to look at PA as an inappropriate form of coping with life's challenges.
A man's inability to stay focused on what is productive, beneficial, and what is of value. A sort of selfish - immature acting out or escape. This view of this problem gives me great empathy for anyone caught in this trap.

But... why do I see so much arrogance with this addiction ?

The arrogant excuses: all guys do this, it doesn't hurt anyone, what's wrong with a thrill.

The arrogant attitude: I'm not as sick as those guys are, I never joined a chatroom, I never paid for it..... I don't need therapy, why don't you just get over it cause I stopped.

The arrogant behaviors: Sneaking a look at someone attractive, insisting that they are in total control and do not need filters, defending questionable behavior that is not clearly wrong but definitely risky for a PA, maintaining private accounts...not bad accts but private.

I find all of this to emit a sense of entitlement, being better than others or arrogance.

It's not as easy to feel empathy for someone acting out of arrogance as it is to have supportive feelings for someone who is lacking coping skills.

Arrogance ?

I certainly have seen all those behaviors in my DH at one time or another. I want to believe that the arrogance is a way of coping with the shame, guilt, frustration of acting out or of not being able to stop once an attempt (known or unknown) has been made.

My DH really likes to keep things to himself . . . that has always caused trouble in our marriage because I identify as a couple & think all decisions should be made as a team. However, he identifies as an individual (or Father). So, I struggle to be more independent & he struggles to be open.

Can't wait to see what we learn from counseling :)

[waterlily327]

Hey Maggie, I totally agree with arrogance having a big part in this addiction. I can’t speak for this addiction in relation to others very well, but it does seem to me that this one finds its roots in excuses and arrogance. From what I know, Rock justified his actions on many levels, especially because he never paid for it, “all” guys did it, etc. etc.

I know Rock admitted to me a while back that he thought he could get away with looking at P and talking to other girls because he was “more experienced” in relationships than I was, so he knew what he was doing. He also said that he thought he was better than I was because he knew more about relationships, and that got to his head. Really?!? I don’t think I could find a more perfect example of arrogance in PA than that if I tried! Now, I can look back at that statement and laugh at how ridiculous it is because he no longer thinks like that (also, knowing that even in my naïve state, I was doing a better job staying faithful to our relationship than he was and he now admits that I have taught him a lot about relationships…haha!). Coming into our relationship, I had never dated before unlike him who had been with multiple “hook-ups” and emotionally unhealthy exposures to women in his life at the time. Something about my naivety allowed him to think he could do what he wanted because I wouldn’t doubt him. In the end, when it came out, I didn’t discover what he was doing…he told me out of guilt/fear of losing what we had. At least his arrogance didn’t exempt him from feeling remorse about his actions!

I am sitting next to Rock as I write this post. When he saw I read reading this thread, he pointed to the title and said “absolutely”. At least he acknowledges now that it was a large part arrogance that he used to justify his actions. I am not sure if that goes with all PA’s, because I don’t like to generalize, but from our situation, both Rock and I agree that it played a large part in our breakdown and his return to this addiction. In a relationship, no one person is better than the other. It should be fair, equal, loving…when it is not, those are faults that allow the communication breakdowns and a fractured relationship (in this case it was the disconnect that arrogance caused). Open communication and full dedication by both parties are necessary for success. There is no room for arrogance in any relationship! Great topic Maggie!

[JenMac]

HI Maggie!
I can see where you are coming from with this thread. I can understand why you may think this way. And there may be a lot of great examples of this very thing.
However in my particular case, I would have to say there is not an arrogant bone in Mac's body. It may in fact be the very opposite. I think he may have struggled with some self esteem issues over the years and have felt that his opinion did not count at times.
I won't speak for his experiences but I just know that the man I see is not at all arrogant.
Using excuses to explain P use on discovery I don't think shows arrogance, simply trying to get themselves out of a bad situation and without thinking it through, that is the best they can come up with. 'All men do it' is a pretty lame excuse really anyway. Sounds kind of like a child who is caught doing something they shouldn't be.
Thought provoking thread Maggie!!
Thanks!
Jenn

[waterlily327]

Just to go off of what Jenn said, Rock was also very uncertain, lower self esteem, etc...it was not all arrogance, not by a long shot! He became arrogant in our relationship because it was one area he was confident in: he had more dating experience, so he “knew more about dating”, and that got to his head resulting in arrogance. He is not an arrogant person…in fact, I would never describe him as arrogant outside of this one incident/area in our lives. I guess the point I am trying to make is that while arrogance played a role here, it was not the main factor in his actions…the fact that he was uncomfortable with himself had much more of an impact on his P-use than arrogance. I hope that makes sense…I don’t know if I alluded to other factors in my earlier post well enough. Arrogance did play a role, but it was not the only reason for his PA. (As a disclaimer, I am speaking from my impressions based on our conversations over the past year, not trying to speak for Rock, but he did agree with my post yesterday!) Thanks for your post Jenn, I don’t think this is an issue that can be linked to one factor!

[maggie]

Thanks WayNation,

If a person close to you doesn't understand what you are going thru and then tries to tell you how to deal with your problems it could be seen as an attack and so the response could look arrogant.

That is true. I've been giving that some thought in my own problems. When someone tells me to not let something that has happened bother me, or to get over it etc., I feel as though they do not understand what I'm going through and I may respond in a way that appears arrogant, despite the fact that I'm upset and troubled, not arrogant.

Maybe if you tried to understand what was really bothering the person and not focusing on their use of P, their arrogance would subside. Trying to attack their use of P head on without understanding the underlying reasons for doing so may just be the wrong approach.

Yes. That is true. I can easily see if H was drinking too much or some other acting out behavior to escape his problems, I hope that I would be sensitive and supportive enough to try to help him figure out what was causing his distress and find a better way of coping.
But here's is where this actual behavior sets up a road block. P & M acting out behavior is very insulting and disloyal on a very personal level. Sympathy will never be the first reaction that any female will feel toward a man saving and looking at pictures of other women.
Smpathy & understanding may come in time, but not if there is any trace of arrogance or entitlement.

[maggie]

Thanks Jenn,

Yes, the " all guys do it " excuse in the beginning is probably more of a defensive statement to try and control the damage and does not reflect arrogance.

And yes, from reading Mac's journal it is easy to see that he does not write with arrogance and self-importance, but rather he writes with a strong appreciation for what he has and a sense of humility that he has so much good in his life.

I hesitated beginning this thread because the term ' arrogance ' is a negative term, but I have been reading that ' humility ' the " I don't deserve all the goodness I have " is the polar opposite of
'arrogance ' where enough is never enough and the arrogant person feels that he deserves more and better.

Surprisingly, this comparison between arrogance and humility is always brought up when reading about ' lust '. Always wanting more and more and wanting better, but it is never enough !

Maggie

[JenMac]

Thanks Jenn,

Yes, the " all guys do it " excuse in the beginning is probably more of a defensive statement to try and control the damage and does not reflect arrogance.

And yes, from reading Mac's journal it is easy to see that he does not write with arrogance and self-importance, but rather he writes with a strong appreciation for what he has and a sense of humility that he has so much good in his life.

I hesitated beginning this thread because the term ' arrogance ' is a negative term, but I have been reading that ' humility ' the " I don't deserve all the goodness I have " is the polar opposite of
'arrogance ' where enough is never enough and the arrogant person feels that he deserves more and better.

Surprisingly, this comparison between arrogance and humility is always brought up when reading about ' lust '. Always wanting more and more and wanting better, but it is never enough !

Maggie

Hi Maggie!
I have been pondering your thread the last day or so and have a few thoughts I would like to share with you.
I have been wondering if arrogance can develop as time goes on? Could it also in fact be a defensive mode? As in, if they act toward their SO with arrogance the SO is less likely to push or question what they are doing?
The excuses are a way of minimizing what they are doing and how their SO is feeling. I think that shows a lack of understanding of where they have been and the damage they have caused. If they are continuing to do this then I believe they may be stalled in their recovery. They have not come far enough to really own their responsibility in this. I believe the ownership of this problem, as well as fully understanding the hurt to their SO and the damage they have inflicted on their relationship is indeed a stage of recovery. Once they have come to that place they are showing a deeper level of understanding and remorse for their actions. That in turn assists their partners in their healing immensely.
Always wanting more and more and wanting better, but it is never enough !
I think wanting more and more shows the compulsive/addictive quality of this more than anything else. Seems to be that way with other addictions as well.
Thanks Maggie, as always for for thought!!
Hugs!
Jenn

[cvanden]

My gut reaction is that arrogance most definately plays a role. But I also think that sometimes what looks like arrogance to the SO is really defensiveness, fear and denial.