If you keep doing that you'll go blind...?

[HopefulsRock]

"If you keep doing that you'll go blind" I've thought of that phrase a lot since my recovery and I keep thinking I wish somewhere in my youth someone would have explained just what that actually meant.... I just thought it was a joke. I knew they were talking about MBing but never in a million years did I realize that I would actually become blind to my true emotions, feelings and relationships!

What I am wondering is if or how anyone out there has ever talked to their sons about this or just s*x education in general? Hopeful and I's 3 daughters got some form of s*x education in the 5th grade but the boys got.... absolutely nothing! Just thinking out loud here but maybe that's a big reason why this PA & MB addiction is so predominately a male problem? We have no boys... well till they started coming around our daughters that is.

I would like to hear if anyone out there has talked to there son's or has any insight into this or has anyone ever heard the "going blind" phrase actually explained in detail?

[rosie]

Very interesting HR. I always find such wisdom in passed down phrases, and even jokes - you can really gain so much understanding from these things in my view. I have never specifically thought about the 'going blind' thing, but it does make sense doesn't it. You stop seeing the world as it is...it's like you have tunnel vision...

I have three boys, no girls, and no real understanding of how you 'should' educate them about sexuality. I have always had open (age appropriate) dialogue with them since they were small. I found it important not to use 'cute' names for body parts, etc, or evoke shame around discussing sexual topics - but have always explained the proper functioning of your body and each stage - such as puberty, etc. I have never really had the sex discussion properly, but I have talked about the risks, the dangers, etc in a removed way so they listened instead of being embarrassed.

About porn and MB. I have specifically spoken to my eldest son about it, and at other times I have discussed it in passing and in a non-obvious way with the others - my counsellor told me to use examples of other people and other scenarios, because children automatically reject your own stories and experiences, especially as teens (not sure why!?). My eldest son was looking up pictures on the internet and sexual terms, which I think is pretty normal exploration, but he did happen upon a YT video which was pornographic. I was very upset when I found it, but I used it as an opportunity to discuss the fakeness of it, the fact that it can be addictive, and that the real importance of relationships and feelings, and feeling happy was with other people. I told him he is never allowed to view pornographic things in our home, and since that day, he never has. However, I also installed covenant eyes on all of our computers to ensure that it wasn't possible. I wish I had the talk prior to this, but I didn't know then. I had no idea how easy it was to access, really.

Aside from that, I have always put a big emphasis on equal respect for women and men. I noticed at times that sexist dialogue creeped into my home.. things such as "you're as weak as a girl", "you run like a girl", "don't cry like a girl", "pink is a girl colour", or "dumb blonde jokes", and other such things.
These things were immediately addressed and explained as inappropriate, generalised, and offensive. I didn't know whether or not this worked, but recently I heard my youngest boy explaining to someone that there are no such thing as girl colours, everyone likes different things. I felt pretty chuffed. I guess my point is, that there is a generally accepted dialogue within society that paints one gender below the other and in my view, I think this feeds the use of degrading pornography within our society.

I think it's hard in this day and age where soft porn is basically accepted as normal advertising or entertainment - such as music videos, etc.

I dont know if or how this approach will work out but I hope it does. If anyone else has any good pointers that would be great!

[mell]

Awesome analogy Rock.

I always thought of the blind thing as a joke. An easy way to avoid the taboo subject od s*x and hint that P is not a good thing. But yes we do go blind. Blind to our own needs and the needs and expectations of our loved ones. A blind person sees nothing. When we are acting out, we see nothing, not even the pain and shame we are leading ourselves and our loved ones to.

As far as the education, My boys saw the movies in school. I remember them from my 5th grade days, very scientific. In my experience (my extended family to include cousins, etc) men and boys avoided the real talk like the plague. We all 'knew' we shouldn't do certain things, and we all 'knew' about pregnancy and STD's but it was never discussed.

I remember once, we were in Wal Mart. I must have been about 15 or 16 years old. I was checking out a girl that was walking ahead of us. My father snapped my name and that was it. There was no talk afterwards, no punishment, no anything (and this was from a very strict father!). I stoped ogling, and it was done. In this case, the uncomfortable talk was bypassed. I'm guessing this is the way a lot of men and boys deal (don't deal) with this type of action.

[RMH]

I remember very distinctly in 9th & 10th grade having classes specifically for STD's in health class. In Biology class we watched the miracle of life video (had in 7th grade as well).

My mom couldn't talk to me about Sex and pregnancy, so she took me to a Planned Parenthood class where she sat with me while it was explained to us. It was embarrassing for me.

I have 2 girls and a boy. Right now they are very young, but I already talk to them about not letting other people touch them, etc. As they get older the dialogue will change to sex, pregnancy, and yes I will probably address the P and MB with them as well. P will not be allowed to be viewed in my home in any capacity - there are already codes on the cable and very shortly will be monitoring software on our computer (for SO right now, but later on will be for the kids as well)

As for the term 'if you keep doing that you'll go blind' I've never personally heard it, but then again, I'm female and sex was never discussed with me or my brother growing up. But knowing this - I will certainly incorportate it into our talks when the kids are older.

[rosie]

I read somewhere recently that sociologists believe that jokes are a way of us communicating confronting social issues, and can often be a sign that a new school of thought is emerging into our collective social awareness. They went on to say that sex addict jokes are becoming common which means that the issue is filtering into our awareness and that we should see a social response in the near future. I thought that was fascinating and certainly hope that it's true.

I have heard jokes about "women having headaches" when they don't want sex, and was recently surprised to read that sex is one of the best 'cures' for migraines/headaches. Interesting too.

[Beanhead]

I have two kids, a 13 yr. old son and a 10 yr. old daughter (from a previous marriage). I am very active in their lives and see them often.

I have had several conversations with my son regarding s*x and P. We had the "official" talk about s*x a couple years ago. I simply told him that my father had not shared with me regarding s*x and that I wanted him to hear from me about his issue. I was very upfront with him, using words that were appropriate for an 11 yr old.

I invited questions and when he asked me a couple of questions, I answered clearly and completely. I believe that this gave him confidence to continue to come to me with questions.

As for my daughter, I'm willing to talk with her a well but I think that her mother should be the one who should talk with her. She's in the age when she will start her monthly period soon and they should be talking about this issue.

As for P, I shared with my son that this is a very addictive thing, that it devalues women and that it creates false images of women in our (men's) minds. We talked about the fact that what goes in our minds can stay there and affect us in many ways, ways that we may not even know. I again invited him to ask questions.

This was important because Stillandagain (his step-mom) and I found some questionable activity from when he was using our computer. He admitted that he had looked at a Lego website (targeted for adults -who would think that!) where someones's profile pic was a questionable. So he's seen P in that sense.

Despite my own personal issues with P, I feel that I'm handling it well with my son and keeping the communication open with him.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

Hey Beanhead,

I know having the period talk is not something you would want to do and is best left to your daughter's mother. But don't discount the importance of dad's view on sx and the world. She is going to learn the most from you on how a woman should be treated. I encourage all dads to be open with their views at least on how women should be treated and value themselves and view sx as a gift between people who love each other and not something to give away or for entertainment. I don't think parents should divide "the talk" along gender lines. There's so much to talk about.

On another note, after being here for a year and a half, I still didn't realize that MB could be a problem if there's no P involved. My son is 17 and I assume he has started to MB, but I am fairly certain he isn't into P. I guess his dad should have a talk with him now and then about how we personally view MB and how anything can become unhealthy if it is done compulsively. I will keep talking to him about respect for himself and others and that women are people just like men and not objects.

[Beanhead]

Hey Beanhead,

I know having the period talk is not something you would want to do and is best left to your daughter's mother. But don't discount the importance of dad's view on sx and the world. She is going to learn the most from you on how a woman should be treated. I encourage all dads to be open with their views at least on how women should be treated and value themselves and view sx as a gift between people who love each other and not something to give away or for entertainment. I don't think parents should divide "the talk" along gender lines. There's so much to talk about.

On another note, after being here for a year and a half, I still didn't realize that MB could be a problem if there's no P involved. My son is 17 and I assume he has started to MB, but I am fairly certain he isn't into P. I guess his dad should have a talk with him now and then about how we personally view MB and how anything can become unhealthy if it is done compulsively. I will keep talking to him about respect for himself and others and that women are people just like men and not objects.

I agree with you.

I do make a point of being open with my daughter too, about the roles of men/women and the respect that ought to exist in both directions. I know that modeling good male behavior is vital for my daughter and her view of both men in general and of how men should treat her. This is one of my biggest concerns and motivators for changing my addiction issues and I certainly hope that my efforts in her behalf will benefit her the rest of her life.

[Cupcakemomma]

Well, I've been back for like 8 seconds and already Rock is making me think. The whole sex ed thing is a fun topic around my house... especially with my oldest being right on the puberty line, but I have NO clue how to broach the P and MB issue.... I have a sneaking suspicion they know my stance on P (Ok, OK, they know EXACTLY where I stand, but not because of calm discussion...) but the MB part is tricky....I've been wavering on it for a LONG time.
I think we need to talk about it but does telling them it is a safe alternative to under age sex make me a hypocrite? What if I tell them that the P is NOT a part of it? I dunno, boys are confusing, but honestly, I think I would rather have them throwing out socks with their hairy palms than be a grandma at 27...
YUP, I'm a hypocrite.. LOL
Anyone have any suggestions?

Also, as a side note: I now have something to write in the little "Thoughts and Opinions" box of the survey my monster recently brought home from school regarding the proposed changes to the Sex Ed curriculum regarding MB. Thanks, I love a good chance to look intelligent ROFL