I am not ashamed.

[RootedinGod]

I have had some nice sobriety time nearly a month,
first time in a long .
And I can say I cheated myself by allowing my self to be filled with guilt. Stupid thing to do. I have read allot of ppl feeling shameful and guilty and terrible for their addiction.

That's BS , you are a person with an addiction, not a pedophile, or a rapist. You have a sexual addiction. And you are here for help. You are not a liar, or a thief, you are a product of your addiction. When you work on your recovery you will see you are not what people want you to think. That is not to say you have an excuse, there is none but there is hope in this life and you start with hope.

I decided today to stand up and not be pushed by those that do not understand what and addiction is. We have dealt with enough shame. Its time to be strong and kick this addictions butt.

Addiction does not make you a bad person.
Shed the guilt and let your healing begin.

RIG

[dagaz]

Shed the guilt and let your healing begin.

I've been having the same thought lately - my addiction is rooted in shame and guilt and I think a big step I need to take in my recovery is to talk to someone in real life about it so that I can start to heal the shame and guilt.

[speedway]

Hi guys, here are some quotes from The addictive personality by Craig Nakken. They mean a lot to me, and the book as a whole has helped me to understand who I am and what I was becoming through addictive behaviour. No idea if still in print - it should be! ISBN 1-56838-129-8

Quote

Addiction is in part about shame. Addicts feel shame because of their addiction and because of how they act out. Many people, therefore, enter recovery with a deep sense of shame. Others who enter recovery may not feel any shame at all, believing there is nothing wrong with what they've done. At some time during their recovery, however, these people enter a period of deep shamefulness as they look more honestly at their past actions.

In recovery, we work hard to unravel the knots of shame that have tied us to our addiction, kept us acting out, and perpetuated the addictive process. During recovery, we explore our feelings of shame to understand our addictive logic........

Recovery, we learn, is not about shame. Shame is a judgment we place on our own being, rather than against our actions. Recovery is about allowing us to feel guilt. As recovering people, we need to learn the difference between shame and guilt. Guilt means we have committed an action that was wrong or not helpful to others or to ourselves. We can then think about and correct the offending action, regaining our sense of self-respect. Though we're guilty, we can correct the mistake and be forgiven, and the mistake can be forgotten. (With shame, there is no forgiveness, and nothing is ever forgotten ....

End quote

[rosie]

I agree that shame is very harmful to the addict. That's why there is guilt and shame. But it's important to understand why - If there was no guilt or shame, there is no conscience and there is no internal conflict. If there was no remorse for the hurt caused, there would be no care.

So, in my opinion its healthy that people feel shame and guilt about the damage they have caused to love ones, but to get stuck on it and dwell in it is counter-productive to recovery.

If you can't face the hurt and shame you have caused, you are not dealing with your addiction honestly in my opinion.

Addiction doesn't make you a bad person, but the ramifications and the hurt caused makes you accountable and it means that you have more than mere recovery to attend to.

Interesting that you single out rapists and paedophiles - because from the literature I have read on sex addiction, most also qualify as being sex addicts in more extreme cases of the addiction.

Shed the guilt and let your healing begin.

Yes, great advice.

[grasshopper]

I believe I was actually addicted to shame in a way. The shame becomes a form of insulation that stops me from feeling legitimate guilt. I call up in a ball and hate myself. It stops me from examining myself. I can't bear to look at myself when I am in shame. Moreover, when I am steeped in shame, it allows me to act out because I think of myself as exactly the sort of despicable 8astard who would do such a thing. Shame, as I feel it, has no place in my recovery.

Guilt is not the same to me. If I am guilty, why should I plead not guilty? Guilt is a legitimate acknowledgment of my wrong behaviour. It's a feeling. Feel it. The addiction will do what it can to stop me from acknowledging that I have done wrong, but it is a liar.

I plead guilty. I accept the consequences. I get to see what my behaviour does to those around me. I am not ashamed of myself. In fact, I earn my own respect by standing up and owning my own crap.

[rosie]

Interesting GH, i had another theory about shame...and acting out. I actually experienced it myself recently and had a light bulb moment.

It goes like this; When you feel a deep sense of shame - from childhood, just like any other negative emotions that are closed off, they need to breathe, to have a voice, to be given an outlet, to be felt.

Sometimes I think that we spend so much time avoiding our feelings or being disembodied (as per Buddhists) that we need to find outlets for this shame and negativity within. I believe on some level that we try to recreate feelings of shame in order to experience this shame in order to give it a voice, in order to let it out and to feel it. I guess in a similar way to how we create happy experiences surrounding smells, sounds, and other emotive/sensual stimuli to recreate situations in the past that allow us to re-experience those emotions.

Unfortunately though I think with addiction that we get stuck in the shame and unfortunately each time you act out, there is more shame added to the pile - so it becomes a mountain to move through instead of small daily maintenance.

My counsellor taught me mindfulness, meditation, and connecting with your gut/body, being present in order to release/process negative emotions and to deal with shame. At times when I am stressed and forget to do this day to day, I find myself wanting to act in addictive or degrading ways and I think it's your bodies way of allowing the feelings to be felt, experienced, and released.

Just a crackpot theory I have. ;) Would like to know if it resonates at all...

[chasman62]

Sorry RiG but I am really struggling to understand where all the anger is coming from in your posts.

I also think that you are confusing shame and guilt over the behaviors that we as 'addicts' have indulged in and the pain we have caused others with 'shame and guilt' over things in our lives that led us down this path in the first place. Don't mistake cause for effect.

For myself, I am profoundly ashamed at what I did. I have shared that with other people (my SO obviously and several very close friends). I made those decisions, I manipulated the bank accounts and credit card bills, and I made all those plans to meet someone....nobody else did. I am not a split personality. But just as I am ashamed at what I did in the past I am proud of what I am creating into the future. I am committed to eliminating that crap from my life (and I have) and to being a better, more responsive, more engaged human being. I am quite frankly tired of our excuse culture that keeps giving people a free pass for stuff that they need to unequivocally take ownership of.

[BeingThere]

I understand the anger. I think it is a natural stage in recovery. I went through it. I believe it was me rebelling against the addiction itself and against those that would have me stuck in it forever.

Recoveryism teaches that you're always an addict. Might be helpful for those with alcohol dependency, but not for sexual or eating addictions. It's not like you can never take a bite of food for the rest of your life or that you should go without sex for the next 70 years. You're not always an addict.

I finally came to the conclusion that shame and guilt serve absolutely no purpose beyond about 10 seconds. We talk about them as if they are necessary motivators. That is only because we aren't fully conscious of everything involved.

Guilt and shame inherently lead to a thoughts along the line of "I wish I had" or "if I could do it again" or "I wish I could undo". These thoughts are a complete waste of time and energy and tie us to the addiction. Seriously, show me one person that has gone back in time and changed a single thing. What a waste. The only thing these emotions do is destroy the present. And we need the present to break free from the addiction.

I hear "if I had it to do over again, I would ...<insert whatever remorseful thought you want>". B*$$hi#!! You would do EXACTLY the same thing. Exactly. Why? Because if you went back in time, you would have the exact same reference as you did when you did it the first time. You would just be endlessly repeating the same thing.

Shame is a controlling device. People use it on each other to elicit desired behaviours. It is a device used to imprison us, not set us free. It is also one of the primary mechanisms behind the lying and hiding behaviors in addiction. The consequences of disclosure include a level of shame that most can't deal with.

Even worse is the fact that shame actually keeps us firmly linked to whatever act we're ashamed of.

I am deeply grateful for my porn addiction. It was the only way. It was on my path and was something I had to go through to get where I am. Yes, it was painful. Yes, I felt shame and worthlessness. I felt like scum and was told that's what I was by countless people. It was part of my identity. I was a scumbag porn addict. Along with that, you can imagine all kinds of disgusting images, labels, and categories. But through all of that, I have grown in ways that would not have been possible for me otherwise.

The next thought that most would have would be about the people I hurt in the process. That was on their path as well. It is something they need to deal with. I could not in a million years deal with it for them. I have given them my sincere apologies and offered them what I could by way of understanding, but I cannot ever "fix" it for them. And no amount of remorse or shame will do that. They are the ones that need to fix that part of it. I cannot carry the burden of their problems because I can do nothing about it. I'm not abdicating reponsibility; I merely stating a fact.

Responsability. Now theres a word bantered about with multiple meanings. Am I responsible for someone else's pain. If I caused the pain, then you can say that. But again, without a time machine, it does no good to sit around and be responsible. It can't be undone.

But I see responsibility in a different light. I see it as carrying the burden of only what you can control. I was kidnapped and sexually molested for about 12 hours when I was a kid. Poor f**king me. No WONDER I'm a porn addict. Look at all the issues I have to deal with. BULLSHIZA!!! That is the very thing that will never let me heal. I am 100% responsible for how I deal with that incident and all the others. Nobody can EVER accept responsibility for me. It is MY life and no one can live it for me. So long as I hang onto that as a victim, my life will never be free from it. I am not a victim of anything. There are no unwilling victims.

As for shame and guilt, some people feel they need these things in their life. Do they make you feel good? Do you enjoy them? Great. I don't. They are de-motivators for me and I refuse to feel them. If I make a mistake, I will take the best steps I can find to correct it and not make the same mistake again. I don't need shame and guilt to do that.

We are here to experience the beauty, magnificence, and grandeur of creation. Addictions, shame, and guilt are distractions on that path. But that's OK. We'll experience those too. Difficulties, pain, and sadness serve only to accentuate the beauty of this existence, like shadows cast from the mountains in the morning sun. To that extent, maybe shame and guilt are good because we feel so much better when they're gone.

-Mike

[Phil413]

Hi RIG,

I haven't been able to figure out where you're coming from. You sound . . . defiant, I guess. Like you're trying to stand up to someone, or refute what someone's saying to you or about you. I feel like I'm coming in on the tail end of a conversation. For example, you said, "I decided today to stand up and not be pushed by those that do not understand what and addiction is." I really have no idea who you think is pushing you.

I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points here. I hope you don't feel I'm pushing you; I don't intend to. I'm just a fellow PA with a different opinion on some things.

For instance, you seem to think that feeling guilt and shame is unnatural, as if it's a disorder of some kind. I don't agree. I think the feeling of guilt and shame is a normal and healthy reaction to doing things that are shameful. In my opinion, guilt is to the soul what pain is to the body. When you put your hand on a hot stove, the pain tells you not to do that again. Likewise, if you have a properly formed conscience, violating that conscience produces feelings of guilt that, hopefully, motivate you not to repeat that behavior.

That said, feelings of guilt and shame aren't supposed to be permanent. We go to God and receive forgiveness. We amend our lives and try again.

You have a sexual addiction. And you are here for help. You are not a liar, or a thief, you are a product of your addiction.

You're wrong. I am a liar. I've lied my butt off to my wife, time and time again. I've even lied to myself. And I'm a thief, too. I've stolen something precious from my wife. I've robbed her of the trust she should have in her husband; I've stolen from her the security she needs to feel safe in her marriage; I've taken the passion and energy that rightfully belongs to her, and I've spent it on images of strangers. I am a thief of the worst sort.

Shed the guilt and let your healing begin.

I'm always a little wary when people say things like that. Do you regard guilt as something that's pushed on you by others? Or do you see it as a healthy reaction to the commission of shameful acts? I regard it as the latter, and I don't shed it by pretending it's not there, or that it shouldn't be there, or by acting as if it's something that's foisted on me by others. I shed it by going to God in confession with true contrition for my shameful behavior, and a firm intention not to repeat that behavior. Then I receive his forgiveness and begin again.

Phil

[Charly22]

Do you regard guilt as something that's pushed on you by others? Or do you see it as a healthy reaction to the commission of shameful acts? I regard it as the latter, and I don't shed it by pretending it's not there, or that it shouldn't be there, or by acting as if it's something that's foisted on me by others. I shed it by going to God in confession with true contrition for my shameful behavior, and a firm intention not to repeat that behavior. Then I receive his forgiveness and begin again.

Phil

But, what if, when you shed your guilt/shame and was ready to begin again...there was someone there calling you disgusting? Someone there judging you? Even though YOU know you have made proper adjustments, and yet there they are....pointing a finger...calling you disgusting...calling you a pervert....judging you, continually.

It takes encouragement to keep pushing.

I am reminded of a father who tells his son, who really did try to swing the bat, and missed the ball, and the father telling him how awful he is, how disappointed he is, and that he'll never be a good baseball player. And the boy hanging his head, not finding some encouragement to keep trying.