what makes it worth it?

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

The worth it ratio
What makes it worth it to stick it out with a partner who does not choose active recovery? What is the "worth it" ratio?

For SOs-

If your partner is a P/SA for 5 years, but chooses recovery and you spend the next 25 years happy and faithful, will you consider it worth it? What about if he has been this way for 10 years, then chooses recovery but dies in a year? Would it have been worth it to work it out? Would 1 good year make the 10 bad years worth it? What about if your partner was in recovery for 1 week. You spend years on the merry go round, but then you had one week of total truth, connection, and love? Would it be worth it to have stayed? What is your "worth it" ratio? At what point does it look like a lose-lose proposition if your partner chooses P/SA instead of recovery? Everyone has a different threshhold.

For P/SAs-

What is your "worth it" ratio? How do you decide, today, I am going to look at P, chat, etc, because my desire for it is worth more than my integrity and worth more than my partner's emotional well being? How do you decide, its worth it right now? What would make you change your mind?

Most of the PAs here are VERY lucky that their partners "worth it" ratio works completely differently than yours. You choose, or did choose, consistently, that what YOU want is worth more than everything else, and worth more than your partner's love. You choose/chose consistently, that it is worth it to risk losing your relationship, or at the very least damaging it so it and your partner become sad and unrecognizable. While your partner holds on, because they feel that if you would just choose recovery NOW, then the bad years would have been worth it.

[Phil413]

What is your "worth it" ratio? How do you decide, today, I am going to look at P, chat, etc, because my desire for it is worth more than my integrity and worth more than my partner's emotional well being? How do you decide, its worth it right now? What would make you change your mind?

You mustn't think of a P relapse as a cold-blooded decision arrived at through a weighing of costs and benefits. It doesn't work that way. It's more like the "decision" you make to scratch a mosquito bite even though you know scratching it only makes it worse. Ultimately, you scratch it, not because you "decide" to, but because it itches so bad you feel like you'll go nuts if you don't.

Phil

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

Phil-

It is still a decision. There are a lot of decisions that go into scratching that itch "without thinking" about it.

To cite a few from this forum:

Buy a new phone, with internet this time
Disable the monitoring software on the internet
buy a new computer
go across the street to an internet cafe
skip the meeting
don't call the sponsor
pick a fight with your partner, because then you have an excuse
etc...

There is a lot of thought that goes into this "mindless" behavior.

Let's make it more simple.

I am a PA. I see my partner cry, threaten to leave me and take my kids. I tell my partner, I am sorry and I will do whatever it takes. Then I choose to do nothing. So, I make sure that whenever that "itch" comes, I can choose ti scratch it, because I want to and I choose not to quit.

I agree that there is a lot of mindlessness and not thinking in all of this. But, I do not agree that there is no choice. I do agree that there is not a cold blooded decision to just hurt your partner. But, this again is because the PA refuses to think, and if they choose not to think about it, then they are not really choosing to be hurtful, it just happens.

Again, P/SAs who don't choose recovery, choose P because it is worth it to them, in spite of everything.

I am thankful my husband chose recovery. He could have made sure that there were no barriers in place so he could just mindlessly go back, but he put physical and mental barriers between him and P. Right now, my P to marriage ratio is 9:1. I am still working on my recovery. I will let you know in a few years if its worth it.

[Phil413]

It is still a decision. There are a lot of decisions that go into scratching that itch "without thinking" about it.

To cite a few from this forum:

Buy a new phone, with internet this time
Disable the monitoring software on the internet
buy a new computer
go across the street to an internet cafe
skip the meeting
don't call the sponsor
pick a fight with your partner, because then you have an excuse
etc...

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your original question. I thought you were talking about someone who was serious about recovery, had taken appropriate precautions to put P out of reach, and was following a plan to avoid or resist temptations, yet still relapsed. The behavior you listed above is obviously premeditated and does indicate a deliberate decision to plunge back into P. Why someone would do that, I have no idea. Maybe someone else can answer that question for you.

Let's make it more simple.

I am a PA. I see my partner cry, threaten to leave me and take my kids. I tell my partner, I am sorry and I will do whatever it takes. Then I choose to do nothing. So, I make sure that whenever that "itch" comes, I can choose ti scratch it, because I want to and I choose not to quit.

In that situation, if the PA "does nothing," I suppose it would indicate that he either has no idea what to do, or he seriously underestimates how difficult it will be to quit because he thinks he can just decide to give it up and that'll be that, or he has no intention of quitting and is just trying to placate his wife. There may be other interpretations, but those are the only ones I can come up with off the top of my head.

Phil

[Cupcakemomma]

That is a seriously tough question. Can I plead the 5th? I really just don't have an answer.

[rosie]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your original question. I thought you were talking about someone who was serious about recovery, had taken appropriate precautions to put P out of reach, and was following a plan to avoid or resist temptations, yet still relapsed. The behavior you listed above is obviously premeditated and does indicate a deliberate decision to plunge back into P. Why someone would do that, I have no idea. Maybe someone else can answer that question for you.

Thank you. Exactly my thoughts! ~X(

I obviously don't know the answer either WONLM. My first response when reading your question... "What makes it worth it". I would tend to say.. NOTHING.
However, since I have stayed for so long, despite this crap, I would say that the hope of him returning to the nice guy he used to be, enmeshment, and fear of divorce made me stay. But nothing made it worth it.

It's not worth it. It's horrible. But, then. I have never been on the recovery end of things. Some men in here seem amazing after going through recovery - so maybe that would make it worth it?

[BeingThere]

I don't think there is an answer to this question that someone else can give you. I know that's not what you want to hear, but I think you are the only one that can make this decision.

I do believe that much of the decision ends up being about finding your own self-respect and boundaries. Sometimes we forget the relationship is about us too. If we're not happy, how can our partner be happy? I believe relationships are designed to be great, not just OK. We learn more and progress more in a relationship than we do out of it, but that doesn't mean we hang onto it forever.

There are pros and cons. We can make a balance sheet and try to weigh the sides against each other. Though I think that's a useful through process, I don't think that's what it's about. I think it's about admitting that we deserve to seek happiness, peace, and continue to grow. It's about deciding that we're done being abused and that we're willing to make a very difficult sacrifice, if necessary, to achieve that. It really is about self-respect.

It's not always the SO that makes the decision that it's over, but that is probably the case most of the time. When I say self-respect, I'm not limiting that to the SO. That goes equally for the addict.

I have to say that some relationships won't survive or be great even without the sexual addiction. That's a very importan thing to consider. Think (honestly) about the relationship without the addiction. Is it everything you want it to be? Could it be everything you want it to be? Do you even know what you want it to be?

Then there's the consideration of personal damage. Relationships are so intimate and feelings run so deeply that there may never be a good healing. Also consider that it may take 5 to 10 years AFTER sobriety for the relationship to actually heal to the point of being good. How much time do you have? And after it has healed, will the relatiohship be able to be what you both want it to be?

I realize there are more questions here than answers. As a matter of fact, there are no answers here.

This is a process of discovery. A very painful process. But we don't have any choices. We're here. We have to deal with it one way or another. Not making a decision is making a decision.

-Mike

[rosie]

Think (honestly) about the relationship without the addiction. Is it everything you want it to be? Could it be everything you want it to be? Do you even know what you want it to be?

In my case, I think so much of the addiction is currently him so that his "real self" is incredibly hard to distinguish from the addiction-him. I see so many things that I feel are impacted upon by the addiction..for example: My husband doesn't spend much quality time with our children any more. I see this as a symptom of the addiction. His main priority has become the addiction and everything else pales in comparison.

So, I am thinking that if he got rid of the addiction, maybe too many of the bad aspects of his behaviour will also change when he reconnects with his value system.

[BeingThere]

The addiction affects us for sure, but from my observations, it doesn't cause most of the problems. In other words, I'm not sure getting rid of the addiction would change your husband's behavior all that much. This is one of the big let-downs in recovery. The addiction may be more of a symptom than the actual affliction. At least, it was in my case and in the cases of numerous other addicts I have seen. I've heard numerous remarks from SO's that even though their husband is sober, they're still a jerk. And the most common one is that the SO doubts the addict's sobriety because the addict's outward actions haven't changed all that much. I believe we get our hopes up that curing addiction will cure everything else. There is a myth that porn addiction is the cause of all evil. Flat out not true. As a matter of fact, it is the cause of very little. The issue is what is causing the porn addiction.

That said, the process of getting rid of the addiction may very much change your husband's behavior, not because his behavior is due to the porn addiction but because he will have to change himself in the process. Recovery is about learning how to live. Living in and fully enjoying a relationship and family is part of life ... a wonderful part.

I know first-hand that someone can connect with their children even in the midst of a raging porn addiction. And maybe connecting with his children would be good therapy for him in his battle. It would draw him outside of that tiny little world that has him encased.

Wishing you comfort in the wait.

-Mike

[rosie]

Thanks Mike. I guess, I see it as if over the years, the addiction has consumed him more and more as time goes on. He used to spend far more quality time with the children, but now it is less so.

The addiction seems to make him completely self absorbed. I could always tell when he was (honestly) abstinent because he would be so engaged. But when he is using P/acting out, he is like a self-absorbed zombie with no desire to engage with anyone or anything.

I agree with you about the benefit of connecting with the children :) It is so positive and nurturing.

I also want to note - not sure how relevant it is, but I would say my husbands addiction is definitely not "just" porn. It has..progressed in every way to a sex addiction. Maybe that is why he is so much more 'stuck' in it. Not sure.